Vintage Cafe/Roadacer- R5e

[teddillard]

I've been lurking for quite some time now, mostly in awe of what you guys are doing here, but finally thought I'd post my new project- a vintage Yamaha R5 roadracer build. I had an RD350 back in the early '80s that I built up, and seeing the Hammarhead Volta really struck a chord with me. This post on my blog started out with the Volta, then moved into the RD/RZ frames as a platform for my next build.
http://evmc2.wordpress.com/2010/08/10/hammarhead-volta-and-bigass-zev-hub-motors/

I moved away from the hub motor idea because of the unsprung weight, and everything was just fine... just another crackpot scheme - until I saw this on CraigsList for $40 - a '71 R5 frame.



Nuthin' but trouble.

This is my basic concept- totally stripped, totally naked, not at all street legal vintage cafe/roadracer:


(tank/seat art from http://www.silencetv.com/.

The first phase is to use the parts I have- a Mars ME0709/AXE 7245 @72V, but I want to design it to be battery and motor - "agnostic"... set up so I can easily bolt in different batteries and motors as I have the chance (another strike against the hub idea).

For now, I'm deep into the chassis reconstruction- collecting parts, sandblasting, cutting and doing all the usual R5/RD frame modifications, but that hasn't stopped me from fantasizing about motors and battery mounts. The motor/battery decisions will be driven by the fundamental nature of the bike... I have a twisted scheme up my sleeve that may fulfill all of that... if I can pull it off it will be everything the R5/RD was back in the day- fast, light and fun!

[grindz145]

The first phase is to use the parts I have- a Mars ME0709/AXE 7245 @72V, but I want to design it to be battery and motor - "agnostic"... set up so I can easily bolt in different batteries and motors as I have the chance (another strike against the hub idea).

It looks like a great project! I find that theres alot of drawbacks to trying to keep the chassis 'agnostic' I recommend doing some research here and designing a setup that fits the chassis perfectly. It's a little bit of a leap of faith but I think you'll be happier in the long run. But who the hell am I anyway:D Awesome project. Look forward to seeing more updates:D

[only1jake]

Ah hah. There you are TED!
Welcome to ES lol You've been stalking us already though, no welcome needed

NICE bike

[teddillard]

Hey there Jake!

Thanks grindz, I hear you... on my first bike I set it up with a basic NEMA-C face mount for the Mars I was running, here's what it looked like in the pre-assembly:


I actually used the mockup I'd made for a larger sepex motor, here:


So, the theory is that if I put it together with enough clearance for a motor like the new Mars, an Etek maybe, the Perm and Agni, then I can pick and chose at my whim and pleasure... and as motors fall into my lap...

I put a post together on the motor mount idea here: http://evmc2.wordpress.com/2010/09/11/the-motor-mount/

Now the batteries are another matter entirely...
My thinkin' on that subject here: http://evmc2.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/m ... batteries/ and no, I don't have any decisions yet... but some of the stuff I've seen here has completely changed my thinking on it!

[teddillard]

Didn't get as much done as I wanted this weekend... frame is sandblasted, primed and painted, the swingarm bushings are pressed in and I've started doing a rough assembly. At least the outdoor work is done, since the temps are dropping into the teens here in New England.

[grindz145]

Gorgeous. I see what you mean about using some standard mounting for the motor to make the design as flexible as possible.

[grindz145]

Gorgeous. I see what you mean about using some standard mounting for the motor to make the design as flexible as possible.

[teddillard]

Thanks again!

Got it all slapped together, and now I can start on the 'lectric bits.



...off to find some eggnog!

[teddillard]

Here's the drawing for the motor mount face plate. It will handle up to a 9" diameter motor. Off to my buddy's shop to have them mill it out.



(btw, just discovered TurboCAD for Mac, and LOVES it...)

[gestalt]

Great to see you over here finally Ted, I've been on the run lately and Elmoto just isn't that phone friendly. That cafe racer is such a classy way to go, IMO there's not enough of em on the streets. I left a 67 Honda cb160 back on the left coast and I wish I hadn't.

Btw, just got the keys last week for the shop space and I've already drug in about twenty carcasses and my welder to begin my crazy schemes with. Stop on by and I gotcha eggnog with plenty of kick. I'll try to get all my 'lectric bits in one place and try to keep the magic smoke at bay.

[teddillard]

mmmm. KEYS! SHOP!

Thanks gestalt! Ima headin' on over...

My buddy at http://www.harvardmachinery.com/ milled the part in a few hours, (!!) and before I knew it, I had it in hand. Even more astounding, it fit like a glove! (...or, as he says, a "honeymoon fit" )

Here it sits...



Now, off to find some Champagne!

[gogo]

Thanks for posting this project. It looks like the motor mount brackets on the RD frame are well placed to make sprocket alignment easy. Did you have any challenges getting the sprocket aligned? Where did you get the sprocket? Thanks again.

[teddillard]

Thanks, yes... They really seem to be well placed. I just cut the spacers for the frame mounts, and as I'd hoped, there's going to be plenty of room for some gussets and braces to give it some strength and resist twisting. I'm so stoked that the motor fits so well it will probably be a while before I take it out to get it welded properly...

The alignment was a piece of cake, really. Once I had the swingarm back on it was just a matter of using the photograph of the frame, and Photoshop to draw the lines from the swingarm for the center to line up on. I then just moved all the dimensions to the CAD program. I'm a lot better at Photoshop than TurboCAD I'm afraid...

The Mars fits beautifully into this frame. Later today I'll post some overall shots showing the profile... but it looks sweet!

[teddillard]

Lots of progress this weekend! The clipons came in last week, so those are all mounted, and I found the stock I knew I had somewhere ( ) for mounting the controller and contactor and all. I'm still working on the rearset brake position, and got tired of hurting my butt sitting on the frame tubes, so I started mocking up the seat pan too. Also did a little non-essential modification of the Alltrax AXE controller.

...couldn't resist pulling out the scooter batteries and doing a quick spinup, too! Not bad, from the salvage pile to the spinup in 7 weeks!

[grindz145]

Very nice! Good to see your progress. Is that a precharge power resistor on the controller?

[teddillard]

Thanks!

Yes it is, it's a 1000 ohm 10W - but I think you meant contactor

Here's the wiring diagram I'm using, minus the 12V side... courtesy of Ed Fargo ("Juiced Racing" http://juiceddragracing.com/ )

[teddillard]

...been working on details lately, no too dramatic. Finally worked out a good rearset brake lever:



...although I DID make a little franken-ride in the shop. Almost crashed into the furnace, but it had to be done!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs7o-B0wKn0

[drewjet]

Great to start to a really nice build. I really am digging the cafe racer look. I think with the discovery channels new show we will be seeing a lot more cafes on the road soon. I am glad at least one of them will be 'lectric.

a few notes: it looks like you made your motor mount from 1/4" alluminum. I did the same on my bike. I have a Mars Brushless, similar size and weight as yours. After about 6500 miles it cracked and fell off while riding. No damage fortunately. When I pulled it appart it was obvious that it was cracked for a while prior to failure. I made the replacement out of 3/8' or 1/2", can't remember and its not where I am at now. Point is you should be fine, but keep an eye on it.
Also, I think your rear sprocket mat be a bit small, it may be something you allready have considered, but I would look into your calcs on speed a bit more.

Great Build, keep up the good work and as always more pictures/video are better!

[teddillard]

Good to know, thanks! I was torn about the material, and went with 1/4" steel, so I think I should be fine... but it's nice to hear some actual experiences.

The sprocket is indeed a little small. Based on my gearing of my first build I think it should be in the ballpark, and I'm shooting for a pretty high top speed, and not so much off-the-line acceleration. But what you can't see is the thing is completely worn- totally hooked teeth, so it's history anyway. I can do some test runs with it, but I wouldn't want to do more than that... I think I'll hit the calculations again, anyway.

[drewjet]

It looked like alluminum in the pic. If it is steel you should be fine. I made up an excell spreadsheet to figure out gearing. Just need front and rear sprocket teeth, KV of the motor, and battery voltage.

[teddillard]

I cheat. I use this AWEsome sprocket calculator: http://www.compgoparts.com/TechnicalRes ... ulator.asp

[scouser-nick:)]

awsome looks like it's gonna be a great build! good luck :3

[teddillard]

Battery decision. Turnigy.

I was snowed in today, so I forced myself to do some math. Here's what I came up with, comparing Headway to Turnigy LiPo:
http://evmc2.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/h ... s-turnigy/

Turnigy-

1 pack – 22V, 5ah (rated 20C)

4 packs – 88V, 5 ah

4 packs x 4- 88V, 20 ah

16 packs @ $60 = $960

28 lbs

16 packs @ 2 x 2 x 6 = 384 cu in



Headway-

1 cell – 3.2V, 10 ah (rated 10C)

28 cells – 89.6V, 10 ah

56 cells – 89.6V 20 ah

56 cells @ $20 = $1120

37.9 lbs

56 cells @ 1.5 x 1.5 x 6 = 756 cu in

I came up with $650 for the 20c 5s 5ah packs- 74V and 20ah at under 200lbs total for the bike. Madness. Madness I say. Granted I'd have limited range, but for this bike and that weight, the performance may be scary. Oh, and I blame ES for this, for the LiPo Noob thread!
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=19956

[johnhead@frontiernet.net]

Great looking build,
Only one suggestion... You may wish to look into a 60ah battery pack. 20ah may be quite limited for your application?

[teddillard]

Very true, I think ultimately I'd go with around 40ah. I don't want to load it up with a lot of weight and batteries, and really don't need the range. The point is more just all-out speed and/or acceleration. We'll see, but certainly I'll be open to adding more, if these batteries are as light and dump as much current as I hear they do.

The other part of that point is the basic LiPo issue, too- you don't want to tax them too much, so definitely 20ah for my purposes is the bare minimum- and the bare minimum with LiPo is not a great place to be.

Part of my whole modular build idea is to make the battery packs, well, more cartridges, so I can add more modules as I want to, and can afford.

Again though, you don't want old packs running with new... so that decision would have to be made early on. But I could go to 40ah for a total of $1300... still within the pain threshold.