DC motors over 10 killowatt

That YASA motor will be VERY expensive and way too powerful for a conventional bike frame, wheels , etc.
To realise the power potential , you would need ~50+kg of the best LiPo cells ($10k + ?) and a similar cost again in controllers, and chargers
That is before you start thinking about wheel / tyre set up to get enough traction...(spokes won't last long !)
Quite probably $50k to put it on the track.
Basically that means a 200+lb of "bike" without rider......not like any bike you have ever seen !
 
What would 10 6s bricks do 222 volts with a controller and the Yuasa motor.
Would it go 10 seconds on the quarter mile.
 
If not then its time to look for a more suitable 10 second motor. Something about 72 - 92 volts.
 
Ok I got it. the Yasa motor wont work for an E bike, and the Motenergy motor is not what it says it is, so that leaves us with other choices for a 10 second motor. What are those other choices.
96 volts is about as high as I want to go of 4- 6s bricks. These

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=66487

That's 88.8 volts. That is what will power the 10 second quarter mile motor. Not shure what bike I will use but will need weight in the front so the wheel stays on the ground. Probably mount the Lipo
bricks towards the front of the triangle. Mabye put the controller in a front basket. I might get a Haro for the 10 second bike. I was told they are the best bikes ever made. Sounds like a plan so where is a motor that will work. Less than 50 pounds. more than 40 horsepower should work right? please let me know.
Thanks Latecurtis out.
 
Hillhater said:
220 is way out of the YASA motors operating range, so no knowing what power, or rpm you might end up with.
....if any ! :roll:


Yasa's are only that voltage range due to making series coil connections.

If you terminated one with parallel coil connections it would operate at no performance penalty at logical voltages. This pointless ultra high voltage shenanigans is an artifact of the immaturity of the current state of EV drive systems.
 
Not sure if OP is highly successful troll or really just that ignorant of all that goes into a forward moving vehicle, let alone one that can cover the 1/4 mile in <11 seconds.

The multistar batteries you linked to can certainly push out the power required to go 120mph, however you will need a lot more of them, at least wired five in parallel, 4 in series for a total of 20x 16ah packs. This is probably being very generous with their abilities. These are large capacity, low power batteries and really not suited to drag racing.

There's no way you could 'mount them towards the front of the triangle' - this is 85+lb of battery.

To push the sort of power required to the motor you're going to require something like 2x Sevcon Size 6 controllers, this is another 25+LB of controller and wiring.

You're not going to be able to put down more than 10 horsepower to the tire on anything resembling a standard bicycle without flipping it over. I struggle to keep the front wheel on the ground launching with a mere 7kw. Running 40KW+ bicycle tires are out, you will shred them apart very quickly. Not to mention risky running anything that thin over 120mph. At some point as you increase weight over the front, correct geometry and increase wheel base the limiting factor will become tire traction rather than likelihood of wheelies. At this point you have the possibility of baking the rear with wheelspin at the worst moment and crashing in a far worse and higher speed fashion. LFP has a lot of experience with riding fast two wheel vehicles, building electric ones, works in the industry and has come the closest I'm aware of to running in the 10's with something vaguely bicycle shaped with an 11.5. Shaving off that extra .5 of a second is not as easy as you might think.

Frankly finding a motor to supply the power is probably the easiest piece of the whole puzzle to solve.

If you're sincere and not trolling, go spend a month reading about batteries, controllers, motors and the practicalities of building a functional bike that goes, turns, stops and handles safely. Build one, race it and then improve. If you can actually build something that runs the 1/4 mile in <20 seconds I'll be pleasantly surprised.
 
Ohbse said:
LFP has a lot of experience with riding fast two wheel vehicles, building electric ones, works in the industry and has come the closest I'm aware of to running in the 10's with something vaguely bicycle shaped with an 11.5. Shaving off that extra .5 of a second is not as easy as you might think.


While I agree with you that generally it's extremely difficult to go from 11.5 to 11.0, in this particular case my next bicycle iteration will be a fairly easy addition of a second sevcon size6, and should result in single digit quarter mile times (or my death).
 
liveforphysics said:
Hillhater said:
220 is way out of the YASA motors operating range, so no knowing what power, or rpm you might end up with.
....if any ! :roll:


Yasa's are only that voltage range due to making series coil connections.

If you terminated one with parallel coil connections it would operate at no performance penalty at logical voltages. This pointless ultra high voltage shenanigans is an artifact of the immaturity of the current state of EV drive systems.

Reading between the lines, I suspect the OP is looking for a "off the shelf" solution.
I don't believe he is up to internal modification of a high output motor .....( and neither would I be !)
I am just trying to outline to him the scale of the task he is planning .
 
liveforphysics said:
Ohbse said:
LFP has a lot of experience with riding fast two wheel vehicles, building electric ones, works in the industry and has come the closest I'm aware of to running in the 10's with something vaguely bicycle shaped with an 11.5. Shaving off that extra .5 of a second is not as easy as you might think.


While I agree with you that generally it's extremely difficult to go from 11.5 to 11.0, in this particular case my next bicycle iteration will be a fairly easy addition of a second sevcon size6, and should result in single digit quarter mile times (or my death).

Of that I have no doubt, looking forward to seeing it. Not your death obviously. Just making the point that chasing ET becomes exponentially harder :)
 
I am looking at a trek 26 inch low profile with a camollie frame. It has a small frame. Low to the ground. Almost looks like a 24 inch if not for the wheels. It is very light and strong. I'm trying next month to get it for a future drag racing bike. Hope to put a 20 or 30 horsepower motor on it. What should I gear it for to start getting used to drag racing with a bike? Say it is capable of 12 or 13 seconds. I would not want to start out with that. 16. or 17 seconds maybe with crash helmet and some body gear. Then change the sprocket a couple of times to get down to 12 or 13 seconds. Liveforphysics. What was your first quarter mile run. Can you describe it. It has to feel a lot different than behind the wheel of a car. Please tell me. Thanks Latecurtis
 
I would not use a stock frame for a drag bike. A couple extra pounds of chromoly tubing, heavy-duty dropouts, and drag-specific geometry would all be good things that Trek doesn't offer.

I'm thinking you need something built like a BMX/freestyle bike frame-- but bigger, longer, and more laid back.

Wereldrecord_fiets.JPG
 
I see. The electric city bike club is where I got the specialized I am currently converting and I only paid $30 for it. They may have something there. I will take pictures also of the trek before we entirely rule it out. The first step is finding the right bike. The motor is step 2. Gearing and battery options are steps 3 and 4. and safety precautions will be the final step before making the first trial run obviously. I will keep looking at bikes and motors for now. This type of build will be awhile in the future for me anyway. I still would like to know why that Motenergy motor fails to produce spectacular results under heavy voltage and current load. Are those motors defective? Could the design be improved or the motor modified to work for e bike drag racing? I don't want to rule it out yet. Please comment or it. L F P or any interested parties.
 
latecurtis said:
I still would like to know why that Motenergy motor fails to produce spectacular results under heavy voltage and current load. Are those motors defective? Could the design be improved or the motor modified to work for e bike drag racing? I don't want to rule it out yet. Please comment or it. L F P or any interested parties.


It's not that it's defective, it just saturates and falls on it's face when you hit it with big current.

For example, there is a hubmotor dyno video I made where at 15kW input a motor makes 10.2hp output. At 40kW input it makes 10.5hp output (for a couple seconds, then becomes plasma). The Motenergy motor reaches a point like this pretty quickly.

The motor on my bicycle is a little different, as even at 1,200A it's still not saturated and continues to increase in torque. I haven't actually found a saturation point yet, it's a test I would like to do to know how much current I should aim to hit it with.
 
I have a suspicion it may be possible to calculate the saturation point for a motor by adapting the technique used for transformers...

Interesting to hear the Yasa motors are series connected. It would be very interesting to know the spec of a parallel connected version. Perhaps an email to their technical department along the lines of "700V? Srsly? Pls reterminate and try again" :D
 
As I write this response I look above to see the subject: "DC Motors over 10 kW" and think wow, talk about off-topic :lol:

But my Evo Electric AFM140-4 motor needs a DC bus of up to 720 V. The eFXC rules state no more than 700 V, so I have a battery with 168 LiPo cells in series - or 620 V nominally. The 40 kg Evo motor puts out >140 kW at the rear wheel.

The motor windings are already terminated in star -
AFM140_4_terminal block.jpg

Yes, the DC bus is lethally high, but so is the wiring in my house and my microwave. All that matters is that it's done safely. Do it well, and a high voltage motor will not disappoint. Nothing on Voltron Evo gets hot, even with the piss-weak 3/8" hose and fittings for the coolant. Only a YASA motor will put out similar power for a ~10 kg weight saving, and given they're 60% more expensive than an Evo, I think I made the right choice.

As for what bike to put it in? Think litre sports bike, or custom frame of equivalent capability and no less.
 
You are enjoying the beauty of having the right size motor my friend. It's not the HV that makes your bike accelerate like a rocket, it's putting that much power into a big motor. It would rocket just as hard of your amp-turns came from other turn/current combinations.
 
In theory that is correct. However Evo had tested a 3-turn motor on the PM150DX inverter and found it was less efficient than a 4 turn motor on a PM150DZ. It still put out the same peak power, but heated up more. The constant power output was a bit lower too. So it's not quite linear with today's technology, however the next iterations of inverters will no doubt be better.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-MOTOR-10-hp-12-24-48-Volt-Etek-Pattern-NOT-RUNNING-Permanent-Magnet/331291481637?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D3fdd115bef044968992869865ebcb076%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D391036096162&rt=nc
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Manta-2-10-hp-DC-motor-12-24-48-Volt-Etek-MT-Pattern-Permanent-Magnet/301491211867?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D12a8686326b544f38f98e2cdac2babd6%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D331291481637&rt=nc
 
Liveforphysics How about these motors. how would you rate them?
 
I just posted a couple of new motors. I want to build a death bike like you some day. I have been busy trying to switch to Lipo on my other post. 4130 heat treated cromolley double butted true temper ox 2 frame. 1999 trek 930 single track. 16.5 inch frame 26 inch wheels. frame 4 pounds stripped. How would this hold up for a future drag racing bike.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRUSHLESS-MID-AXIAL-MOTOR-48V-96V-1000W-6800W-VAE-E-BIKE-QUAD-CAR-e-SCOOTER-/201301830521?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ede862b79
 
http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/100mm/tp100-inrunner-brushless-motor-rc-boat-150kv-23000w/

I am looking to see how this motor compares to the e tech motors LiveforPhysics runs. I am sending him a message and hopefully he will respond.

Thanks LC. out
 
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