severely assaulted while ebiking

[Lebowski]

Reading all this I cannot believe my eyes. I've never heard of or seen any of the things you guys talk
about. OK, some may say Switzerland is boring but it is very very safe compared to what you guys
write here.
Maybe it has to do with it being a very closed society here. Foreigners are not readely accepted here
and it is very difficult to get in (and easy to get thrown out). Here it is still very normal for an old
granny to make 'behave' noises to loud youngsters on the train for instance.
I don't know why this is though. Maybe 'cause nobody is really poor here. There are big differences
in income but not as extreme as in the US, I think the whole 'poor' layer of society is missing.
Also switzerland is awash with guns, and not little peashooters but semi and full automatic assault
rifles (got 2 myself). You're not going to break into a house when there's a 50/50 change of looking down the
wrong end of a gun.
And, to be honest, the UK has quite a bad reputation as far as for Europe goes (except for France
maybe), I don't think any other country here has seen mass-riotes like in the UK or France.
Even the riots are organised here in switzerland by the way, it's common knowledge here that there
are some minor riots in Zurich on the 1st of May (labor day) but only on that specific day, the rest
of the year it's quiet...

Maybe in the US there's a big difference between living in a small town or a big city as far as the
agression towards cyclists is concerned ?

[neptronix]

1) Single parent households ( where the 1 parent usually is working and doesn't have time for the kid, so in other words, no parents. Or they are a total loser and on welfare. ) - you can be a good single parent, but the odds are against you and there is a >95% chance that this will negatively effect the kids..
2) Youth unemployment - it's wickedly high, above 50% in some areas. If you are a minority, this is even higher.
3) Shitty economy - to a young person it appears to be way easier to go sell drugs, steal stuff, and generally be a punkass. When there aren't better options, people with weak morals will edge in this direction.
4) Break down of the nuclear family unit, though i guess that ties into #1.. but the family structure is important!
5) No respect or fear of police or legal system - this is because the lawmen can be as bad as the criminals themselves, and even young people know this.
6) Drug criminalization - gangs' primary source of income is selling and trafficking drugs. Much like the rise and decline of the mafia in times of the prohibition, this is exactly what's going on with gangs.

But IMHO it all comes down to economy and economic policy. Think about the old times...
When you had your kids / family working in a coal mine ( or some other equally shitty job ), they did not have time or energy to run around and be dickbags.
Drugs & alcohol weren't illegal back then, so there were no business opportunities for gangs.
We did not have welfare or social programs, so you had to work and make an honest living or you starved.
There was a codependence with you and your neighbors in times of need. So you did not burn those bridges.

I can't explain the negative attitude towards cyclists. I think there are not enough of us though and if we were to travel in larger groups, we'd be safer.

[neptronix]

Lebowski, kicking out the bad people is probably why your country works so well.

We do not scrub our gene pool out here. America is where the lowest common denominator hangs out. There is also tons of poverty here. I would not say that poverty is the norm, but there is enough of it that it seems that way. Then we also have this highly capitalistic attitude which basically states that if you are poor, you are a lesser being. So very few people are content to be poor and the younger people will usually resort to crime to feel better or appear richer.

( Just look at rap videos.... )

[Jeremy Harris]

The UK situation is well revealed in the longtime Murdoch, Police. and yes the Prime ministers office total corruption and opened floodgates of multinationals just as here ,effectively contributing to the ethnic cleansing phenomenon we see everywhere even Norway where the gunman simply accelerated an already established pattern. Heeeelp!!!!

Murdoch was born Australian and now holds joint Australian and American citizenship, I believe. He is not, and has never been, a UK citizen, to the best of my knowledge. I believe that the FBI are currently investigating him, something we cannot do here as he isn't British, but does hold American citizenship.

Norway is a odd case, as the Scandinavian countries have been a popular destination for refugees from the Middle East for the past few years, because the social security and public health care provision in some Scandinavian countries is amongst the best in the world, meaning they will get looked after there. This has, unsurprisingly, created severe tensions in the young in places like Norway, who feel, rightly or wrongly, that immigrants have adversely impacted the labour market, and hence their own job opportunities.

As for corruption here, then I'd have to say that compared with places like the US, where buying political power is absolutely normal, we have virtually none. When we do have the odd case of behaviour that's possibly corrupt we sack the people involved and even send them to prison (as we have done with several politicians in the past few years). How many corrupt politicians has the US locked up recently?

[Jeremy Harris]

Lebowski, kicking out the bad people is probably why your country works so well.

We do not scrub our gene pool out here. America is where the lowest common denominator hangs out. There is also tons of poverty here. I would not say that poverty is the norm, but there is enough of it that it seems that way. Then we also have this highly capitalistic attitude which basically states that if you are poor, you are a lesser being. So very few people are content to be poor and the younger people will usually resort to crime to feel better or appear richer.

( Just look at rap videos.... )

I'll have to admit to being incredibly shocked at the level of poverty in some parts of the US. Years ago, when working in Florida, I decided to drive inland, and get away from the coastal cities. The level of poverty I saw in some of the shanty towns and big trailer parks around the orange and sugar plantations was a real shock - I had no idea people were living in the US in such conditions, it was a bit of an eye opener.

[The fingers]

My sister lived and worked in Gridewald for a couple of years, very different from here indeed. Out west we have many derelect vehicles and unlicensed drivers without insurance. Courtesy is rare on the street and bicycles are an easy target for frustrated drivers suffering from road rage. As for our corrupt politicians, we've got them all locked in that minimum security Federal Prison called the US Congressional Capitol Building.

[Lebowski]

Tja, here in Switzerland , the poor middlen eastern family would just not get in. Maybe dad finds a job (impossible cause of racism and prohibitive labor law) and the family can live here. Dad loses his job > 3 month grace period and then they`re kicked out.
In my native Holland its different, mainly because of the guild felt over our history and the many (exploited) colonies we had. Same i guess for the UK. Switzerland, afaik, never had any colonies.

But a big thing here is also the way things are dealt with. If you call the police for whatever (let say noisy youth outside), by law they have to come and deal with it. The police are not allowed to go 'the kids will go away in a few minutes' and not do anything. No, they have to come to investigate. By law.
Second thing, ther's no mercy here. Lets say a kid is into graffiti and sprays his tag everywhere. The city hall will send out a professional cleaning company to clean up,after photographs are taken. The bill gets filed together with the pictures. If they find the kid spraying a certain tag, the family will get all the cleaning bills. If this is in the $10000 to $100000 range, no mercy, sell your house and/or be bankrupted.
I still remember, a few years ago it was in the news that some kids scratched up some cars walking home from school. They were caught and each family got a $20000 bill.
On the one hand you can say it is very hard and tough, on the other hand, Switzerland is really safe. And has a high suicide rate, probably `cause some people cannot deal with the high level pressure from society to conform

[neptronix]

As for corruption here, then I'd have to say that compared with places like the US, where buying political power is absolutely normal, we have virtually none. When we do have the odd case of behaviour that's possibly corrupt we sack the people involved and even send them to prison (as we have done with several politicians in the past few years). How many corrupt politicians has the US locked up recently?

Crony capitalism is a big problem here. Our founding fathers never considered it. They did not write anything about separating business from state - even if they did, these days our constitution is more of a 2 ply roll used in the bathroom

Being corrupt is labeled as 'working with businesses' here to such an absurd extent.. we are basically like Russia, where politicians basically aren't ashamed of being corrupt or abusive of their power at all.

We haven't sent enough corrupt politicians to jail lately. For one, there have been some pretty high level war criminals holding office for the past few decades. About 90% of congress is basically bought by corporate influence and follows no principles at all other than 'serve the corporate/industrial masters'.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/index.php

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contrib.php?cycle=2012&id=N00009638

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contrib.php?cycle=2012&id=N00000286

^--- Jeremy, just look at how we elect people. Whoever can grab the most money typically wins because they can afford the best campaign and market themselves the best..

[Harold in CR]

To Chessir--
I'm not trying to be mean or put you down, but, you need to get lessons in self defense and Man up.

A good case, down here, a couple years ago, a group of Tourists landed on a Cruise ship, in Limon. That's another Vegas style city. Good areas and bad, mostly of the darker persuasion. As the group was waiting for the Tour Bus to arrive, 3 punks came up and started robbing the group of sheep. Problem is, one was a RAM- A RETIRED MARINE, who promptly broke the neck of the most aggressive of the 3, and as he hit the ground, deader than a turd, the other 2 broke and ran. Police were called, and, after investigating, ( another joke) the group was told to enjoy their stay.

MOST attackers are cowards, especially those that attack from behind. Recently, there are robberies on the Busses. I ride the Busses, and, if someone wants to rob me, they better be prepared to get their nuts drove up to their tonsils and then I will put them out like a cigarette. I don't give a shit about ANYONE that wants to cause me harm.

I saw the difference in attitudes and the races, as I was leaving Viet Nam and came back to the world. I am TOTALLY qualified to handle myself, even at near 68 years old. There is always pick-pocketing going on. I nearly lost my wallet one time, BUT, if I ever catch someone trying to pick me, I WILL rob them, strip them naked, kick their sorry asses, and throw all THEIR stuff into the crowd. Police be damned. They know whats going on, just prefer to not have to do anything about it.

I know there are some here, that are of African Heritage, so, I hope they are not offended by what I say, but, there HAS to be extermination of a majority of these lawless thugs. I don't mean random, but, Drug dealers, users, killers, rapists, violence of ANY kind. You read about people being arrested and they are on the streets within a couple of hours. They have a list of violations longer than they are tall.

The Judicial system HAS to be the first place to start. Judges are wimps, Lawyers are only after the $$$$ and prisons are vacation spots. IF a judge releases a rapist, because some cop didn't dot an I or cross a T, that rapist should be confined IN that judges house, for a minimum of 30 days. I would bet THAT will grow some hair on these judges asses.

A good case is Clinton. In impeachment hearings, he was asked about something and his comment was, "that depends on what the definition of IS is. Most people laughed and he got away with his impeachment hearing , so he stayed in office. NO ONE CARES, anymore. I moved here for economic reasons, after my pension was sacked by Wall Street thugs. I live on next to nothing, BUT, what I have is MINE and I'll be DAMNED if any SOB is going to deprive me of a decent life. We need NO A/C No Heat, about to be on an E-Bike, and OFF grid, nearly, so, make up your mind to DO something. Sell whatever you have, MOVE to a better area, rural is usually better, learn how to GET BY, if needed, and enjoy what few years you have left. Land is affordable here. You are single. There are thousands of educated, intelligent women here. I married one of them. She takes excellent care of me. She has a friend looking for a GODD American man. She is tired of Ticos. Want an introduction ???

My sincere apologies to ANYONE That I may have offended, or not, depending on your own political and liberal views.

We can carry this much further in PM's, if anyone is interested. Don't call names and I will respond. BE CIVIL.

That's MY take on how to get Heelllp.

[chessir]

This thread is progressing better than I had even hoped. It could lead to the joyfull resumption of bicycling for everyone including this senior citizen who busted his rear through the educational system only to find enormous anxiety as the middle class in the US is practically decimated. What class to be decimated will be left?? -Pray-tell. the current state of profound antibicyclism unfortunately leads me to conclude this thread should run in all subthreads for the survival of ebiking. Unless I see near term action my injuries will just prevent resumption of ebiking anywhere. The best way I see is for us to go on Youtube producing a viral video elaborating the excruciating plight of the bicyclist and the horrendous experiences here. Anybody game for this approach. We need all the really heavy hitters in on this. Youtube went viral with the lame experience of the elderly somewhat deaf lady being verbally tormented. There was some immediate and profound action which we need.
Meanwhile "Heeeelp"

[neptronix]

I know you are a senior citizen at this point, but if you are able, it would be advisable to move, for sure.

I have moved from state to state trying to find the place that provides me with the best bicycling environment. I am about to move to Salt Lake City, Utah, where they have a huge biking infrastructure due to the missionaries. They also have an economy that is doing very good. I am not a religious person but i appreciate that the local mormonfolk subscribe to the nuclear family ideal. I think their ideas are kooky but at least they raise their kids well.

I've been in many bike-unfriendly places, had shit thrown at me, honked at ( even by cops! ) on the road where there is no bike lane, and i am done with that after 13 years of bike commuting. If a place does not have a bike infrastructure, i will not live there, period.

Vote with your feet if you can. If you live in a place where the police are do-nothings, where you are not safe on a bike, then when you move, they no longer receive your tax dollars. You in essence are saying 'i am boycotting you because you suck'.

[chessir]

To Harold in CR:

You should be much more thoughtfull about attacking the manly prowess of this senior citizen. For your information, I took many years of Karate in college . I have been manly in this situation for decades. A nearby married couple both with karate Black Belts were hacked and murdered by a crazy , hammerwielding monster who totally surprised them from behind. This occurred not very long ago. So you owe me an appology for insulting a members intelligence and manly prowess. As for my romantic prowess i have made marriage offers and lately have come to the conclusion that too many are looking for a Tiger Woods family they can decimate and embarass the entire nation before an international audience only to write a profitable book. Sorry to be so truthfull but it is the only way to heal what's wrong. Even the president's life was inately endangered by the unfaithfull sexual ambitions of the top-paid elite echelon security personnell. So please do not lecture me on marriage, sex, and women. We're here to rescue bicycling not to get our intelligence and manhood insulted.
i too became a victim of wall street insider maniacs, like Madman Madoff among others causing the worldwide financial disaster. Even our legislators were so embarrassed with insider trading among the elected officials that they were forced to set aside many valuable hours krafting anti insider trading laws for their own members of congress and/or senate - and this only just recently. Should have been passed at least a quarter century ago so I could have married and have a family. Please refrain from assuming ignorance of bicycling's equivalent Paul Revere and give me your due appology.

[deVries]

I 2nd word for word what BigMoose posted, and I pretty much agree with Neptronix's ideas. Our ES CR friend is a Bad Ass that will kick someone's butt that gives him any sheeit. Admire his Live Free or Die Spirit 100%.

Now, I'm going to give you some practical advice:

1) Decide on your routes ahead of time, so you can pass through the safest areas at the safest times. I guarantee you if you travel on weekends before 9am (or maybe 10am) round-trip, then you're going to avoid all the punk-ass creeps doing the road rage & physical violence. These jackasses just went to bed before you went to ride. People are just not all wound-up for a fight early in the morning too. Less frantic, more rested, more focused, so less risk to you!

2) If you can afford it, then get some hidden hi-rez video playing when you go out riding. That way, if/when you are attacked from behind the video should survive for prosecution and/or lawsuit too.

3) Do option "one" above on weekdays if you must, though the optimal morning time should be adjusted for your local traffic. Finish everything by 11am.

4) Riding later in the day opens you to any kind of violence, so about all you can do is pick the safest time & route to avoid these incidents. Snaking through 'quiet' neighborhoods is much better than using the usual through-traffic streets where the hoodlums will hang-out to assure themselves of victims.

If you think your crime was racist in nature, then maybe dress to camouflage yourself so it's not easy to detect your race... long leg/arm clothing & full face helmet.

I agree that a gun is not likely to help you, since your attacker is likely to catch you by surprise & overpower you. They might decide to use the gun on you & take it too!

It's a jungle out there, so know when/where the predators are likely to be. Just avoid these monsters when possible.

[SamTexas]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune.

[Green Machine]

Chessir,

Sorry this hear this happened to you. Sorry to bring it up but i was wondering on some actual details of the crime. I missed it but did they actually steal your bike after they knocked you down? Why did they beat you afterwards? DId you put up a fight to not let them take your bike?

How fast were you going when they knocked you over? I have heard of people being knocked off their bikes and the bike ridden off with...but why in this case did they beat you after knocking you off? Were you still hanging onto the bike?

How was the one guy able to catch you? Were you travelling at low speed? Did you hear him running up on you did you have any chance of throttling and getting away?

I know when i ride through bad neighborhoods i deliberately ride fast and if its at night with my lights off so no one can catch me on foot.

Maybe the answer is we all ride with slightly faster bikes...with at least the power of some get away juice when we need it.

[Kin]

I am sad you were assaulted. I can't pretend it wouldn't make me furious, terrified, and all manner of confused.

This thread kind of scares me, though, and I think it rapidly managed to become a cesspool. .

Individual assault is very bad. Abject stereotyping is arguably more damaging. -Is it just me or is there a lot of broad stroke demonizing on this thread?


There's a lot of shit in america. More poverty of many levels that people don't acknowledge. We have suburban segregation. I live in a safe neighborhood, 10 miles from a very dangerous one, but am perfectly fine where I live. Thing is, it's f*cked up that there's a place 10 miles away where you're liable to be killed or at the least dangerously assaulted at the wrong time of day. But it's a complex situation. No one benefits from pretending this is a simple situation of bad guys vs. good guys. The irony is that where people have least is the most thievery and violence.

I think dmnun had a very good quote:

if you really are this naive, or think carrying a gun will help, you should move to the other side of town. if you really did fot for something like you say, you would understand where the hate is coming from.

I would say his quote is good because I'm really not convinced it's helping you much to have a gun. Maybe you associate having a gun with having kept you safe- or maybe it's just the fact that high violence or not, there's still a statistically low chance of being assaulted. Until you have to use a gun, it's only kept you marginally safe; when you do, I think it's hardly the ideal outcome to have to kill or permanently maim someone who assaulted you because of some f*cked social paradigm. Rarely is it as plain as there being evil people out there.


Edit: I hope my own response is not offending anyone. I think I did get riled up pretty quickly. I acknowledge there's some decent advice here about playing it safe, and taking some small active measures to ensure you're minimizing the risk of assault. This is prudent. I'm not against it. I guess there were some stray remarks here and there that set me off.

[Harold in CR]

My sincere apologies to ANYONE That I may have offended,

From original post .

[Kin]

My sincere apologies to ANYONE That I may have offended,

From original post .

Very true, uhm, my sincerest apologies to anyone that I might have offended in never-the-less being worried about the tendencies within good natured people's complex reactions. It's not just about being offended- because I'm not sure I'm particularly offended. I'm just more concerned.

[chessir]

Although commenting is encouraged to keep this thread alive, I am aghast at the lack of logical principles being violated. If the Subject then the antecedent follows the object. Statements such as " It is probably not related to ebiking " show lack of understanding that whatever the reason , this painfull assault occurred while ebiking. The while ebiking or for that matter any biking form becomes the critical suspect.
All I was doing was occassional ebiking, taking difficult care of a disabled brother and two most adorable cats which now I have to terminate humanely to minimize exposure. All I can play now are classical funeral
pieces on my guitar.
I can see what Paul Revere faced when posses saddled-up to teach him not to come with bad news and to come with roses instead. These individuals or apologists do not help the cause by "apologizing" for the crime as I get from police constantly. "Hear no evil"-"See no evil"-"Speak no evil" I get so often even from family members.

[neptronix]

welcome to endless sphere, dude. This place is kind of a nuthouse. Not that i'd have it any other way

[chessir]

hey Nep,

Don't you think my above comments show how the country got in the current mess we're in and you're lovin it? if only you knew how many millions of your countrymen and women are suffering the same distress at the hands of our inhuman financial system and are forced to take up biking for survival?

[mdd0127]

chessir,

Your posts scream crazy person that regularly plays the victim. No offense intended but this is how I see it.

You were either in the wrong place at the wrong time or you initiated this attack in some way. It may have been because of the way you handled a situation that happened months ago that you don't remember or it could have been just a totally random act of violence. We will never know. This very likely had absolutely nothing to do with e-bikes or bikes in general. You probably would have been attacked even if you were walking, riding a skateboard, pretty much anything...... If you were riding a stick pony or a broom though, you probably would have been left alone

Harold in CR gave you some great suggestions and even offered to set you up with a beautiful Puerto Rican woman and you took offense at his posts and misunderstood most of them. He made some very good points about how to handle yourself in encounters with desperate, ignorant, violent people. Traveling through the ghetto is just like walking into a room full of strange dogs. If you act scared, you will probably be attacked.

I have lived in terrible neighborhoods for most of my life. Early on, before I knew how to handle myself around dangerous animals, I got shot at, beaten, stolen from, etc. At some point, I figured out how to act around people with bad intentions and I have had zero issues since. Body language is extremely important. I can walk down the street in any ghetto in the world and not be harassed. The secret is to show no fear, only show confidence. Be respectful but not overly friendly. Don't stare at anyone but make sure to look them in the eyes if they're looking at you. Smile. Give people staring you down a little wave and or a wink. Make them think that it would make your day to get the chance to rip one of them apart. Ghetto people are scared of crazy people. Practice your crazy face in a mirror if you have to. Be aware of your surroundings and don't let yourself get surrounded. Run only if you absolutely have to and know where you're going when you do. If things start going badly and you are feeling threatened by someone that's put themselves into your personal space, make an example out of them if you have to. Fight dirty if you have to.

Whatever you do, don't act like a victim and you probably won't become one.

[neptronix]

hey Nep,

Don't you think my above comments show how the country got in the current mess we're in and you're lovin it? if only you knew how many millions of your countrymen and women are suffering the same distress at the hands of our inhuman financial system and are forced to take up biking for survival?

No, this is just a small forum with a few hundred members who are actually active, and you are seeing a small cross-section of THAT population talking here.

I love this forum, not necessarily the opinions expressed, but the freedom we have here and also the diversity of opinion. There are also some really brilliant minds on here as well.

Gosh, why have you taken up biking for survival? why weren't you doing it before? i put 90% of my miles on my bike voluntarily even though i own 2 cars, and could certainly do without the 2 cars ( both old mid 90's Japanese beaters ) ...

If you do not enjoy eBiking and see it as being far better than driving a car, maybe you need a better eBike. Or if possible, move to an area with better weather that makes eBiking easier to do year round.

[chessir]

Hi mdd0127,

Thanx for posting. But I beg to totally differ with respect to "there are no victims" . I understand your saying don't play victim and find it insightfull. I consulted elaborate and lengthy senior citizen victim relief brochures enumerating numerous supposed resources and after studying them very carefully and calling reps concluded they're absolute BS and mostly taxpayer rippoffs once again. My country ain't got no victims says the treasury- Hah. So sorry to hear of your past experiences and requisite dodgings.

[Arlo1]

What makes seemingly large areas of the US so violent?

I have my opinion Jeremy. I think it is the overall breakdown of the family, which ushered in a socio economic sub group who knew no loving support, or patriarchal boundaries in their early lives. They grew physically stronger and older, but with the outlook, will and temperament of a unschooled child. They view respectable people as prey, who "stole" their future unfairly. It is a group based on "might" makes right... they cluster together in gangs for mutual support. Their culture is very dangerous to "normal" society. This will not "end well" if nuclear families continue to disintegrate. Take away family ties and a being becomes absorbed with "self..."

Of course I have an opinion on why the family imploded... but that is for another time and place.

Note that I am a coal miner's grandson, and I still have pictures of my family in very, very poor circumstances. Those pictures contain family friends from quite a few races and cultures. The stories I was told were that those other kids behaved just like my parents in school and at home. I have proof in my own family tree that race and $ are not the core for a civilized society...

Note to chessir: In my state they will notify you by mail if you are rejected for a CCW, but if you are accepted you just call them in 3 days and make an appointment to go pick up your permit. They do not contact you if you "pass."

Yeh I think a lot of peoples problems stem from the family or lack there of as well. I think its a 90-100% of the worlds problem starter. Its hard to watch so many people have kids and then split up. The idocracy thing is a big part of this as well but how do you limit people who have kids based on IQ??? lol