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by amberwolf
Apr 27 2017 3:11am
Forum: E-Bike Technical
Topic: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier
Replies: 999
Views: 149098

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

With limited time, I decided to simplify the front triangle wiring covers, and just use more of that 1/4" thick "foamed" plastic.
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The right side is riveted directly to the frame, as that has the chainrings on that side, and would be harder to work on stuff in there anyway.
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The left side uses rivnuts in the frame (which are damned hard to install),
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with teh plastic cover bolted to the frame.
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To be able to take the cover off completely, I'd have to either cut a slot in the cover, or take the pedal off the crank (Easy enough with a wrench I have with me in my toolkit anyway), but I would usualy only need to take off the bolts, and then slide the cover down the crank and lean it on the pedal. Then I can access any of the wiring in the frame area there, which hopefully won't be needed except at upgrades. :)

I havent' needed to access it since the rewiring, so I could probably have just popriveted the left side on, too...but if I did need to access it at roadside, that would have been annoying to have to get off of there.

While I was at it, I popriveted the main cutoff switch and the XLR charging port into place, but I swapped their positions since my toes sometimes hit the switch housing when I get on or off the trike. It's not much more clearance, but it's enough.
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I need to make a bracket to rivet to the frame that will let me mount the lighting switches to it.

While I had the cranks off to install the side covers, I swapped them out for some non-ovoid regular 28/38/48 rings (also 170mm cranks),
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because while the Shimano BioPace stuff works great on a regular bike at the angle the cranks are at to my legs/body, they actually make it harder to pedal at the angle everything is at on the trike. I'd need to rotate the ovoid part around something like 30-40 degrees (at a guess) to get the same effect as I'd have on a regular bike.
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The round cranks let me pedal it quite a bit easier, even with the same tooth counts. I could also take the derailer (used as a tensioner only) off the IGH input, if I didn't want to be able to change the front gears (by hand, no derailer).

I was going to add the locks to the seatbox, but couldnt' find the hasps and stuff I was going to use for that, will have to continue the search tomorrow. (part of the reason for the time-off this week is organization). I have an alternative, though, but I have to come up with a few bits and pieces to be able to actually lock them.

Was also going to mount one of the HLG chargers under the trike on the battery side, but I ran out of time due to the above search.

That also left me without time to add switchable LED lights on the bottom of the seatbox cover to light it up inside, so I can see what I'm doing in there at roadside or any other dark situation.

Ditto on replacing the rightside reflector, which went away with the short boards on the right rear corner, whcih were replaced yesterday.

I'm considering adding a stiffening frame to the outer edges/bottom of the seatbox cover, made of L-shaped metal formerly part of a shelving/cart unit. It's heavy steel, though, and would add a few pounds to the trike. If I can find something thinner/lighter, I'll probably do it, but probably not with this stuff.
by amberwolf
Mar 19 2017 8:40pm
Forum: E-Bike Technical
Topic: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier
Replies: 999
Views: 149098

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Today I got the sprocket fixed, on the IGH input.

Basically, the way I had it assembled before, the sprocket was held in place only by the clamping force of the bolts holding the sprocket pressing against washers on the bolts between the original input sprocket and the larger one actually being used.

This is because the original sprocket "domes up" where it connects to the IGH, and the larger sprocket's ID is smaller than that dome, so it rests on it, but is not secured by it.

This means that as the torque pulls on the sprocket, it can pull it off-center; this is what happened the other day. Then the bolts were far enough off on one side that the washers popped out from between the sprocket,s and allowed it to get so far off center it rubbed on teh wood panel behind it and then as it rotated jammed against the dropout frame holding the IGH.

To fix this, I used the angle grinder to carefully alter the shape of the inner circumference of the sprocket, so that instead of being a flat disc with about 1mm thickness, it is now shaped opposite the dome of the other sprocket, coming to a blade-thin edge on the ID, so it will now sit flat against hte face of the other sprocket, and can't shift around as long as the bolts are tight.

So the bolts were then reinstalled silghtly differently, as well, so they sit against the "back" edges of the holes in the larger sprocket, so when the chain pulls it against the other sprocket and bolts, the bolts will tighten against it in all four spots.

WIth the sprocket centered like it should be, and is now, and was to start with, it's easy to pedal around the yard, even over several-inch-diameter pieces of palm frond ends that the dogs use for chewtoys, and the 2.5"-3" pieces of mulberry branch they also chew on, and thru the 4"+ deep holes Kirin enjoys leaving here and there.

With it offcenter by the 1/2" or more after the failure, it was very hard to pedal, not because of drag or rubbing, so not sure of exact cause, but assuming that it was because of the offcenteredness?

Anyway, it's fixed now, and hopefully stays that way. I'll have to recheck teh bolts/etc after some rides where I use it in lowest gear to help startup from a stop just before I hit the throttles, so it gets the most torque on it as often as I can manage it.

Other than that, been resting and doing yard work today--wassupposed to be around 94F for a high, but it was already that hot by noon, and got up to 98F, and not back down to 94F again until a couple of hours ago. It's only dropped below 90F a little after 6pm, and is now only down to 89F :(
by amberwolf
Mar 17 2017 1:42am
Forum: E-Bike Technical
Topic: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier
Replies: 999
Views: 149098

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

SOmething wierd today, just about 1/8 mile from home on the way to work: throttle on the left motor wouldn't "stay engaged", or rather, the motor would stop responding in a way that almost felt like it was braking for just an instant and then coast. The right motor kept working normally.

Then I stopped at the 4-way stop and...nothing. No response from either motor.

I already had it shifted into the lowest gear for pedalling so I tried to pedal across the intersectin to get out of hte way of hte cars behind me, but the pedals "stuck" about 1/4 revolution, as if the chain was caught on something. Kept having ot rotate backwards and then forwards, rocking it until I got across and stopped at the curb.

I checked everything in the motor, controller, and throttle path, but couldnt' find a problem. Voltage fine from battery, etc., vmin on CA was normal, so wasn't a sag under load problem.

Too hot in the sun (95F in the shade under the canopy!) to keep troubleshooting there, so I needed to head back home to work in teh shade there. Pedal problem turned out to be that the bolted-on gear on the IGH's input gear is off-center, and the bolt on the most-offset side was sticking out far enough to get stuck on the frame there.

While I was fiddling with taht, a gentleman parked in front of me and asked if I needed help; we talked a bit as I worked; he's a fan of the trike and the dogs (sees me going donw the road a fair bit), but there wasn't really anything he could do to help.

I eventually just took that bolt out and pedalled as far as I could manage, about halfway home, then I simply had to get off and push it the rest of the way; it hurt less to do that.

I flipped the trike on it's side and checked out voltages and wiring all around the controller area and handlebars, etc., everything was fine, except hte ebrake line was enabled, even though the lever did not appear to be pulled.

So the reason for the stop was taht the heat must be affecting the springiness of the lever; I've had this problem before with ebrake switches taht are not connected to any cables, jsut used bare, and had to use springs or rubber bands to keep them pulled "off". So I did that with thsi and fixed the rightmotor problem.

But the left motor stil has the cutout problem. What specifcally happens is that the first second or so it'll work, then cutout. if I release and reengage throtttel, it'll work again for a second or two (variies, and again, and again, until I reach a bit more than 7-8MPH, or sometimes 12-13MPH (varies).

It is not an amp limit thing...cuz it does the same thing by itself or with the other motor also pulling.

It is not a speed thing.

It isn't likely a hall thing, though I'll need to check with a scope on the hall lines to verify there isn't some noise there. Halls are soldered so isn't a connector issue.

it isn't a phase connection thing on the andersons; checked and verified those are ok and fully seated, not backed out or bent or anything.

I'm too tired still from being sick with some flu or cold the last two or or th4ree weeks now, plus a new sinus infection I'm working on getting over, so not sure I can deal with the probelm until my next days off early next week.

There's alsoa fender rattle in front that I can't find and it' really annoying; it only stops during left turns, so when the wheel is pressed a bit in that direction--nothing is touching anything, nothing is just gonna have to play with it and figure out the issue....later.
by amberwolf
Jan 25 2017 1:21pm
Forum: E-Bike Technical
Topic: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier
Replies: 999
Views: 149098

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

The wiring fire destruction is actually pretty hard to see, but here's the best pics I could get of it (the others were so blurry you can't even tell they are wires).
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This is the new wiring harness, with the main cable sheath stripped off a few inches at the ends. You can see how much larger the cable and wires are than the above. (the orignal stuff was so thin I couldn't evne use my wire strippers on it, and had to carefully use an old notched-from-misuse dull knife; it was thinner than the wire-wrap wire I've used before).
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Some pics of the trike as it is at the moment, with some of the red paint touched up with the new (much brighter red) paint, and the wood on the seatbox almost completed. All that's left on the seatbox is to shape and add the last board at the bottom of the left side. That is filled with styrofoam for now, even though the weather is supposed to be good the next sveral days, so that I can use the comparment on that side to carry all the heavy stuff I'd usually have in the trunk to see how it rides with no real weight up there.
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The "new" front fender with Grin light on the front. It's actually the same fender I started out with, though mounted slightly differently. I have some plastic sheets cut to shape to fit in it and cover the top of the wheel on the sides, but I think I am going to use wood instead, if I can cut these boards to about 1/3 of their present thickness so they'll fit between the wheel and the fork.
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SOme night pics of the lighting, first with all the lights on, then with the headlight off, then with that and downlighting off, then with headlight and just regular lighting, no downlighting. Lets you see just how much difference the downlighting makes in visibility. Need to take the same pics on a typical street I ride on sometime but would have to do it really late at night when there's zero traffic.
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Headlight off, all other lights on
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Headlight and downlighting off, main lights on
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Headlight and main lights on, downlighting off
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Another thing done the night of the wiring fire I'd forgotten to post about was reinstalling the repaired main chain from IGH to trike's transfer axle input sprocket. Because the freewheel issue still is not fixed I did not reinstall the chain from the output sprocket to the FW, so there is a lot less load on the motor wheel (no chain to backdrive).

Something else I hadn't even noticed before when putting that wheel on after "lowering" the dropout end stop is that that short chain is under extreme tension, because I did not make the end dropout shallow enough on the inboard side (the outboard side is fine), so the chain was acutally holding the wheel while I tightned the clamping dropout to secure the axle...leaving the chain so tight that it probably took significant power to drive it. (and would cause a lot of rapid wear on it).

To fix this I might need to fix the inboard dropout, but without the chain it sits very close to where it was with the chain, might be less than a millimeter. Using hte halflink in this chain would also fix the issue, but it might be too loose that way. I'll have to figure that out after I get the MXUS 3K wheel in there (once that's built).

For now, it's running with no pedal chain to the wheel itself, so there is no motor loading other than driving the trike.

Apparently it makes quite a difference in power usage:

Some ride data with the smaller pack (saving a little more than 20lbs) with tightened intercell connections, for my work commute yesterday. It's a lot less than a simlar test the other day, and leads me to believe long-trip (less stops per mile) usage would also be a lot less.

20.2MPH max
14.4MPH avg
18m28s triptime
2040miles total odo

It was also pretty cold the night before (below 40F for a few hours), so even with the trike in the shed, the pack was pretty cold, likely making voltage sag worse than normal. At a guess the pack might have been 50F at best when I started out. On the way home it might've been warmer, having sat inside at work for a few hours, where it was about 60F or so in the breakroom.
by amberwolf
Jan 22 2017 7:18pm
Forum: E-Bike Technical
Topic: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier
Replies: 999
Views: 149098

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Got the left side cover almost done, ran out of wood glue and the sanding belt broke again (I've been just regluing it but without glue I can't; wood glue is the only stuff that holds it for any length of time; need the glue for the wood itself too).

So it was time for a trip to a store to go get some glue, and while there I also got a pack of new belts in a finer grade (120 vs 50) so I dont' take off several millimeters at a stroke :lol:

Figured I'd get more red paint while there so I could finish up the paintjob, but there wasnt' any of the cheap stuff in red anymore at any place I went. They all now only carry white and black, no colors. Had to get the more expensive stuff, which I've found generally isn't that much better than the cheapest, but costs four times as much. :(

Since it was on the way home anyway, I also stopped at Gordy's Bicycles to see if they had the freewheel tool (no but they'll be getting some eventually), a half-link (no), and a master link for BMX (no). But they did have a heavy-duty BMX type chain that didnt' cost a fortune (though $13 is a lot to me), and it does have a master link in it, *and* though they didn't know this and I didn't notice till I got home and unpacked the stuff from the trike, it also has a half-link. :) They also took the master link out of another box for me, too, since I needed two and they didnt' have any others.

The chain itself is not long enough by far to make the whole chain for the trike, but it is enough to make a new one for the last stage, and have plenty left over for adding to a second such chain I'll get later on to replace the worn old stuff I have from the IGH to the rest of the trike (since this is the part that bears the most torque load, other than the one from trike to wheel). For now I'm just going to repair the existing chain with some new links in the damaged area, and make the new last-stage chain. Both of these will get master links, and the halflink will be used on the last-stage chain if I need to for the smaller freewheel I think I have on the MXUS.

I didn't get all the trip data, becuase the CA "forgot" some of it (after having saved it correctly before, then about halfway thru at one of the stops I powered it off for, it didn't remember any of the previous stats). So I only have data for about the last half of the trip, though the data is pretty much the same as what I'd seen up to that point.

11.14miles (around 20miles actual total trip distance)
14mph avg
47m33s (closer to 1.5 hours actual triptime)

Total odo now 2036 miles on the trike. About 30 miles total on the new configuration.

It was cold and windy for teh whole trip, though it had been sunny before that and it is getting clear out there right now (but is almost sunset so is not "sunny" and is getting even colder), so I had to come in and warm up and rest my hands before I try to tackle anything else (probably starting iwth the MXUS drilling/lacing since I can't take the FW off the other motor to fix it's problem).
by amberwolf
Jan 21 2017 10:20pm
Forum: E-Bike Technical
Topic: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier
Replies: 999
Views: 149098

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Front, back, top bottom, and right side are built (not totally finished). Just one more side to make for the cargo compartment, though I still have to finish the bottom edges of each wall to prevent ingress there, as a whole board won't fit in that gap, so I have to cut something that will fill it (preferably that I have to tap into place with a rubber mallet, so it seals better and also compresses the boards above more, ensuring a better fit all around).
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Added a temporary seat from a disassembled desk chair; it's seat is just strapped to the deck with a cargo strap, and the back's supports are screwed to the deck to keep it from falling off but it is really held in place by me resting against it, pinning it to the rack behind it. I ddint' try strapping it to the rack because in it's present mode it can simply all be lifted off the cargo compartment / seat box, to allow access to the inside of that.
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Unfortunatley I didn't get enough stuff done soon enough to make it over to Jabotical's to deliver a new (used) front wheel to replace his bent-from-a-crash one, but he'd already ordered a new one anyway, due within a week, so he'll probably get that one before I could get over there (since my next days off don't coincide with his).

So I continued working on the trike, and got the chargers (2 HLGs plus the Satiator) bolted to the cargo/seat box floor on the left side, and two of the batteries (14s2p x 2, for 80Ah total, or about 4kwh+) stacked on their sides in the righthand box area.
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I tested the whole thing for a couple miles ride around the neighborhood, at 15-18MPH, with one short run at 20MPH...but the noise at 20 from the chain being backdriven is abominable, and sounds like a small gas engine underneath me. :( It's pretty bad even at 18, but much worse at 20 for some reason. At 15 it's almost tolerable, but wouldn't be for long. To actually use the trike with the FW problem I'd have to take the chain from the motor to the trike's output sprocket off, and only put it on if I couldn't use the motors for some reason and had to pedal home.

It takes over 80Wh/mile for this ride, probalby partly due to the many stops and starts, because of the heavier weight with the extra pack on there plus the chargers (total of probably 35-40lbs more).
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Then I broke the main chain, between the IGH and the trike's transfer axle, because of the nonfreewheeling freewheel. I was running the motor off ground so that I could test to see if there'd be any problems just running it for a good while, when after a few minutes I began to hear a noise I didn't like, and before I could reach the throttle to turn it off, the chain snapped. Not surprised, as I was running it like this to ensure if it did fail it'd do it at home and not on a ride.
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So I will definitely have to find that stupid splined freewheel removal tool. After it got dark out there I spent almost a couple of hours more searching for it. Found some other stuff including the hinges I want to use on the compartment cover, but not the tool. I still have a few places to look, but I think it's a better bet to just go get a new one.

Before I do that, I'm going to get the drill press setup and drill out the new smaller spoke holes on the MXUS, and get it laced up using the old 9C wheel parts. Then I won't need the freewheel tool to use the trike, at least, though I'll still need it to fix the FW problem on the HSR3548 before I put it back on CB2. (though it matters less on CB2 as I can't really pedal it anyway, as I ahve to pedal so slowly taht I can't really balance it at that speed).

And Yogi said it was boring.
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by amberwolf
Jan 18 2017 12:51am
Forum: E-Bike Technical
Topic: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier
Replies: 999
Views: 149098

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

The freewheel-not-freewheeling problem came back today, and while it did "fix" for a minute with teh chainwhip stuff, it came right back and didnt' fix after that.

Since I don't know where the fw removal tool is (wasted another hour looking for it again, eliminated a bunch more places it could be), the best option I have to deal with it and still have a pedal drivetrain is to tension up the chain from the IGH output to the trike's transfer axle, so it doesn't bounce around while riding at cruising speed and derail, or jam and break.

Tensioning it up was easy, by loosening the IGH nuts and pulling it forward and retightening the nuts. However, doing this caused the bottom of the chainline (the part that is under tension when backdriven by the motor in this failure mode) is riding up on the bottom of the chainguard I made. :( I cut away over half of the guard's top section, and *still* had the chain rubbing hard on it. I cant' see the full chainline so I can't tell how far back I'd have to go. I guess I'll have to cut the guard off and reweld it a bit higher. I'd rather find the FW tool and fix the problem at it's root though.

While dealing with this, I decided to undo my raising of the left side outer rail, originally to clear the top of the tire. This is no longer needed if I use the 18T sprocket or freewheel, because the wheel itself ends up enough lower that it easily clears the rail anyway, due ot the "shorter" chain (shorter distance between centers of axles), pulling down the wheel in the diagonal dropout. (this also pulls the wheel *forward* by that amount, which misaligns the other wheel's axle to it, but if I have to I can fix that by moving that wheel forward (cutting dropouts off and rewelding them)).

Putting the rail back down makes the trike's cargo bed symmetrical again, so I can put stuff across the rails if I have to and still have it be level. That's the main reason for doing this.

Secondarily it looks better and is easier to cover up with the wood deck/etc.

I've also decided that rather than cutting, drilling and welding on bunches of new tabs to screw the boards to from underneath (like i did with the orignal deck), I'm just going to screw down thru the boards into the deck frame itself with self-tapping machine screws. The screws themselves actually came out of the signs these baords are from, and were used to screw them into thick metal shelving frames, so I know they can drill into the thinner tubing. This takes two screws per board, and I have about 20 pairs of these screws, so I have enough for the deck and a few others, but not for everything. So some of the stuff will need a different method of securing it.

Next up, finishing the fender frames so I can re-deck the cargo area. I did it a bit differnetly than previously, putting the triangulation bar on the inboard side from the crossbar behind the seat down to the dropout tops. On the outboard side I left it as is, where the top end is a few inches to the rear of that crossbar. Added a 1/2" square tube (as before) for the inboard top rail but it runs from that crosbar back to the rear of the fender, rather than just at the top of the wheel area. This makes more sense structurally, and doesn't really lose me much cargo area, and not in a really usable shape/area anyway. Makes it a lot easier to cover over, too, and I can put other stuff in that area (maybe the chargers?).

It's all just tackwelded together, in case I need to change something. Before I actually install the deck/coverings, I'll need to fully weld it all together, and grind/clean up the welds on the deckside faces of the tubes so the baords all sit flat.

The styrofoam battery box didn't hold up; I could see places where it was cracking from the stress of the strap on it, so that means it is not going to keep rain out. (might actually funnel it into it).

So I took a couple of the wooden "trays" and verified that A) they'll stack up one over the other to make a box, and still fit into the frame under the seat, and B) the battery will fit in them. This isnt' waterproof either, or evne resistant, but I can wrap the battery in some plastic bags before packing it in there. (I could've done that with the styrofoam box, too, but that is just going to keep breaking further until pieces come off, so no point...and it looks really crappy while the wooden box doesn't).

I wont' need this permanently, but until I can build the box around the cargo pod / battery compartment area and waterproof that, it should keep it secure and dry.

Didn't get anything else done, hopeing tomorrow goes better.

Today's weather was mostly a replay of yestrday, except they said it was going to be mostly sunny today, yet we didnt' get ot see the sun at all for most of the day, other than around an hour or so after 3pm. Before and after that it was heavy to moderate clouds over teh whole sky. Once it got dark it cleared up and got cold real fast (faster than yesterday) so I had to come in even sooner. :(

Suposed to be sunny tomororw too; we'll see about that. :/

After that we're up for rain at least the next three days (40-100-40, thu-fri-sat). Not gonna get much done on the trike outside that way, so may ahve to spend part of tomorrow clearing out enough space in the shed to work on it in there.

Unfortunatley the 220VAC for the welder won't reach the trike shed even with the extension; might barely reach the shed under the big mulberry, have to check. If so I guess I'm clearing that one out (all I can do is just pile the stuff outside of it, as there wont' be enough time or energy to move it to a different one).

Alternately I can save the time I'd waste doing that and just use the 115VAC welder, which works but isn't as good as the other one (and my welds tend to suck more with it). It's probably a better use of my time. ;)

Still ahve to cleear out a fair bit of stuff from the trike shed, that cant' just sit outside, but I can toss it into the other shed that has the broken roof, into the corners away from the ex-skylight panels (which are now holes), as it will be ok with that.
by amberwolf
Jan 17 2017 1:22am
Forum: E-Bike Technical
Topic: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier
Replies: 999
Views: 149098

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Today's list of stuff that got done:

-- putting the trailer hitch back on
-- adding a chainguard so cargo/etc can't push on the chain (not that I use it much but if I need it I will really need it to be clear)
-- wiring up the temporary left wheel/controller
-- reconnecting the reverse switch on the right motor (doesn't have reverse on the left)
-- swapping out the 3rd brake light from the busted-up old HF LED one to a nicer-looking (but incandescent) one probably from a car
-- putting the HF LED light with a red lens cover to make it "stick out" and be visible from the sides, down on the bottom of the trailer hitch boom.
-- adding a battery cutoff / "keyswitch" that can actually handle the current of the whole system

Some pics of the chainline/axle stuff from yesterday:
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I wired up the controller to the trike's power and throttle/brake, and rewired to the motor itself to get longer wires, so I wouldn't have to mount the controller on the side of the trike like this
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First were the halls, using part of an old cable from the original Fusin kit I bought from Dogman years ago, since it had six wires in it (originally for throttle plus 3speed switch). This gave me a few feet of wire to work with, enough to get around the wheel and have some slack to position controller in center of cargo deck between the other two. I left the original left motor's controller in place, in case it is needed as a spare for either of the others, for now).

Since the phases actually had andersons under the wrappings (I'd forgotten this, and thought they were soldered cuz I *had* done that on the front wheel), I pulled the phase wires plus andersons off an old Crystalyte 20A controller and spliced them onto this controller's output wires, in place of the last inch or so of existing wires plus andersons; this is about the same length as the halls now.
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Bolted the controller to the deck underside between the other two, and wired it up to the ebrake/throttle connections the old one used to be hooked up to.
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First test did not work, acted like I had a wrong combo, which wasn't possbile because I verified via camera that the wire colors are the same at each end of the splices. Well, the only connectors are the andersons on the phases, and I found that the green phase wire's contact was not fully clipped into the housing on the controller side. Fixed that and no more problems.

Spun up the motor, and works fine off ground, but the chain between mtoor and IGH also spun up :( meaning the freewheel isn't freewheeling. It should, because I made sure to put a spacer in there (made of wire) and it did work last night when I pedalled around, and hand-rolled it while off the trike. So I figured some of the wire must've come loose and gotten between the back of the sprockets/body and the motor cover. Since it's just wire, it should be easy to remove, but there's no tools I have to get in there, other than maybe a hacksaw blade, and rather than risk damaging something I figured a better way. Or at least, easier.

I used the makeshift chainwhip to hold the largest sprocket of the freewheel in place, and then engaged the motor, slowly at first, then when it freed up I did full throttle until the resistance went away, as it had worn thru the wire. :) One more problem fixed by brute force. ;)

Test rode it around the block a bunch of times, no problems. Current draw is up to about 85A, with the HSR / 40A controller pulling about 50A peak on it's own, and since the halls are acutally used by this controller (unlike either of the orignals on SBC), it starts smoothly from a complete stop, no jerking, etc. Accleration is a bit quicker, but not a lot; gonna need more torque than this motor/controller can provide. :)

I did watch the current while accelerating with just this motor, and interestingly it peaks about halfway to 20MPH, then falls off. It takes over 20 seconds to get there with just this motor, though. (similar to the X5304; both better than the 9C, at least).

WHen I got back to the house, I had some trouble with the gate again; it really needs I got the trike in the yard, and spent an hour or so fixing up the gate; tha'ts over in the housefire/blog thread in today's post there.

Oh, and while I was doing the motor/controller wiring, I added some wires to carry the reverse-signal for the rightside controller, so I can now backup under power again.

And I used an old (US General?) battery cutoff, which I think AussieJester sent me years ago, and has only been used as temporary experimental stuff until now. I think Im going to keep it on the trike permanently, though it will probably not stay where it is (my toes will hit it getting on and off sometimes; that's how I broke my first headlight switch).
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Then I built a chainguard for the top of hte chainline, to prevent cargo (or the dog crate) from rubbing on the chain, cuasing it to be harder to pedal if I do need to do that. It's made first of a thick hard steel T-plate used to connect endcaps to aisles in retail; happened to fit perfectly to cover the shaft/inputsprocket area of the axle, and will not bend from anything I'll carry there. Then a 1" square tube with relatively thin walls, and one side cut away, with that side pointed down and welded at it's ends to the Tplate and to the other guard at the seatpost.
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Kirin stayed out there with me even when it got cold (<50F) after sunset, but Yogi got bored and went in except for when other dogs would bark, or loud cars/trucsk would zoom by (cuz he HAS to chase them or explode :lol:).
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At one point Yogi decided to get in the trike's kennel, and Kirin thought it'd be a great time to corner him to play
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Removed the HF LED brake light, and replaced it with an incandescent automotive 3rd-brake-light, whiclh looks a lot better and is about as bright, but mroe surface area. It's still just ziptied on, till it's tested thoroughly, then I'll bolt it on.
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Trailer hitch was easy; I just had to trim off the front edge (so it wouldn't overlap the center controller (which is for the temporary left motor)), and drill a new set of rear holes in it for the existing bolts in the rear frame edge, then drill new holes in the cargo deck/frame up at the front edge of the hitch bar for bolts to go thru it's existing holes there.
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I used carriage bolts, since the deck is wood they'll hold them in place, and have rounded tops that will let the cargo slide over them without catching on them, wihtout having to be recessed.
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It's still got the reflective tape on it
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The HF LED light is just ziptied to the bottom/back edge of the hitch bar, and has a lens from a "first alert" LED flasher beacon taped over it. It was used because it is meant to spread the light in the beacon to as wide an area as possible, and that's what I want on there, so it's visible from the sides as well as behind, and will kinda light up the area under hte trailer itself, too, when it's attached.
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It was too cold (about 48F, it's 45F now, about 3 hours later) at that point to do anything else; my hands hurt too much to hold tools anymore. But I pondered and took some pics for ideas on where to put the AC-input plug for the future onboard chargers. First candidate is right under the seat, and second is just under teh cranks.
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by amberwolf
Jan 06 2017 10:38pm
Forum: E-Bike Technical
Topic: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier
Replies: 999
Views: 149098

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

I had a thought about pack layouts.

So far all of mine are boxes because I had 50cal ammocans that the packs happened to easily fit in, and those cans are tough, water resistant, and portable.

My plan had been to just continue that basic format, though not in the 50cal cans because they're not tall enough for 14s2p, only 1p. While I could always just build multiple packs and parallel them at their outputs, it makes more sense to directly parallel the cells, given the hardware I already have.

So if I do that, but in sections, then string them together with ringterminalled wires, I can actually lay the pack out flat, and put it *under* the cargo box area (the part around the seat), rather than in it. Or I could build it into the fender area, in front of and behind the rear wheels, if I make the sections a few cells thicker and set them up vertically instead of horizontally.

If it's done under the cargo box area, I could use 2s2p sections, basically about an inch thick; a bit more. Seven of those should fit, three to a side, and one in the middle, for the same 14s2p that presently makes a pretty large block. Not sure there's room enough for many more of those secitons like that, unless I also use under the cargo deck area too. I'd like to avoid putting the battery weight that far back, though, as those wheels already have to handle all the cargo weight.

If it's in the fender area, I could get up to 8s2p sections, so I could have two packs, one on each side of the trike (one for each motor, ideally; complete redundancy). But that puts all the battery weigth on the rear wheels (along iwth the cargo), which I'd like to avoid.

If I can keep it as close to the middle as possible, that'd be great.

I could use a few segments in the frame longways/vertically, between the "toptube" and "downtube", which is about 1.5" or so maximum usable width in there. Unfortunately I also have the IGH in the middle of that space, so only one or two sets can go in there, I think.

But anyway, it's an alternate way of thinking about builidng the packs into the trike (rather than having them "portable" between different vehicles, like the older packs are).

Have to play around with fit to see if any of that is actually practical.
by amberwolf
Dec 26 2016 10:53pm
Forum: E-Bike Technical
Topic: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier
Replies: 999
Views: 149098

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

First I started to do the canopy work described previously, but then I had a thought, that sometimes I might want to "retract" the canopy, something like this:
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I had wanted to do that on CB2 a few times on cool but sunny days, but it wasn't possible due to the front support, among other things. So I can simply flip it up and back, and ride with it "retracted" if I like. If winds are high enough to do this on it's own, but I still need the canopy, I can use a bungee cord or similar to tie down the front corners to the corners of the cargo area beside the seat.

Next up was to do some rewiring.
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Since I don't know exactly what the existing CA shunt's resistance is,
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and I think it has an intermittent wire in the speedometer, I went ahead and replaced it with a new shunt sent from Grin Tech a while back with the spokes I used to build the trike's wheels from. The new one is 1.00mohm, so I can be as sure as possible that the CA readings will be correct (assuming the old CAv2 smallscreen is working correctly...I know some of it is not).
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Then I changed the charging plug for the main pack from Anderson PP45s to the XLR panel mount type (from Grin Tech via Cvin), which includes a water-resistant cover.
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Presently it's just "jammed in" to the frame but I'll eventually make a panel between the frame tubes that all this stuff will actually mount on. This is "ideal" connector since the Satiator I use to charge with has the XLR as it's main connector. I've been using the XLR-to-pp45 adapter it comes with, but I've had some occasional little issues with it (the same I've had over the years with all the little PP45 types)
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I also finally added a switch to turn off the 12v lighting system, without unpluging the pack from it (which is what I've been doing since I built the trike). It's just below the headlight high/off/low toggle, next to the IGH shifter. Jammed in like the ohters, till I make the mounting panel.
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It's actually a 4pole 2throw On-On switch, but at present I just wired two poles in parallel, between the center common and one On side. If I ever get a DC-DC converter to replace the lighting pack I might be able to use it to switch between them for testing purposes before removing hte lighting pack entirely. For now, it's just an on-off for the trike's lighting system.

This is the whole frame area there, where I"ll eventually make a panel for them all:
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No noticeable difference in operation before and after the rewiring, as far as motor power goes, but huge difference in CA operation.

Note that prior to this work, I discovered I had not set the CA's old shunt value correctly, so the wh/mile of around 70 I'd gotten on average for my work commutes was not correct, based on what I had tested the old shunt (via readout comparisons) to be, so I reset it to the 1.3mohm I'd approximated the old shunt to be, and got more like 100-110wh/mile, which seemed way too high. This is part of why I wanted to change the shunt out, because whatever I did the readings seemed to be wrong.

I re-aired up the tires; the rears were down to about 25psi (should be 35), and the front down to 21psi (should be 40-45).

After that, the wh/mile with the old shunt dropped to about 90wh/mile, but this is still wrong, or seems so; even for a short ride around my neighborhood with a stop/start every few hundred feet.

With the new shunt, I get about 45wh/mile in the same trip, which seems reasonable, though a bit lower than I expected. I'll have to see what it shows on my work trip tomorrow.

Note that I believe *all* the wh and watt readings will be low, becuase the volt reading on the CAv2ss is about 0.6v-0.7v lower than actual. I don't know if there's a way to adjust that in the CA itself, or in it's settings; not sure why it reads low in the first place. (but this is one of two damaged ones I repaired, and it has a couple of other issues, like not always saving all of the trip data on shutdown (it does save some of it; the main odo updates ok, as do the number of cycles).

I then played around with the controllers a bit. I still have the 3speed switch on the left side controller, and the 3speed toggle button on the right one. Neither is wired up to the bars anymore, but just tied up down at the controllers under the cargo deck. So I have to stop the trike, get off, and lay down and reach under the trike to change the settings for each experiment (not worth rewiring it just for this test).

I found in previous tests with this that the current pulled does change, up to a max of someting liek 33-35A per controller. But in today's test, the left controller varied from 15A at lowest setting, to 25A on middle (unswitched) setting, to 32A on the highest. The right controller did not vary at all, though it has LEDs to show the state is changing. It stayed at 32A peak current on each setting.

So something has definitely changed inside that controlller, though I don't know how or what--the above issue, plus the one where it cuts out and requires power cycling once voltage sags below a certain point (a lower point than it once did). I forgot what the third issue was now. :/

At least it still works.

I'd intended to leave the A123 pack off the trike, and use just the EIG, to save the almost 30lbs the A123 weighs, as I shoudln't need it for my short work commutes.

However, because I need that rightside motor for acceleration (and to climb a short shallow hill as I cross the canals to exit Metrocenter on the way home), and I might not be able to charge (someone could unplug the charger from wall or trike, on purpose or by accident) at work, and wouldnt' be able to charge on trips to the store, I need to carry both packs. I can then plug in the A123 once the EIG pack has dropped from it's full voltage down to about 54v, which is about where the A123 rests after balancing, to minimize the voltage sag under load.

And now for a puppy-break, after which we'll return with more technical stuff. ;)

Yogi and Kirin were a bit upset that I didn't take them wiht me on the test rides:
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by amberwolf
Dec 20 2016 2:01am
Forum: E-Bike Technical
Topic: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier
Replies: 999
Views: 149098

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

It's not done, but it's rideable again, fully functional.
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I'd wanted to get it rideable before dark, and take Kirin up to where I work for her to meet everyone, to give it a good workout test ride, and then take her back home and go for a grocery run. But everything took longer than anticipated, partly cuz the cold made my joints hurt and my hands less capable than usual. Would've been easier if I'd been in the house, but I couldn't've gotten the trike inside and rolled it over on it's side, etc., that I needed to do to reach stuff on the bottom, so I just tried to stay in the direct sunlight with it where possible, and dressed warmly (but couldn't wear gloves and still manipulate anything).

I ended up working on it till well after 9pm just to get it going for a test ride around the block, and ran into a few little problems, easily fixed, and one big one that I don't know why it's happening, covered later in the post.

Most of the day was spent replacing all the wiring for the rear lights and the throttle/ebrake signalling from the bar controls to the controllers under the deck, and adding a switch for headlight high/low beam. (to replace the one I broke off quite some time ago).

I'd gathered up a fair bit of different types of cabling, but none that was long enough, had enough wires in it to connect all of the wires in a single cable, except for some that had wires so thin with only a couple of strands of conductor, that they might not carry the current for the incandescent turn signals without doubling or tripling up the wires (which would again make too few wires).

Then I remembered I had some old Firewire cables that will probably never be used, which would have a minimum of 6 conductors (including the shield), and at least two would be thick enough to handle the turn signal currents; probably all would, if the four data lines would be thick enough. Turns out all the wires are thick enough, and one cable even has 7 conductors.
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6 conductors would take care of the lighting, 7 would be better for the controller stuff. But unfortunately the cable long enough to reach the back lights had the 7 conductors, and the shorter one only had 6. Still works, but I lose the reversing button for the controllers, unless I run a single wire just for that. which I'll probalby do at some point, cuz I use the reverse often enough to be worth it.
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I still have to make a mount for the headlight switch, ATM it's just got it's nut jammed into the "mixte"-ish bars, next to the IGH shifter, and below the charging plug. Keeps it from being hit by my toes when getting on and off the trike (which is how the last one broke), and is reachable while riding. Didn't put it on hte bars like CB2 has because I didn't want to run 3 heavy gauge wires all the way up and then back down the tiller tube, to handle the car headlight's current.
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I had to replace every wire in the lighting bar, cuz there was melted insulation on a number of them, and I didn't trust any of the remaining ones. Also, the diodes in the tail/brake light arrangement were totally fried--the heatshrink around htem was destroyed, and the diodes themselves were either crumbled or split open. I had thought that the short that caused the fire was closer to the battery but apparently it was up there in that lighting bar area, given the damage there.

While I was at it, I changed the internal wiring on the LED strips of the taillights, so the diode assembly wont' be needed. The diodes were used as a series string to drop the voltage for the tailight, so it would be dimmer than if on full voltage. Then the brake switch just shorted across the diodes, to make the lights full brightness. Not the best way but it was easy enough, and worked with all the lights at the same time--all 3 paralleled LED strips inside the taillights, plus the HF "hitch cap" light.

The new way is to wire only the top and bottom LED strips in the taillights in parallel, powered directly from the lighting power, no dimming. Then the center strips, and the HF cap light, are wired between the brake lever switch (which provides lighting power V+ when engaged), and ground. This provides effectively less tailight illumination becasue the HF cap light is no longer part of the taillighting, but the brake lighting has MUCH more contrast than before, which is important.

Eventually I'll get the lights from the previous post mounted to it and tested, but for now this is sufficient.

The other stuff I got done was mostly finishing up the rack uprights started last night, and grinding down a number of weld seams that were more birdshit than usual. ;) and variuos sharp edges, etc. I still need to grind down a whole bunch of other stuff to make them flat for fitting boards/etc across, and also finish up full-seam-welds on a number of joints, but none of them are critical to the testing phase.

As referenced earlier, there was a problem with the rightside motor system (x5304), where it simply stopped working during the ride, after only a few dozen yards. The leftside motor worked normally. I even powered the system off and back on, no change. Since I had recharged the A123 pack overnight (to also let it balance, if needed), I expected it to operate normally after the rewiring and keep working, and that the wiring was the reason it didnt' work yesterday.

But now I find that it's simply that it isn't working below a certain voltage, though it *did* work below that before. I don't know where the threshold is, exactly, but seems to be around 52-53v (the CAv2 smallscreen I have on there has a few things wrong with it, one of which is that it reads at least a volt lower than actual; haven't determined exactly how far off it is yet). Unfortunately that is right in the "meat" of the A123 packs' capacity, so it will only operate the right motor system as it burns off the surface charge, and after that it doesn't work (only the leftside does).

This *did* work below that orignally, so I don't know what's changed on that controller. Something has, though. :/

Anyway, I need that motor to work, for acceleration especially with a load or dog in the kennel, so I pulled the EIG pack off CrazyBike2 and put it on the trike, and retested and the rightside motor system works fine with that, "proving" it is just the controller LVC kicking in to stop it from working. So I'll need to open up the controller and figure that problem out, eventually; for now I'll just use the EIG pack on it.

Side note: I was going to use the Luna 4p 18650 pack to test it, but it was only at 51v, and would not start charging when hooked up to the Satiator; apparently the same type of problem I had with that pack when it arrived here, and the same problem it's original owner had, too. I'll have to open it up again and see what the deal is, if it's way-too-low cells or just the BMS needing to be reset, or what.

Anyhow, I rode around the block a few times, testing lights, signals, motors, braking, etc. For some reason it feels like the EABS braking on the x5304 isn't as hard as it used to be, but it's been so many months now (half a year!) that I'm probably misremembering it. But other than that it seems normal; handles ok, etc. I think the tires need some air.

I still need to tilt the headlight up; the beam even on high is still too close to the trike and not far enough down the road (ever since changing to the bigger Shinko tires, IIRC).

Lots of stuff left to do before it's "done" (again), but at least I can start using it again now.

After the test rides, while it was parked, Yogi climbed in and laid down for a nap; it almost made me cry because Tiny used to do that all the time if I left the kennel door open, but Yogi never did that--he'd go in if I asked ihim to, but never on his own, and he'd just get right back out if I didn't close the door.
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Kirin, on the other hand, will get in if I insist, but she REALLY wants out and will try to get past me until I close the door (which makes her back up and sit in there, but she obviously doesn't want to stay in there). We'll have to get her used to the idea of getting in and out, so she's comfortable with it....
by amberwolf
Nov 01 2016 2:32am
Forum: E-Bike Technical
Topic: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier
Replies: 999
Views: 149098

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Some "upgrades" for the trike:

Surprisingly, I found a pair of dead Cycle Analyst v2 small screens sent to me a few years back, that I'd started to repair before the housefire, but coudln't finish at the time, and thought lost with the fire. But they turned up, and I fixed one, so now it's on the trike, mounted on that stub of steering tiller tube: ... 7#p1235195

I also ran across the box with the spare spokes and a couple of CA 1milliohm shunts, so I think just to be more certain of the data collection on trike and bike (since for instance there is always a significant difference between what the Satiator reads and the CA, during recharging), I'm going to swap out the old shunts on both SBC and CB2, hopefully in the next few days.

With the CA mounted, and powered from the Luna pack (which won't run the x5304; it sags so much the controller shuts down and won't restart until I pull the pack and reconnect it), I did some pedal testing around the block. and found that in the lowest IGH gear and smallest front chainring, I can start up and maintain about 3mph. I can reach about four but can't maintain that.

Using the other IGH gears I get another MPH per each gear, but I can't maintain it very long. Similarly with the two larger chainrings. I think about 7-8MPH is the fastest I can do at all, in highest of each gear, but again, I can't maintain that, and quickly drop down to about 2mph in the higher gears from the strain on my joints.

But I can use the gears to pedal along with the motor at 150-300w, and still feel like I'm doing something to help it.

If I can figure out how to mount a front derailer for those chainrings, I can shift while riding, between the IGH and the front rings, and be able to help the motor, or have the motor help me, at more than the 2-3mph I'll probably be able to maintain in the lowest of all the gears by myself (possibly only 1-2mph or even less, if it's loaded down with cargo or dogs), if the battery is too low to do the whole thing, but can still do a little.

The other upgrade is a new motor for the left rear wheel, to replace the 9C 2807: an MXUS v2 3T, from Neptronix; paid for by Cvin for the work I've been doing to fix her bikes.
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The controllers I have wont' really run it anywhere near it's potential, but even as it is it should have more torque than the 9C just from the wider magnets/stator (the MXUS is almost twice the flange width of the 9C). It's also wider than the rim itself.
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It's also heavier, but in this case that's useful, in that it helps to hold the left side down when I'm making a left turn (like the X5304 helps hold down the right in a right turn).

It's made for a thread-on freewheel, so no need for the hack I had to do to the 9C. It came with a 12T on it so that has to come off, as I need a larger one (the one off the 9C will be moved over) for the gearing I need for pedalling this (the whole reason for adding the IGH and smaller chainrings up front).
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The controller is the generic 12FET sensorless-only (even though it has hall wires), which will do about 30-35A peak, IIRC. I could probably modify it's shunt to fool it into increasing that, but since I need this to be reliable I'd rather not risk popping it while I'm loaded up with cargo or dog(s) (when it is more likely to fail due to higher current for longer times).

I'm hoping that eventually someone will be selling a pair of high-current sensored controllers (one for each of the rear wheels) for real cheap so I can afford to upgrade those, too. :) It'd be nice to see what these things could do with 80-100A battery current on *each motor* (though I'd have to use the EIG pack on one and the A123 pack on the other, at present, since at least when full they don't parallel directly due to different chemistry/voltage/etc).

It's not critical to do this, but it'd be nice to be ablet o accelerate much quicker than I can at present.
by amberwolf
Oct 10 2016 1:27am
Forum: E-Bike Technical
Topic: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier
Replies: 999
Views: 149098

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Got a litttle bit more done today (yesterday was taken up with repairng CrazyBike2's rear wheel, as the rim has been splitting apart for a while now).

First up was taking apart one of the old bent-up retail shelves,
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to get the big sheet of ~1/32" thick steel off to use as the outer part of the cargo/etc boxes under and behind the seat.

I cut the ends off, about two inches on the bent up end, and right at the seam on the other end. These ends are about 1/8" thick steel.
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Then I cut along the front and rear channel edge where it is made by bending the large flat panel, leaving the channels intact if I need them later, as well as the panel.

Then I ground away the spotwelds from underneath, that hodl the under-shelf reinforcment channels in place, again so that I can use those if needed. They'd be in the way of my use in the cargo areas, and not necessary (at least, not yet). These rails are even thnner metal, maybe half or less the thickness of the main shelf surface.

This is what all the pieces look like, if you've ever wondered what's under all the stuff you buy at the store. ;)
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If I make the side panels out of this, it'd look a little like this, other than being cut out to match the actual tubing structure along the bottom (see the pics in previous post that show that).
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Most likely I would try bending the top edge, instead of cutting the bottom away, so taht the row of holes goes over the top of the fender area. I'm not sure exactly how I'd do that and get an even bend along the whole length; I'd have to build a brake bender out of wood to do it.
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Since the gearing works out ok, and I know the crank position needs to move up to a bit above and forward of where it used to be with the old one-piece cranks, I wend ahead and cut the BB shell off the stays of the experimental bit, and moved and welded them in their new permanent home.
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Then I cut away the rest of the experiment, so that I can weld it to it' snew home, a bit rearward of where it was, and up a bit, to make it possible to take the IGH out for maintenance, etc., without having to break the chain to the rear end. It will take some wiggling and maneuvering to get it off, but it will work.
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The dropouts and stays are actually flipped upside down and swapped left-right, so taht the former steatstays that pointed up are now downa nd rearward a bit to connect to the crossbeam down there, and the former chainstays point down and forward to connect toa new crossbeam that isnt' yet present.
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I cut the ends of the seatstays to "fishmouth" them to fit the front top corner edge of the long crossbeam. The chainstays were left flat so they will go right on top of the new short beam.
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Yogi and Teddy came in and out a lot while I did all this, to say hi and see what was going on, but as soon as I started cutting or grinding they'd head back inside.
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Eventually I figure dout the chainline simply couldn't be made to work around the crossbeam support on the right side; it'd go thru it in one gear or another on the front chainrings, and touch it in the others, no matter how I did things. So I cut it off on taht side (leaving the leftside as-is for now), and then cut and bent the stay itself to meet the downtube at the top of the right side.
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Now the chainline clears it fine in any gear. (not that I am likely to use anything other than the largest ring in normal usage, along with the overdrive gear on the IGH, so that I can do some pedalling along with the motor at lower speeds, when I am able to do it, but the smallest ring and underdrive on IGH will be needed to get me home in case of motor system failure.)
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The shifter cable was redone by taking out the hinge pin of the threaded rod on the IGH-mounted shifting lever, and runnign the calbe thru taht pin hole, to pull the lever forward for underdrive and overdrive, and let it rest for 1:1 (I think).
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Cable routing is still the same as before, and so is the securing of it--just braided around itself after looping thru the lever.
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Chanlines to the rear clear eertyying fine, as planned.
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Oh, and the IGH is actually mounted offset to the right so the drive sprocket on it's right flange is aligned as perfectly as possible with the rear end's input sprocket. By chance, this also makes it align perfectly for the bolted-on input sprocket to the IGH, and the smallest sprocket in the crank triple, which is good because it is the one that would have the most load on it if I ever have to use it. :)
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I tested the system pedalling around the yard, and got no creaks or derailings, etc. (unlike with the temporary mounting), and in the lowest gear it worked perfectly--allowing me to pedal everywhere, even when a wheel would go down into a hole (a few inches deep, mostly), though with some effort for most, and significant effort on the rest (but it'd be easy for someone without my problems).

If I needed to climb hills, I'd need even lower gears, but this should do for most of relatively-flat Phoenix. :) I doubt that I could go up the canal-path underpass ramps without much lower gearing. Those are kinda steep.

But....druing the first part of this test, the tiny bolts I had used to secure the output sprocket to the IGH's spoke flange sheared thru,
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while trying to get the left rear (drive) wheel out of one of those holes. Just TING! and cranks spinnign around. At first I thought I'd broken the IGH itself, but it was just those bolts, about equivalent to 15g or maybe 16g spoke thickness. :/

I looked thru stuff I had and tried a few other things, but managed to shear them, too, so I gave up and just welded the sprocket ot the flange. I had to first cut away arcs of the flange, so that I could weld securely thru it to the sprocket, without the weld bead interfering with the chain laying on the teeth, so it's rpetty ugly.
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But this worked. I think I'd probably break something else before this comes loose. ;)

The last thing I got done was to add some square tube to the back corners of the seat back frame, so taht I can drill holes thru them and the front edge of the cargo rack, and bolt the two together to complete another part of the structure (and keep the rack from being rammed into my shoulders, by keeping the trike from "bending" there, hopefully, though that will require some more mods to this seatback frame attachment point).
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I also flipped the handlebar stem to move the bars from hanging below the tiller to above the tiller, though I appear to have forgotten to take a pic of the after-change version. :/
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I still ahve to complete the framework on the front of the cargo area, and the rack forward supports, fender inboard framework replacment, cargo/battery/etc boxes, new full-length cargo deck planks, rewiring everything, repairing or replacing the steering tiller tube, etc.
by amberwolf
Oct 03 2016 4:09am
Forum: E-Bike Technical
Topic: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier
Replies: 999
Views: 149098

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Oh, and first up, a thanks to Spinningmagnets for that IGH I'm using (and some others I have around here somewhere) ; I'd forgotten until just now that he'd salvaged them from bikes destined for the dump, and sent them to me several years ago for a project I never went forward with. So it's high time I'm finally using one.

Also, I forgot to post it, but when I was doing up the chains I had a problem (again) with the chain breaker tool. It is not well-designed, and has a habit of the brass "retainer" just coming out, letting the pin and bearing fall out to bounce on the ground and get lost. :(
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As long as you never point it with pin downward whenever you have the plate-securing bolt in anything but it's most inward position, and the pin bolt in anything but it's most inward position, so that the plate bolt captures the bits when they fall out, and keeps them from coming out very far, then there's no issue.
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But if you have it in the normal usage position, and tip it downward, away the bits go to hide from you (and they're very good at even escaping magnets). When this happened while doing the chains, I had just undone the chains and was about to put them back together, so after an hour of looking for the pin and bearing (found the bushing), I gave up and made a makeshift pin from a slightly too small allen wrench, as it was the only thing I had hard enough to do the work (I tried a nail first and it was a perfect fit, but bent the instant I put pressure on it to put a chain back together).
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The allen wrench, being smaller than the bushing hole, wiggled around and didn't stay alighned, so I kept haiving to use needlenose to push it back in line while pushing the pins bakc into the chain links. Made the whole process take a couple dozen times longer than it should have.

Of course, tne next day I found the pin just laying there right on top of the work area, where it most definitely was not the day before. :( Didn't find the bearing, but I have a handful of a size taht works....).

Anyhow, back to the trike: I got a bit more cutting and welding done today in between rainstorms. I have the basic outer rails done, all the way around to the front under the seat.
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The bottom edge of the forward side rails (just forward of the wheels) is not yet done, nor is the left side triangulation of the main bottom frame.
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The new rack is tacked together, around the dog crate/kennel, though I deliberately didn't make it as tight a fit as before, since now the whole thing is enclosed on the bed there's not really much worry about it coming out the back. :) Plus with the trailer hitch on there it won't be able to slide out any farther than the ball.

I don't have the front rack supports on there yet, as I was trying to decide whether to do them straight or angled forward. Will most likely do the latter, as it makes a stronger shape overall.
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The pics above are with the crate scooted bakc to let me clamp the battery on; when it' sin it's normal position it'll be here
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and so makes the straight support position irrelevant; I wouldn't gain anything from it.

It doesn't seem like much difference in the appearance, but there are at least several cubic feet more space on the trike for cargo now.
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I coudl actually get a bit more space if I mvoe the seat forward even more, whcih I could do if I leave the new cranks where they are now. Probably could do 3-4 more inches. It's still in consideration.

It also definitely changes the handling, for the better in my short around-the-block test tonight. I put the crate on there, and hoseclamped the EM3EV A123 ammocan pack, and the 3-cell EIG lighting pack to the frame behind/right of the seat; I had to slide the crate back a few inches (almost where it used to be, actually), so there would be enough stable area to clamp it to without hitting the chain. I rode around the block, maintaining speed for turns (proablaby between 15-18mph, no speedo so cant say for certain till the CA is back on it. In turns, it was less tippy than it was before. I don't know if that's due to the weight shift forward, or the extra few pounds of metal in the longer rack and tubing, or what.

I didn't have the trunk on teh rack so that's a significant weight not up top right now, and I'm sure it makes some difference. But if the new under-seat cargo areas work out I won't need that up there most of the time.

But just for the photo op, I set it up there and pushed the crate into it's forward position, with the battery removed.
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Something wierd I saw when taking pics is that the eat appears to be offset to the right by quite a bit...but when I look at it rom the base and senter pole, it's centered. So I'm gonna have to measure everything and see what the deal is. :/
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What I think I am going to do is make a single U-shaped compartment, insulated with styrofoam, and hinged covers. Exactly how the covers will work I'm not certain yet. I considerd making the seat hinged, so that it pivots forward at the front rail of the cargo deck. This could get complicated, in that I wouldneed to make a fastener for the back end that I could easily and quickly undo, but that can't come loose by accident.

But it would make creating and using the compartment covers easier.

Instead, it is more likely that I will make the whole side and part of the top hinge outward on the two side comparments, so they are like L-shapes but upside down. Kinda like reverse gullwing doors.

Then the rear compartment (which will be tools and batteries, I guess) would open toward the rear the same way.

I suppose I should also put some lights inside the compartments, since it'll be even harder to see into them especialy at night, than the plastic box type I'm using now. The white styrofoam will help, but I'll still need light and holding a flashlight while I dig around for stuff would be annoying. I have some little PCBs with white LEDs on them that run on 12v; I had been pondering using them as marker lights behind bike reflectors, but this is probably a better use. :)

So I am pretty close to done withteh structural stuff, and then I have to work on the covering part, and the paintjob.

I also have to do the wiring. I havent yet redone all of that, and I would like to, to get the whole thing less experimental looking, and more like a usable everyday vehicle. :)

I have a bunch of old cables ready to cut up and splice into the various harness sections, and the plan is to run the wiring thru the frame wherever it is possible (that's what I started to do when building it the first time, but then kept adding things.... :/

Since I have to redo the wiring anyway, I am probably going to replace or at least repair the steering tiller tube in a better way than my quick hack I used the night it broke. It requires removing all the cables from the tube first, or else the welding heat will destroy them. So now would be a good time to do it.

Anyway, lots of stuff still left to do before it's back to usable condition...but when it is done it should be better and more usable than it was before (and it was pretty good then. :) ).

I think I've used up about $12 worth of cutting discs so far, and at least that much welding wire, just in the last few days. :oops:

Maybe I should sell ad space on the sides. :lol:

(it's funnier if you remember how much I hate spam)
by amberwolf
Oct 02 2016 3:50am
Forum: E-Bike Technical
Topic: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier
Replies: 999
Views: 149098

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

I decided to go for broke and redesign much of the whole rear end from the deck on up, though I left alone the whole wheel attachment and basic undeframe so far. I may cut away the horizontal crossmembers and replace them with an X brace...maybe not; it's already a lot of work. :)

First, though I cut the extra bolt length away and slightly ground the nuts to clear the stays/etc on the larger sprocket bolted to the IGH's input sprocket.
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This tests fine, and gives me (in underdrive) a gear I can pedal around in from a stop, albeit probably at a pace I could walk at. :P But at least I can get somewhere without killing myself, if I have to. I tested by going all the way around the local block my house is on, I forget how far that is but probably half a mile or so, and other than being hot from the midday sun, it was survivable. Getting started froma stop still hurts but is tolerable under normal conditions; if it was a hurty day (like rainy or cold days often are) then that might be a different story.

I swapped some round chainrings in the same tooth counts as the Biopace (28/38/48T) and retested, and verified that while the Biopace doesn't do everything it would if it were at the correct angle to my input like it would be on a normal bike, it *does* help some. SO I put the Biopace back on.

Somewhere during all the above, I also found the shifter (but not the pullchain/rod) for the SA-IGH, and while it won't directly connect to the Shimano, I managed to rig something that works. I clamped the shifter around one of the "mixte like" tubes, next ot the keyswitch.
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(cable nowhere near long enough to reach the bars; didn't wanna deal with replacing that). The cable housing is just long enough that way to reach a cable boss I already had on the frame for the abortive attempt at adding rear rim brakes back when I was using BMX wheels back there. (someday I'll get back to that idea, too).
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The cable from there happens to angle perfectly straight around the chain to reach the IGH's shifter lever, so I wraped it around that, hten braided it around itself tightly enough that I am able to shift using the lever to all three gears (though the last one, underdrive, requires some overpull to get latched).
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On to the cargo deck stuff.

I chopped the angled seat supports, and the crossbar from the front edge of each fender to them, in a way that I can just reweld if I had to, and tested it.
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Just sitting on the trike feels different; the front is much less connected to the back this way, and has noticeable sag and twist. Riding around the yard where it's uneven was really twisty. So I definitely need to stiffen it up with different bracing, if these are removed.

First, I just cut and bent the seat suports so they're vertical,
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and tack welded them, and removed the whole crossbar to the fenders. This helps a bit with the sag part, and makes the seat a little stiffer so I don't feel like I'm sitting up in a swaying tree ;), but it doesn't change the twistiness of the trike front to rear.

THey do still clear the chainline. barely.
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Because these supports are still in the way there, of putting the battery and accessory boxes where I'd like to,
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I'm going to remove them entirely, and add a support tube from the front edge of the seat mount plate to the "toptube" directly below it, probably at a slight forward angle to complement the rear tube that goes all the way down to the main "downtube". Sideways stiffness will be helped by another design change, if it works out.

First, since I'll be extending it anyway, I cut the whole rack off starting at the rear edge where the lights are mounted. I may yet redo that part too, but for now I'll leave it to simplify some things, and leave the lights up there for nighttime test rides (once I get some of the basic wiring redone).
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this gives enough room with the seat moved forward that now the entire dog crate easily fits behind the seat on teh deck, fully supported, rather than overhanging in the rear.
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The hitch won't need to stick out so far back anymore,
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and can now be moved forward quite a lot. I can probably just ditch half of the whole assembly, but I think I'll leave it as is in case I end up wiht long cargo *and* needing the trailer...ya never know. :)

It'll be something like this, from the side.
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This is how it would mount, shown from the bottom.
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The rack and it's new front support might look something like this:
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Then I cut the whole front top portion of the fender frame away on the right side, to see what I could do with that. I bent the original fender tubing down from it's 45-ish degree angle all the way flat with the cargo bed. That might go back to the way it was later, but probably not.
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What I am thinking is that if I remove the existing frame just inboard of that fender tube, and replace it with a longer piece that goes several inches further forward, then add a new crossmember to the center "downtube" in front of the seat, then I have a new better attachmenet point for the forward overhead rack support, which will then go at a forward and outward angle from the rack down to this point, giving a bit of "triangulation" to the structure and removing some of it's ability to sway. It already had such an angle the way it had been fastened to the forward outer corner of the fender frame, but it wouldn't if I kept the attachment piont there (and it also wouldn't help stiffen the whole trike like the new point should).
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The actual front edge of the rack will then be right at the back top rail of the seat, and will be fastened to it (a clamp or bolt, rather than welding, so I don't ahve to worry about getting a seatcover over it whenever it needs changing, or setting one on fire that's on there when I do the welding. :lol: This clamping/bolting will stiffen the whole thing more, and help minimise seat sway too. It won't stop it, because the attachement of the seat back to the seat is only a single point in the center under the seat, but it will be better than nothing (I hope).

The seatback's cover, BTW, was all rotted out, so I took it off and replaced it with an old t-shirt, tied down while stretched out, but it didn't work out very well--being old, the shirt's threads just tore, so I'll have to use some good newer material to make the cover from, and then perhaps attach the main body section of the shirt over that (for the pretty picture).
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Back to the cargo deck...I think I'll go with a single 1" square tube at the height of the fender frame top, replacing the outer 1/2" square tube that's there, but not just on the fender frame--it'll go the whole length of the cargo bed, from rear edge to just beside the seat. I'll weld it to the vertical rack support at the rear edge (which presently is removable, but won't be when I'm done with this, or perhaps will be done in a different way). It will also be welded to the cargo deck via the front rack support, which also won't be removable at that point.

It'll wind up basically looking kinda like a pickup truck with an overbed rack. It sort of did before, but it will look even more like it now.

The fender itself sort of flares out from top toward the axle, but I'm likely to change that so that it is the same vehicle width as axle point all along the cargo deck. Then I can use some of that red metal shelving to cut it's metal surface off of, and tack weld that to the whole side of the deck. It's a lot tougher than the coroplast I've used over the fenders so far, and is already red so I don't ahve to paint it except where I cut / weld it. It is really thin, so it shouldn't be too much heavier with it, but it will also be much more durable. Since it is possible it will rattle, I may spray-glue styrofoam sheets to the inside portion of it to damp vibrations.

I considered wood, too...which I might still do instead, but it is just as much work to get it off the pallets and cut it to fit the spots, etc. Not sure any one piece is long enough either, so would have to use several end to end lengthwise and side to side, or a lot of them vertically (which would make it easier to find "good" pieces as they don't have to be more than a foot long). But...wood is a LOT thicker than the metal sheets, and widens the trike by double it's thickness. It's already hard to get thru my front door when I need to.

I also might just leave the frame bare like it's been for many months now, but the trike is a lot more visible when it has "solid" sides rather than open framework. Even as big as it is, it makes quite a difference with more surface area for visibility.

I did some test fitting and such, and found that there's no way I can lower the frame for the accessory box area without interfering with the chainline from IGH to rear end. But if I am cutting away the existing frame, then as long as I am also moving the IGH upwards a bit, more toward the center of the frame it's in, and make sure that the forward frame crossmember ends up out of the chainline, it should still work out ok.

So that's what I decided to do. For the moment I left the triangulation portion, because I need something to help hold the front and rear together and aligned while I build the rest of the frame around it. Then I will move the triangulation as well.
DSC05995.JPG (101.75 KiB) Viewed 4425 times
So far I've got the fender cut out for the long horizontal tube, and that tube installed and tack welded.
DSC05996.JPG (86.92 KiB) Viewed 4425 times
I also experimentd with some stuff clamped together to see what it'll look like with the full frame there, and so it'll look mostly like that but not exactly.
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I've got the fender tube back up at about 45 degrees or so, like the rear one, for a "truss like" structure. I added a forward 1/2" square tube from axle point level with cargo deck pointing forward. It's not yet attached to anything else, but will be part of the outer railing.
DSC06003.JPG (93.67 KiB) Viewed 4425 times

I added a crossmember under teh main downtube, just behind the IGH and front edge of the seat. (it doesn't go to the actual seat edge or further forward so that if I have my feet on the ground and the trike moves forward for any reason, I don't get my heels/calves/ankles bashed).
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I started to add a lower rail, but changed my mind on where it is and how it's connected, so I'll cut the tackwelds off and reshape it's rear connecting end so it goes under and around the "axle" jackshaft tube just forward of the wheels, so that it is even with the bottom of the downtube, and then goes up to and connects with that crossmember above.

Once that is connected at each end, then I will be able to cut out the original diagonal triangulation support, and replace it with a longer one that's lower down.

Together, all of that will strengthen the trike from twisting as much, because it will connect farther forward (albeit not by a lot, but mostly it will give significantly more volume of cargo area under the seat.

A shot of the whole frame bottom as it is right now, to ponder with
DSC06005.JPG (66.03 KiB) Viewed 4425 times

While I was just going to put the plastic case back where it was, and then add another on the other side, I think I'm going to make some metal panels instead, that attach to the new frame itself. Then hinge the outer panel (rather than the top, because I'll get more accessibility that way) to be able to put stuff in there. I might hinge the top instead; depends on how the whole things works out. Maybe I"ll hinge both. :)

I'll line the box on the top and sides with styrofoam, so stuff inside doesn't get as hot as fast in direct sunlight. The bottom will be left uninsulated so heat can escape that way.

The battery...may still go where I'd planned. Or it may end up inside a box of it's own, insulated the same way.

Right now, though, I'm dozing off as I type so I'll have to finish this later....
by amberwolf
Oct 01 2016 12:42am
Forum: E-Bike Technical
Topic: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier
Replies: 999
Views: 149098

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

With Teddy's help
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I got a bit of the mechanical stuff done to the trike yesterday and today, mostly moving the seat forward about 5 inches, and replacing the one-piece cranks with 3piece cranks in a BB forward of the old by about that same amount, and down a bit; also adding a 3-speed IGH as jackshaft in the pedal drivetrain.

First up was moving the seat. This was first to move center of mass forward, to help with traction on front wheel (for eventually adding a motor up there too, as well as braking and steering), and to give me more cargo area. It was also so that I could just add the new BB in front of the frame, at least during testing, before modifying the frame in case stuff didn't work out as expected.

This is where it was before:
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and this is where it was to be moved to:
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It was *almost* straightforward, cutting the seat's support plate welds to the frame, sliding it forward, and rewelding. But I also needed to "lower" the front edge of the seat a bit, because the frame goes up at a slight angle, which would make the seat higher than it was before, and I don't need that. The only "easy" way to fix it was to cut the frame where it curves either side of the tube that supports the front of the seat, then cut some of that tube off at the top, then bend the frame down a bit and reweld it to that tube. Then weld the seat support plate back to that frame.

So now it is like this:
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and I had to move the handlebars forward a bit, but I didn't move them as far as I did the seat, to try out a closer position for a while.
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Adding the BB...was a process. :/

At first I was just going to take the cranks out of the old shell
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cut just a BB shell off a junk frame, and weld it directly to the front flat side of the "downtube". But I also wanted to add the IGH as jackshaft, to get a low and high gear (especially the low). So I decided for the moment to combine the two, as right now would be easy to do so simply by not just taking the BB shell off the frame, but to take the BB shell, chainstays, and rear dropouts all as one piece.
DSC05872.JPG (98.2 KiB) Viewed 4439 times
Since the big square tubing I have as the "downtube" is wider than the space between the stays at the BB, I cut a section from their inside area that would let me put the BB almost up against it (I couldn't get the angle grinder in there far enough to actually get right up to the BB).
DSC05874.JPG (70.33 KiB) Viewed 4439 times
Then I slid it back over the triek frame and put the IGH into the dropouts, tighteing the nuts to squeeze the stays together to hold the unit over the "mixte-ish" vertical supports near the front of the trike frame, till I had it all aligned and could tack weld it.
DSC05873.JPG (89.14 KiB) Viewed 4439 times
I used small chainrings on a swaged-together steel crank at first, because I really only wanted the smallest chainring on it, and I didn't have anything else with that small a ring handy.

By this time, Teddy and Yogi had given up on me, and were waiting in the kitchen for noms.
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So that was it for Thursday. Friday I continued, though:

After tackwelding and verifying chainlines ought to be good enough, I dug out my box of old freewheel clusters,
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and took one apart for the 20-tooth sprocket, like this one but with a smaller center hole
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to match the sprocket already on the IGH and the ones on the rest of the drivetrain (on the input and output of the trike's rear jackshaft).
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The IGH is a Shimano 333, probably the worst of the ones I have, but the only one I could easily find (I already had it out for the Raine Trike project that is presently on hold). I do know where a Sturmy Archer AW is, still in a 27" wheel, but I don't know where I put the shifter for it, and it doesn't have the shifter pull chain/etc attached to it, so I wouldn't easily be able to come up with something to shift it. The SHimano still has it's shifter rod on there, and it works by pushing, using a lever built into it, so all I have to do is make something to pull up on it in 3 steps to make it shift like it should. Not all that hard--I can probalby use an old friction shifter to do this, with it's cable clamped to the shifter pull rod.
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I would've used a sprocket with less teeth (so the gearing would end up even lower, as this is the output of the IGH to the system), but unfortunately anything smaller than 20 teeth would not let the chain clear the flange of the IGH (whcih is where I would have to mount the sprocket).

I chose a sprocket that was almost exactly the same inner diameter as the outer diameter of the IGH's body just to the right of the spoke flange. I only had to grind off the 3 "bumps" used to engage it with the freewheel body, and lightly file the inside circumference to take just the surface off, and it would tightly wiggle on the IGH body (wiht the IGH's actual input sprocket removed temporarily).

Then I used a mechanical pencil to mark where all the spoke holes would be on the sprocket. I can't drill thru the sprocket; it's too hard for my bits (especially the tiny ones I'd have to use for this), but I can cut slots that line up with the sprocket holes, and since the ID of the sprocket fits the IGH so tightly, it won't wiggle around out of round.

I only have 6 nuts for the screws that are small enough to go thru the spoke holes in teh flange (though I have at least a dozen of the screws, all of this saved off of something I took apart for pieces ages ago). So I only cut 6 slots; if I have troulbe with it in use during testing I'll cut more slots and figure out what to use to secure it. (other than welding, which I would rather not do).

Remounted the IGH, and shortened the original chain from the rear end to the cranks so it now fits the IGH. Tension there is adjusted by moving the IGH forward in the dropouts a bit; was almost perfect at the most rearward position (just luck, not planning). Chain also clears both under and over the frame with the IGH where it is, which is also more luck than planning. :oops:
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I had a chain I was going to use for the front, but it is a multi-gear chain, and is too narrow to fit over the IGH's input sprocket. :( So I used the remainder of the chain from the above step, plus another small length leftover from when I first put this together a year and a half ago, and made one just long enough to use with a derailer and all three chainrings of the cranks, to let me try an experiment.

Once I had all the chains on, I dug out a basic derailer, and installed that at the IGH, to keep the input sprocket and chain aligned and to to take up the slack of the pedal chain. This will allow me to experiment with the front sprocket size by manually moving it from ring to ring, to find the best balance of pedal without power vs doing more than ghost pedalling while motoring along, or even just end up leaving it this way, to be able to switch between them as needed.
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I beefed up the tack welds, so they would hold up to pedal torque, and took it out for a test ride around hte yard. I found I could not start pedalling at all in the "overdrive" gear (rod pushed in partway), even on the smallest front chainring. In the underdrive gear of the IGH, (rod pushed in farthest), I could start pedalling relatively easily, though it still hurt to get started, it didnt' hurt that bad to keep going around the yard, in smallest front chainring.

To see what effect the Shimano Biopace rings I prefer would have, I swapped them in.
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(I also had to change out the cartridge BB I tried first, because it has a really bad bearing that allwos it to wiggle around a lot; I went with the older style with bearings in cages instead, pulled off the Diamondback Coil frame from Mdd0127 that I used to test the Fusin geared kit with). The Biopace are larger rings by several teeth, but I hoped teh differnet shape would help enough to make up for that.

It didn't, exactly, but it did help even though they are not being used at the angle they were designed for (sinc I am not standing over them, but am seated behind them, it changes the way they work). To really work correctly and help the most, I would need to somehow rotate the chainrings around the crank spider. I don't reall have a good idea on how I could do that with what I have around here, not easily.

Another issue is that ATM the BB is too far down and forward, so I can't really push all the way down without sitting on the edge of the seat.

But still, first mission accomplished: to let me pedal the trike around without power if I have to. Previously I could sort of do this, with extreme effort, for short lengths, and the one time I *had* to pedal home a couple miles I almost killed myself with the pain and effort, and that was only half the distance I was going to have to go if I hadn't been able to recharge at that point. It still wont' be easy, but it will be possible.

I still need an even lower gear, which I can get by going back to the small chainrings on the steel crank, but I'd like an even lower gear than that.

So....what I *could* do is to use a larger input gear on the IGH, by bolting a larger sprocket onto the existing one. (or weld onto it, if I have to). I went ahead and bolted a 28t onto the 20t, using four 1/4-20 bolts, but I'm not sure how it will hold up, as it's only the bolt tension keeping it in-round. Can't test it till tomorrow, because it's 1am and I can't use the grinder to cut off the excess bolt length that interferes with the chainstay and dropout. :(

But I'm most of the way there.

Once I'm done with the testing phase, I'll be cutting the BB off the chainstays, and moving it from the front of the frame into the space where the old one was, but above and forward of it. I might have to notch the main "downtube" to install it, but I'll avoid that if I can.

The IGH won't have any support then, so before I do that I need to bend the seatstay stubs I left on there and add a bit more (turned out kinda short) so they will be welded to the "toptube" above the IGH, and then add tubes at teh bottom rear of the dropouts to connect to the "downtube" below the IGH. Then I can remove the former chainstays. It may not be a sstrong horizontally this way, so it might require design changes later once it's tested in actual use...but I don't expect to ahve to put a lot of pedal torque thru it very often; it's really only a backup...albeit a complex one. :oops:

I also considered adding a front derailer, but there's no easy way to mount one; I'd have to weld in a tube to clamp it to, or weld it to the frame itself, or make a bracket, etc.
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Further changes will include:

--extending the cargo rack to meet the back of the seat again, and moving the "trunk" forward with it.

--moving the forward rack supports so they don't connect to the fenders, but rather to the frame below the seat, which will be extended outward to line up with the outer rear frame, and forward to almost meet the front edge of the seat again.

--extending the cargo bed area forward as well.

--putting the battery box(es) behind the seat to either side, about where they were but turned lengthwise, behind the accessory/tool/etc boxes. The one on the left side will be joined by a similar one on the right, which unfortunately is too tall to be mounted upright unless I move the frame down. I might be able to do that, though, and I'll do it on both sides if I do.
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--I considered moving the whole cargo bed down, but the "axle" will still cut thru it at the original height, unless I totally cut apart and rebuild the frame, so that's not likely to happen anytime soon.

--reweld the bolts for the trailer hitch frame on there, more forward than they are now, as I don't need it to stick out as far backward for a kennel/crate since that can go more forward now, too, with the seat moved.

The one thing I'm not sure about yet is cutting away the angled down/rearward "seatstays" that presently connect the seat area with the rear frame, and probably give significant stiffness to the system. Once I move the forward rack supports, they may not be needed anymore, though, so we'll see. If I don't cut them away, then I still cant' use most of the forward cargo deck area for big stuff (like dog crates), just the areas to eithe rside and above them, which defeats a good part of why i am doing this.

by amberwolf
Feb 19 2016 4:50am
Forum: E-Bike Technical
Topic: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier
Replies: 999
Views: 149098

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Shinko moped tires, and some moped/mc tubes, are on the way, ETA mid/late next week. (earlier would be better, but there were no options for shipping faster, only the free "standard" shipping).

I've been piling up parts I'll need to build the new trailer for Yogi, tubing, the wire crate/kennel, etc. I am not yet sure if I am going to just cut the original trailer to make the new wider/longer one, or leave it alone so I can still just use it with the plastic crate/kennel.

Probably I'll just start over from scratch, cuz I have some ideas to try out that won't be as easy if I modify the existing one (and if they don't work out, I can't go back easily or quickly to a working trailer).

Either way, I will almost certainly take the hitch and tongue off the MkIII trailer and use it on the new version, just because it is heavier duty, and replace it with the skinnier lighter duty one I had bought the day of the housefire (but didn't run across again until after I'd bought the new one).

That stuff will be over in a trailer thread, either the MkIII thread here if I mod that: ... el+trailer
or a new MkIV thread if I start a new one.

On the trike itself, a list of things I would like to do, in no particular order:

--finish the rack rebuild. Easy enough, just a few hours' work, I'd guess.

--Finish the wiring harness for the lighting bar, and mounts for it to put it at the seat back, the cargo bed, or the rear rack.

--change out the front turn signals (remove old plastic ones, replace with tougher chrome ones).

--Rewire much of the trike, with consistent wiring (rather than spliced scraps) that's hidden in the frame or covers over it.

--make the actual covers, with rivnuts in the frame to be able to screw them on, for the front frame "triangle", and the fenders, etc. (rather than the coroplast I'm presently using).

--build a new front suspension "fork" out of a rear linkage swingarm and an old steel front fork (for it's crown and steerer); this will let me use any of the rear hubmotors I have, including the disk-brake-capable Fusin "1000w" geared hub taht's already in a 26" wheel. I've got the suspension part (with a crappy spring) from a mongoose "hatchet" I think it is called. If I can find it, I had an old heavy junk suspension fork, that is a double-crown type, that i can use the top part of the legs, the steerer, and the clamps, to weld the legs to the suspension frame bits to give it something to pivot from. Haven't seen it since the housefire, though, so it might be gone.

--change the scooter headlight out for the car one the mount is meant for, and wire up a new switch for it's bright/dim filaments.

--build a "canopy" I can mount along with the windshield, for bad weather, or hot weather, etc., to shield me a little while riding.

--add a tailgate (for cargo retention) / ramp (for the dogs), and extend the fenders on their outer edges to make more of a containment of the cargo area at the back. There've been a number of times I used it without the crate/kennel on there, for cargo trips, where such containment would've been useful, as straps just didn't quite really hold stuff down as securely as I'd've liked, without that.

--rework the center frame and seat supports and cargo bed frame front end to better fit "trunk space" and batteries in there.

--make actual trays to secure the batteries in place, with locking covers that make it easy enough for me to change them out when needed, but secure enough to not be easy to just walk away with.

--add a 3-speed IGH (or two in series if necessary) to the pedal drivetrain, and regear the cranks so I can actually pedal along with the motor usefully, *and* still pedal it unpowered, albeit extremely slowly.

--Change the cranks out from the ashtabula type to the 3-piece square taper type, and move the BB and the seat forward a couple of inches, at least (as much as I can). This will also mean shortening the tiller tube on the steering. Doing these things will move the center of mass forward, making it better at keeping the front wheel traction good under non-ideal conditions (which it doesnt' do right now). It'll also take a bit of load off the back wheels, which should help them for durability, etc. I'll probably leave the old BB itself in place, so that I can change back to that if I have to. (and not actually cut the tiller tube at first, just move the bars forward on it) Might ahve to make the seat bolt-on instead of welded.

--re-lace the left motor into the new rim from Ypedal.

--Add stops to the righthand dropouts to ensure the axle/wheel always has a bit of negative camber, which might help with wheel stresses a bit, compared to completely vertical, for sideloads, since I turn pretty hard with this thing several times on every commute, twice a day.

--Add rim v-brakes in back (already have a cable installed for them to a lever up on the bars).

--switch out the seat padding for some new's old and not really much padding anymore.

--make teh "dashboard" with switches and stuff, and a moutn for the CA, on the bars.

--make "brushguards" on the bars to block wind from my hands for cold nights, and rainy days, and vegetation (usually trees or bushes) taht grow out over the road in some places.

Keep finding myself dozing, posting the above list now so it doen't get lost, and will add ot it as I recall mor ideas.
by amberwolf
Jul 15 2015 2:42pm
Forum: E-Bike Technical
Topic: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier
Replies: 999
Views: 149098

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

If my brain had worked and I'd taken the other packwith me like I meant to, my battery *would* have been big enough. :lol: :oops:

The didn't help but it wasn't what kept me from pedalling home. The two things that did that were:

--me (my joints and my unpowerful muscles that aren't used to doing that anymore),


--gearing. If I had a lower gear I could've kept spinning the pedals and crept along. Would've taken a long time but I could've kept going instead of stopping for longer than I moved, albeit at a really slow speed.

I don't know what the exact gearing is right now...but I think it's something like 36 on the front, maybe 34, then 18 on teh shaft, then 16 on the rear 20" wheel. So a 3-speed IGH in the driveline somewhere with a 1:1 center gear, and underdrive and overdrive might've given me both enough pedal output to help at faster speeds in the 8-10MPH range where the motor would still do most of the work, and also the ability to pedal it slowly without the motor, for longer than I could at the more direct input gearing I have now.

As for the solar...I'm not sure cuz I haven't done the numbers, but I don't think that anything smaller than one or two or three of those "big" panels, like the "kit" HF sells with panels like around a foot and a half by three feet or similar, would have enough output to charge the pack any (and they'd have to be either wired in series right across the pack's charge input, or I'd have to have an MPPT that has a 58.4V output from whatever teh panel input is).

The data below is approximations based on the little info I have gathered by watching the WattsUP in non-traffic areas; I don't have the WU on there all the time either, just when testing (and yesterday for the long trip to keep track of Ah).

At full acceleration, both motors, it takes about 60A for several seconds to get me going to 20MPH, where either motor alone will keep me going at about 9A or so.

At low acceleration to only 10MPH or so, helping it as much as I can with the pedals for the first few MPH, it still takes >20A with just one motor, dropping over a few seconds to about 6A or a little more.