ANE (All New Energy) BMS (BMI/LifeBatt/PSI)

hi,

it seems there's no thread to discuss the ANE BMS. a while back I had to talk to the BMS so I sort of documented the serial protocol and made a test program, maybe someone is interested. I also traced parts of the BMS so that I could understand that 10-pin daisy-chaining connector in the "VMS" boards; you can talk to them over this connector. I could dig that up if someone needs it.

cheers!

here's:
a tool that logs cell info
a tool that scans for valid request message types
a description of the protocol

the tools are tcl 8.5 scripts that run on windows and linux.

I don't recall seeing any information on their VMS board before. I don't think I've even seen a picture of one, so any info is welcome.

Please,
explain what is ANE BMS and how it relate to VMS /I understand you are talking about VMS used in BMI/LifeBatt HPS batteries???
I am using 3 VMSs in my 36V pack so I am very interesting in this thread.
MC

o yes,
this must be VMS board used by BMI/LB , I didn't read title of thred carefully.
I have several question, as I understand you have in depth knowledge of VMS.
When LEDs lit up on board, does it means shunt resistors are working?
In other words - do LEDs always lit up when shunt balancing resistors work /are warm/???
MC

> I don't recall seeing any information on their VMS board before. I don't think I've even seen a picture of one, so any info is welcome.

sure you have, this is the common BMS we've seen with the BMI-style cells. here's some info about the VMS boards:

http://www.electric-echo.com/lifepo4/lifepo4_bmi_vms.shtml

> When LEDs lit up on board, does it means shunt resistors are working?

well I don't really know. you see, I don't have physical access to the VMS boards, I just get to access the 10-pin port of one of them. but the previous link has a different interpretation for those leds.

I did have access to a less known companion board: the SWBOT4802. it's a charge and discharge power cutoff board (with a buzzer alarm), but it also has a PL-2303HX usb to serial bridge. if you plug it into a linux or windows box with the right drivers a virtual com port will pop up, in effect giving you access to the serial signals of the 10-pin daisy-chain (much like what you'd get with an RS-232 port hooked directly to the 10-pin port with the appropriate level translators). this is the board I traced to figure out the 10-pin port.

the 10-pin daisy-chain port has over and under voltage signals, buzzer control, bidir serial port, wake up request (to turn on the leds and maybe other parts of the circuit) and +5V power output.

SWBOT4802
Max Continuous Discharging Current: 60A (@ 25C)
Max Peak Discharging Current: 80A (1s)
Max Continuous Charging Current: 25A (@ 25C)
Max Peak Charging Current: 30A (1s)

here are a few pics...

I have a batch of these boards coming from Taiwan for evaluation - I should have them sometime next week. I've talked with the folks at ANE and have the current revision of the documents for the boards. The docs published on the Electric Echo site appear to be current, but a couple are edited and missing information - possibly deemed proprietary by ANE.

These are currently the only boards approved by PSI for their cell warranty. The boards are used by PSI, LiFeBatt, and BMI in their packs. The folks at ANE don't want the boards sold direct to consumers - they want them professionally integrated in packs - so we won't generally see them in on-line stores. Spares are available, however, from folks that carry the packs (LiFeBatt, BMI) and from others (Cyclone in Taiwan, Rechargeable Lithium Power in Texas).

The 'display board' (the small board with the pair of DB9 connectors) has both TTL level signals (for the warning buzzer, over-voltage/over-temp signal, and LVC signal) and bi-directional serial comms. According to the docs I have, the serial comms are 0-5V TTL, not the -12/+12V levels for full RS-232 comms.

I also have the USB board in the mail, but didn't know what it did - thanks Lanchon!

Some images from the docs (Sources: ANE):

View attachment 4S_VMS_MainBoard.jpg
View attachment VMS_Overview.jpg
View attachment ANE_Software.jpg

I look forward to exploring these parts - hopefully we'll have another BMS option to add to the arsenal!

miro13car said:

When LEDs lit up on board, does it means shunt resistors are working?
In other words - do LEDs always lit up when shunt balancing resistors work /are warm/???
MC

Click to expand...

MC - do you mean the four LEDs on the main 4S board? The ones normally seen thru the top of the battery box?

View attachment 4S_block.jpg

If so, these are the 'fuel gauge' LEDs. Four LEDs for >13.2V, three for 12.6V to 13.2, two for 12.0 to 12.6, one for 11.4 to 12.0, and none if pack is under 11.4V.

thanks for all the info, Andy!

> The 'display board' (the small board with the pair of DB9 connectors) has both TTL level signals (for the warning buzzer, over-voltage/over-temp signal, and LVC signal) and bi-directional serial comms.

I don't have and I've never seen this board (let's call it the I/O board), but I've seen pictures of it.

my understanding is this:

-each VMS board handles 4 cells
-the VMS boards can be daisy-chained (they have two fragile 10-pin connectors)
-these connectors are intended to be used inside a battery pack, and not to be exposed to the user
-the I/O board connects to both ends of the daisy chain (the VMS board string) and "outputs" those two ports to the world using two "rugged", user-friendly connectors (DB-9s). (it also has a couple of over/under voltage leds, I believe.)
-the user can continue to daisy-chain battery packs using these two DB-9s.

WARNING: these DB-9s carry the signals of the 10-pin connectors, and are *not* compatible with a DB-9 PC serial port, neither in voltage nor in pinout.

this means that for example:
-a 36V pack can be made with 3 VMS boards and a single I/O board, using 4 10-way flat cables.
-the user can get 72V by chaining two of these packs together with a (custom) DB-9 cable.
-the user can access all 6 VMS boards via one of the remaining DB-9 ports.

> According to the docs I have, the serial comms are 0-5V TTL, not the -12/+12V levels for full RS-232 comms.

I don't know about this. maybe you can PM the docs, but I don't think ANE wants their info docs publicly posted. I would appreciate if you could post high-res images of the I/O (or "display") board, both sides, with enough resolution to trace its circuitry.

> I also have the USB board in the mail, but didn't know what it did

I understand that the cutoff/USB boards replace the I/O boards in the packs that integrate cutoffs. I believe these boards are either 16V- or 48V-only (as ordered from factory) and thus can't be used in user-chaining scenarios; that's why they don't feature DB-9s. (they do allow access to the serial lines via a USB bridge.)

also, there are at least two versions called SWBOT4801 and SWBOT4802. the SWBOT4801 has less current handling:

SWBOT4801
Max Continuous Discharging Current: 30A (@ 25C)
Max Peak Discharging Current: 60A (1s)
Max Continuous Charging Current: 15A (@ 25C)
Max Peak Charging Current: 20A (1s)

they also don't have the copper bus bars as seen on the pics above.

"These are currently the only boards approved by PSI for their cell warranty. The boards are used by PSI, LiFeBatt, and BMI in their packs. The folks at ANE don't want the boards sold direct to consumers - they want them professionally integrated in packs - so we won't generally see them in on-line stores".

.....not true actually! Lifebatt won't sell them (for good reason) but BMI definitely does.
The complete VMS kits (VMS board, wiring looms for connection to the cell junctions, plug in temperature sensor thermistor and output display/PC interface board are available from BMI. Several people have purchased these from me including micro13car on this forum.
I also supplied the VMS info which was first published on the Electric -Echo website almost 12 months ago now.
The info on the VMS kits is here-
http://lithbattoz.com.au/index.php?page=battery-diagnostics

The docs on Electric Echo show LiFeBatt and BMI markings on the boards so both of you used them at one time. Maybe the docs go back to when you were part of LiFeBatt?

Electric Echo VMS4S Doc said:

VMS (Voltage Management System) Instruction Manual
for
LiFeBatt HPS Battery Packs

Click to expand...

Maybe you didn't mean that LiFeBatt doesn't USE the boards, just that they didn't SELL them? In that case, I'll stand by my post - becase LiFeBatt certainly will sell the VMS and display boards - one may just have to buy an HPS pack to get them.

Lanchon - I'll get you the docs from ANE. Much more complete than any of the open internet files - all tech, no fluff. :wink:

Andy

multiple edits...typos do vex me...

View attachment board_portrait.jpg

The miracle of UPS. It's 3x faster to get a shipment from Taiwan than from Ontario. But I'd still like to know why they ship from San Antonio to Vancouver via New Jersey. :?

The same VMS boards are used by both BMI and Lifebatt. This is the same VMS which is used in the HPS battery packs and which is featured on the Electric Echo website..

hi Andy, I think BMI meant that LifeBatt doesn't sell them unassembled, direct to consumer. hey, thank you very much for offering to share the info you have!

hi BMI, and thanks. you said LifeBatt won't sell them "for good reason". I don't think you want us asking why, right?

btw, I'm sure I have the cutoff/USB board schematic somewhere (traced); if anyone wants it I'll go look for it.

cheers!

BMI said:

The same VMS boards are used by both BMI and Lifebatt. This is the same VMS which is used in the HPS battery packs and which is featured on the Electric Echo website..

Click to expand...

Armin, can you say which version of the board LiFeBatt/BMI decided on when they had the cases designed?

It appears that the V9 boards grew 15mm in length when they moved from 8 to 16 shunt resistors. Chances are good that these latest boards will not fit into HPS pack lids.

[edit] We've determined that there are multiple versions of the boards sold with a '4SVMS' part name.

The LiFeBatt/BMI board has their markings, has 100mA shunts, is designed for up to 2P (20Ah) packs, and is shorter than the 'standard' board (presumably to fit into the companies' molded battery packs).

The Standard board is marked with the manufacturer's name, has 200mA shunts, is designed for up to 4P (40Ah) packs, and is 85mm long. [/edit]

AndyH said:

BMI said:

The same VMS boards are used by both BMI and Lifebatt. This is the same VMS which is used in the HPS battery packs and which is featured on the Electric Echo website..

Click to expand...

Armin, can you say which version of the board LiFeBatt/BMI decided on when they had the cases designed?

It appears that the V9 boards grew 15mm in length when they moved from 8 to 16 shunt resistors. Chances are good that these latest boards will not fit into HPS pack lids.

Click to expand...

There has been no change in the pysical dimensions of the VMS boards as far as I am aware and they still measure 70mm x 65mm (as they always have). They still fit the HPS batteries perfectly!
The only difference I have noticed from one batch of boards to the next is the colour of the "QC OK" sticker. All my current boards have a white sticker but (from memory) my last batch had green stickers. My current stock of boards are V9 and the exact writing on the PCB is "ANE-VMS4S1PV092"

The boards I have are 65x85mm and have 8 shunt resistors in a row on both sides of the board. The silk-screened ID is ANE-PAVMS4S000900.

If the pictures and documents are accurate, the folks at Cyclone have the same board. It has 16 shunt resistors and the same board layout, so I expect it will also be 85mm long. Their docs say the 'standard' is designed for up to 2 parallel cells and has 200mA shunts.

[edit]We've found multiple versions of the documentation for these boards. The docs posted by Cyclone appear to have data from both the 2P and the 4P boards. The 4 resistor boards are 100mA 2P boards while the 8 resistor boards are 200mA 4P boards. [/edit]

It looks like there are different boards sold with the same generic ID '4SVMS'. Good to know - Call Armin if you need boards for an HPS pack!

I have never seen a board that measures 80mm long/wide so I can only assume there are two (or more )versions made of the VMS boards. The boards I supply are exactly as pictured here-
http://lithbattoz.com.au/index.php?page=battery-diagnostics
Maybe the smaller boards are made that way so they fit the HPS battery packs. This could be why the VMS boards fitted to the HPS packs have "BMI Lifebatt" marked on them rather than generic ANE number/letter markings?

well i should be able to make some comments in a couple of weeks. i just ordered a set of these boards to make a pair of 24V 10Ah packs.

i just can't wait for tem to arrive.

rick

I've been told of some other VMS commands:

-baud rate selection (600/4.8K/9.6K bps)
-disable/enable cell balance
-force OVP and/or LVP output signals to an active state for testing

these commands appear to be global affecting VMS boards in the chain. they have no board ID and they probably generate no responses (I haven't tested).

Lanchon, very interesting,
also trying to understand how they work
keep info coming!
Miroslaw

miro13car said:

...also trying to understand how they work...

Click to expand...

MC - do you have the documents for your boards?

My new shipment is in - and this time I'm keeping some boards to play with. :wink:

Andy,
I don`t have any documents for VMS other than published on Electric Echo site and Cyclone site
Miroslaw

miro13car said:

Andy,
I don`t have any documents for VMS other than published on Electric Echo site and Cyclone site
Miroslaw

Click to expand...

All righty - you do now.