Zero Motorcycles delivering 2012 models to customers now!

[dkw12002]

Not on mine.

[Alan B]

Do these bikes actually NOT display their energy consumption rate somehow? Amazing!

[IBScootn]

What type, AH rating are the batteries on the 2012?

[liveforphysics]

What type, AH rating are the batteries on the 2012?

X/MX packs have ~40Ah usable, ZF-6 packs have ~80Ah usable, and ZF-9 packs have ~120Ah usable. Discharge capacity varies slightly depending on temperature of the cells.

The cells are pouch-type NMC. Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide. Super safe, super high cycle life.

[emotofreak]

The Zero S bikes average between 6(hwy)-12(city)miles per kWh. You will find this correlates well with advertised UDDS and Hwy commute ranges.

[dkw12002]

2011 Zero S is 52 V nominal, 14 series cells and the 2012 is 66 V nominal, 18 series cells.

[Alan B]

The Zero S bikes average between 6(hwy)-12(city)miles per kWh. You will find this correlates well with advertised UDDS and Hwy commute ranges.

Great. So 167 watt hours per mile highway, and 83 watt hours per mile city, to state it in terms we often see on ES.

So to compare with a bicycle in the city, the motorcycle is approximately 3 times the energy consumption. Roughly. Interesting, not surprising.

The 66V 120 amp hour pack has about 8 kilowatt hours, so on the highway this would last 48 miles, and 96 miles in the city.

Great to have some data.

[dkw12002]

Commuter speed to me is 74 mph cause that's what most people drive their cars on I-35. Suddenly the claimed 114-mile range is looking elusive. Someone on another forum said manufacturer estimates of range are usually 35% optimistic. That would be consistent with many e-bike claims too. I do plan to ride one soon when my dealer gets the 2012 demos in. Someone also pointed out that while the 2011 is claimed to get 43 miles per charge, the average is more like 27 and if you ride WOT, it is 19, which is what we e-bike riders suspected all along.

[dkw12002]

Here is what one owner of a new 2012 Zero S said about it. I asked what to expect riding it at 74 mph.


Re: Range of 2012 Zero S with ZF9 at 74 mph?

« Reply #1 on: Today at 10:58:09 PM »

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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the ranges are quite exaggerated. I don't want to discourage anyone - the bike is awesome, but the range-claims are not realistic.
I have over 200 miles on my 2012 S FZ9. If you ride at speeds between 70 and 75 MPH the fuel gauge bars disappear at the rate of one bar for every two and a half to three miles. So assuming that one starts with a full battery and rides to empty - there will be around 33 miles on the odometer.

I did get 60 miles on a charge once, but I kept the speed around 50 MPH to achieve that range.

This is still a vast improvement over previous bikes and I'm enjoying the ride. Luckily I can charge at work, so I can ride fast each way (50 miles round trip).

[emotofreak]

Just to reign this in a bit. Zero only advertises 63 miles "HWY commuting range". Which is defined, right there on their site, as follows:

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For 2012, in order to give our customers additional range information, Zero collaborated diligently with the Motorcycle Industry Council on the development of a new "Highway range" test and reporting standard for electric motorcycles. This new standard is meant to provide a range value riders can expect to achieve when using the motorcycle for highway commuting. It is based on an extensive 3rd party research which concluded that, when coupled with the distance traveled on city roads getting to and from the highway, as well as the distance spent in highway congestion, the average "highway commute" is made up of 50% steady-state high speed riding and 50% city-like riding. For Zero's higher top-speed S and DS models, the steady-state high speed used in this test and reporting standard is 70 mph. For Zero's lower top-speed XU, this speed is 55 mph.

The Formula:
S and DS 70 mph Highway Commuting Range = 1 / [0.5/(70 mph steady-state range) + 0.5/(EPA UDDS range)]
XU 55 mph Highway Commuting Range = 1 / [0.5/(55 mph steady-state range) + 0.5/(EPA UDDS range)]
*********************
They never claim that it does 63 miles @ 70mph sustained the whole way... They are just reporting the numbers as per the MIC's range testing procedure.

[rojitor]

Every brand reports ranges in optimistic conditions, in real life the range is half of advertised, nevertheless the range has improved, i thought about buying the zero xu last year but after reading some reports i totally forgot it.

[Spacey]

Most legal ebike sellers in UK lie through their teeth with mileage stats, apparently 40miles on a 26v 10Ah pack is totally possible......hmmmm. I use 43.8v 12Ah and manage between 25 and 32miles of real world riding at 16mph.

Zero seem to be a bit more honest than most it would seem.

[dkw12002]

I was pleased to hear from someone who bought one and has experience as opposed to company info. If the 33-mile range is accurate for going 70-75, (and who wants to run their battery completely out), then the reasonable commuting range by interstate might be only 15 miles one way.

[Alan B]

That would assume a number of things that aren't in general true.

[dkw12002]

Except he's the only person on the Zero forum who has said he actually has the new Zero. I doubt he is misleading. If anything, when you buy a new bike, you tend to over-state it's capabilities. Time will tell. Once we get a few more actual owners, we may find out how much of an interstate commuter the new bike can be. We already know it will do fine around town.

[Alan B]

Not what I meant. The 15 mile assumption requires a 70 mph capable uncrowded roadway all the way to work and no charging available at work. A very special (and worst case for Emoto range) set of circumstances that would rarely exist. There are 7 million people in this area, and very few of them would have this commute requirement. Essentially zero. Traffic and transportation routes aren't like that, and charging a motorcycle at work is much easier than a vehicle.

[dkw12002]

Nothing about the 2012 Zero would preclude me from buying one. What I would do is ride it around town...and ride it hard, just like any self-respecting sport bike rider does. Eco mode? No way. LOL.

[Alan B]

My commute is 13 miles, about half of which is 50 and half of which is twisty 25. Charging at work is not a problem, employer is putting in charging stations for cars and 110 plugs are not hard to find, and is pro electric. Zero would be lots of fun. The wife would prefer I got a Zero to the ebikes. But I would get stuck in traffic where the ebike can use the bike lane alongside the road. And spend a lot more money. Still tempting. A test ride would be very dangerous.

[dkw12002]

It sounds like your situation is ideal for either the e-bike or a Zero. The 2011 Zero with the smaller battery would work for you too if you don't need to go over 57 mph.

We have very few bike lanes. For my purposes, just an e-bike would be fine too. My Amped bike has a rack on the back and a couple of storage bags, so I can do some shopping that I can't do on the Zero. There is no storage on the Zero except for 2 holes in the frame...hollow tube connectors where the frame changes direction.

[dkw12002]

Here is another post from a rider of the 2012 Zero S with the big battery. It is from the Zero forum:

Real World Range 2012 S FZ9

« on: Today at 09:58:14 PM »

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First of all - THERE ARE ELEVEN (11) BARS ON THE FUEL GAUGE - what a strange number.
I thought there were twelve when I first posted. In the owner's manual the diagram shows ten bars. But there are actually eleven. Really.

Real World Riding Range from my experience so far:

70-75 MPH: 34 Miles
At 65 MPH: 39 Miles
At 45 MPH: 55 MPH

I received an email today stating that my windshield has arrived at the dealership - I'm hoping that my range will improve with the increased aerodynamics.

[flathill]

The advertised range is 63 miles at 70mph for the zf9 but the new owner is only getting 34 miles on a full charge??? And it only goes 79mph not the advertised 88!?

[dkw12002]

I am less surprised about range than top speed. I would almost suspect a programming error if the new S model is that far off. So far, that is the only person who has reviewed his own bike, so I am hoping for more reviews soon to see if it is a quirk. A Ninja 250 will go 90+ mph and has a range of forever for a third of the price of a Zero...but then that's apples and oranges.

[rojitor]

There's no chance to charge an electric vehicle in my land, only one place and on top of that has ridiculously high prices, i wouldn't mind low ranges if i could charge for a reasonable price everywhere.

[dkw12002]

Really, unless you can charge at work for free, there will likely be costs attached to charging somewhere else. I mean if a restaurant allows you to charge your Zero, you should include some portion of the $30 you spend for lunch there if otherwise you would have dined at McDonalds for $7. Electric vehicles are much more expensive than a similar performing gas vehicles. A new Zero S costs $14,000 new and has a max. range of 114 miles if you creep along.... 60 mile range or less for the rest of us normal riders. The top speed is about 80 mph. A 2012 Ninja 250 costs $4200, goes about 95 mph and at 50 miles per gallon and $3.50/gal gas, you could ride for 140,000 miles on the Ninja before you caught up with the initial cost of the Zero. While the Zero does not require oil changes and tune ups, it still does use electricity...about .60 per charge, plus there was the $600 or so extra in taxes for the more expensive Zero. Electricity will cost about a penny a mile, so that would be $1400 for 140,000 miles plus the $600 in sales tax for a total additional in hidden costs of $2,000 which easily covers your oil changes and tune-ups for the Ninja. There might be maintenace costs associated with the Zero motor, charger, and controller too that a Ninja does not have. The Zero is much more expensive than a similar-sized gas bike. It appeals to people who want something novel, quiet, and green.

[Alan B]

Many of your statements are incorrect or incomplete. You have ignored tax incentives and actual costs of purchasing, and the increasing cost of gas and societal cost of high pollution, plus the economic costs of dependence on foreign oil. If you don't want one, fine. But if you are going to do an analysis (which is off topic in this particular thread) include reasonable factors and look at the whole picture. Everyone knows electric vehicles are expensive at this time. Everyone has a different use case and some can save money with an electric motorcycle while others can justify it even if it doesn't save them money.