Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.

Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby liveforphysics » Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:13 am

AussieJester wrote:Seeing i am in the market for Lipos i am wondering if the 5800mah is worth the extra 30 bucks over the 5000mah...~$us560 for
8 packs of 22v 5000mah Turnigy's against ~$us800ish for the 5800mah packs... :?: :?: :?:

KiM


8 of the 5.8Ah packs would give you the ability to do 31Kw continously, and provide 1Kwhr of energy.

OR, for about the same money...

12 of the 5Ah packs would give you the ability to do 27Kw continously, and provide 1350Kwhr of energy.

I started out with the intentions of trying to talk you into the 30C packs, but after working the numbers it seems going with 12 of the 5Ah 20C packs would likely be a better setup for you, since you've got a slick battery box that can hold them all so neatly :)
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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby AussieJester » Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:58 am

Hyena wrote:I wouldn't bother Kim, they're almost double the price of the 15-20C 5000mah packs, and its not like we need the 30C discharge rates for our ebike use.


That was my thinking also Hyena. I haven't ordered as yet, i have set aside funds from this pay and will go for the full eight 5000mah packs in 2 weeks rather than initial 4 packs as first planned...OH...also...what size wire? i was thinking 10awg or will 12 do? I want to use the bullet connectors Gary uses on his u-beaut boards also...

KiM

EDIT: Soz Luke i missed your post there when i replied...Ill eventually get the 12 mate but 8 is going to be it for a month or so, i couldn't of afforded that many straight up if it it wasn't for Gary kindly donating the boards and balancers for the setup...All in good time though Luke, i would LOVE to be able to ride this to the beach in the future, thats a 80km round trip with a hell of a hill to get back up...
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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby GGoodrum » Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:21 pm

Kim, don't ask Luke what size wire, or you'll end up with an extra 20 pounds on that cruiser. :roll: :mrgreen: The Turnigy 6s-5000 packs use 10-gauge wire and 4mm bullet plugs. I'd use 10-gauge from the LVC boards to the controller, etc. which are fairly close in your setup.

Although I have your LVC boards built, and ready-to-go, I'm holding off sending them to you until I get I the HVC and balancing stuff sorted out. Based on some things I did yesterday, I may add the HVC logic to the pack-resident LVC/4p adapter board, and then put the cutoff circuit with the small adapter board that combines the charge leads with the two balance plugs, into the single 18-pin charge/balance connector. I had planned to include this on the balancer board, but this is changing.

Yesterday I received the four 6s Battery Medic balancer units I ordered from HC. These are pretty amazing little units. They are tiny, compared to the small 6s 50W balance chargers (about 1/3rd the size...), but they have much larger displays that also include graphics. They also have double the balance current. I took apart one of the Turnigy 6s 50w balance chargers I received a couple days earlier, to measure the shunt resistance used. It just didn't seem like it was using the 300mA of balancing current they advertise. It turns out each channel has six 120 ohm resistors in parallel, which is about 20 ohms, so the max current is only about 200mA, not 300. I then popped the case off of the new 6s balancers I just received, and it has ten 100 ohm shunt resistors in parallel, so 10 ohms. That means 400mA is the max, which is closer to the listed 450mA max, shown on the web site. Here's what these look like, along with a AA cell for size comparisons:

6s Balancer-05.jpg


One of the big problems I've had with RC-based balancers, and balance chargers, is that they balance to whatever the lowest cell is at, not to a set voltage. What happens is that you end up with the 6s blocks in the pack having different voltages. This balancer, however, also has a balanced discharge mode as well, which lets you balance to a fixed voltage point that is settable from 2.0V to 4.2V in .1V increments. Problem solved. :)

What I'm looking at now is simply doing a 6s shunt "booster" unit for each of these that will boost the shunt/balancing current up well over an amp. That will perfect for even the largest capacity ebike packs. I'll be testing this idea this weekend.

More later...

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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby Hyena » Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:02 pm

Thanks for the inside pics Gary. 400ma from that tiny little unit is quite impressive! Are the shunt resistors on the other side of the board or are they all those surface mount ones shown in the above pic ? Does this unit have a buzzer for HVC/LVC like the BM6s or is it just the visual display ?

Have you seen these wattsup meter clones that also have a 6S balancer in them Gary? They'd be ideal for permamantly mounting as part of a power supply charger. It'd be interesting to see what sort of shunt resistors they're running

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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby GGoodrum » Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:14 pm

Hyena wrote:Thanks for the inside pics Gary. 400ma from that tiny little unit is quite impressive! Are the shunt resistors on the other side of the board or are they all those surface mount ones shown in the above pic ? Does this unit have a buzzer for HVC/LVC like the BM6s or is it just the visual display ?

Have you seen these wattsup meter clones that also have a 6S balancer in them Gary? They'd be ideal for permamantly mounting as part of a power supply charger. It'd be interesting to see what sort of shunt resistors they're running

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... vr_id=&mfe


Yes, these are interesting as well, although it appears that you can't use the WattsUp and balancer modes at the same time, and I doubt it has the balanced discharge mode that lets you balance to a set voltage point.

On the HC 6s balancer, the shunt resistors are the ones you see in the picture.

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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby AussieJester » Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:15 pm

GGoodrum wrote:Kim, don't ask Luke what size wire, or you'll end up with an extra 20 pounds on that cruiser. :roll: :mrgreen: .



HAHA ..yup your probably right there Gary ... 10gauge wire & 4mm bullet connectors it is then ;-) No hurry at all with the boards/balancer mate at your leisure 8) batteries will be 3-4 weeks or so away (if they even have stock :: fingers crossed:: )

Thx mate

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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby liveforphysics » Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:44 pm

AussieJester wrote:
GGoodrum wrote:Kim, don't ask Luke what size wire, or you'll end up with an extra 20 pounds on that cruiser. :roll: :mrgreen: .



HAHA ..yup your probably right there Gary ... 10gauge wire & 4mm bullet connectors it is then ;-) No hurry at all with the boards/balancer mate at your leisure 8) batteries will be 3-4 weeks or so away (if they even have stock :: fingers crossed:: )

Thx mate

KiM



When I worked the wire losess on one of Matt's bikes, it was something like 2% power to be had from using 4awg over 10awg... 2% more power KiM! In the world of sportbikes, we pay $1,500 for a header that gives less than 2% more power. :)
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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby AussieJester » Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:06 pm

HAHA Luke, if you could get away with it you would have wire as thick as your forearm wouldnt you mate wouldnt you, IIIIII KNOOOOOOW you would !!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby johnrobholmes » Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:31 am

On my next build I am using some 4 leg 220v 8awg multistrand cable for welder extension cords. It is nice and flexible and will allow either double 8awg or a set of ground, main voltage, 5v, and 12v rails.
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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby liveforphysics » Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:38 am

johnrobholmes wrote:On my next build I am using some 4 leg 220v 8awg multistrand cable for welder extension cords. It is nice and flexible and will allow either double 8awg or a set of ground, main voltage, 5v, and 12v rails.



I went with silver plated extremely fine stranded copper 4awg leads with silicone jacketing. And I run 2 leads of them for each polarity. :P :) I like wire.

KiM- I've got a ton of very high end wire bro, if you want me to send you a care package of wire for grown-ups, I will gladly do it bro.
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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby methods » Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:02 am

:roll:

If it's not hot - its fine :wink:

My days of spending 80% of my budget for the last 7% of performance are OVER.

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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby liveforphysics » Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:15 am

methods wrote::roll:

If it's not hot - its fine :wink:

-methods



Pshhh... Your ideas towards women don't apply to electronics methods.
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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby Hyena » Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:39 am

haha

I'm sure 10ga will be fine unless you're frequently pulling amps up towards triple figures.

2 lots of 4ga, damn Luke! For the same power to weight ratio (and probably cost!) you could run another 6 pack in series :P
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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby liveforphysics » Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:46 am

Hyena wrote:haha

I'm sure 10ga will be fine unless you're frequently pulling amps up towards triple figures.

2 lots of 4ga, damn Luke! For the same power to weight ratio (and probably cost!) you could run another 6 pack in series :P



I run 8P, so to run another 6s, it would require space for 24more cells, and a controller modded for 150v. Doesn't mean it won't happen sometime though :P

Batteries are not my weak-link right now. Neither are controllers. It's my damn ghetto hall-sensor mounting crap that hasn't been very reliable for me lately. :( I'm going to make a giant coreless pancake motor that can handle 30-50kw, and has proper sensors designed into it, and then maybe I will think about upgrading the batteries. :) :P
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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby AussieJester » Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:58 am

liveforphysics wrote:
methods wrote::roll:

If it's not hot - its fine :wink:

-methods



Pshhh... Your ideas towards women don't apply to electronics methods.


hehehe too funny your so mean to Methods :-P .. Cheers for the offer of wire 'for grown ups' to mate but ill stick with the 10awg buddy, it's what has been used on Mr Goodrum's magical boards of wonderment and i'm more than happy to use the same :-)...i shall grab 3-4meters of the silicone wire with my lipo order Thursday week along with bullet connectors. OH and i must order a 18 pin surface mount connector for the enclosure too, i couldnt find them at JayCar on Thursday when i went there they had alot of other pin counts smaller and larger but no 18 pin WTF :roll:

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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby liveforphysics » Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:12 am

AussieJester wrote:
liveforphysics wrote:
methods wrote::roll:

If it's not hot - its fine :wink:

-methods



Pshhh... Your ideas towards women don't apply to electronics methods.


hehehe too funny your so mean to Methods OH and i must order a 18 pin surface mount connector for the enclosure too, i couldnt find them at JayCar on Thursday when i went there they had alot of other pin counts smaller and larger but no 18 pin WTF :roll:

KiM



I love Methy. I would do anything for Methy. We've just been playing like this for 10 years on various forums now. lol When he was into racing, he had a piglube (honda prelude), so I would always refere to him as "The Cruise Ship Captian", and always put it in italics like that. lol He had a few good names for me too... lol We both had nothing. Those were the good'ol days. :) Methy is a very close friend to me, and always will be. We just have a different way of showing affection. lol
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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby methods » Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:51 am

You know I have been thinking...

Maybe Luke is compensating for something with all that thick cable :shock:

-methods
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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby Hyena » Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:55 am

As much as I dont want to interupt what I think is about to become a string of methods vs liveforphysics posts... :lol:

I thought I'd mention PVC pipe as a good cheap enclosure for these lipo batteries to protect them from puncture or blunt force trauma.
After test fitting a few lipo packs in bunnings today (I must have looked like a terrorist making an IED right there in the isle :lol: ) I found the 100x50mm is exactly the dimensions of a 6S2P pack and the PVC has just enough give in it to squeeze the 10ga wires in there too. Alternatively if you're running banks of 5S there's a few mm to spare around the wiring so you'd want a thin piece of foam in there to stop them rattling around. Pity they don't make end caps for the rectangular stuff like they do the round, but oh well I'll make some out perspex/plexiglass.
Whack on a few coats of gunmetal hammertone and I reckon it'll come up nice.

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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby liveforphysics » Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:30 am

Hyena wrote:As much as I dont want to interupt what I think is about to become a string of methods vs liveforphysics posts... :lol:

I thought I'd mention PVC pipe as a good cheap enclosure for these lipo batteries to protect them from puncture or blunt force trauma.
After test fitting a few lipo packs in bunnings today (I must have looked like a terrorist making an IED right there in the isle :lol: ) I found the 100x50mm is exactly the dimensions of a 6S2P pack and the PVC has just enough give in it to squeeze the 10ga wires in there too. Alternatively if you're running banks of 5S there's a few mm to spare around the wiring so you'd want a thin piece of foam in there to stop them rattling around. Pity they don't make end caps for the rectangular stuff like they do the round, but oh well I'll make some out perspex/plexiglass.
Whack on a few coats of gunmetal hammertone and I reckon it'll come up nice.

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Good find Hyena!
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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby nicobie » Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:40 pm

Thats a nice idea! Next time I think I'll try it.

I have been hot gluing formica then wrapping with strapping tape. Your way would be better.

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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby johnrobholmes » Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:03 pm

Wonder if I could find that nice metric size here. What is it for, downspouts?
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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby Hyena » Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:39 pm

Yep it's rectangular down pipe - like this . They'd probably have something similar up your way, look probably in 2x4" which would actually give a touch more space. They also have 100x65mm which would easily accomodate the 6S packs + wiring but I figured if I can squeeze it all in the smaller tube it cuts down on size.
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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby AussieJester » Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:10 pm

johnrobholmes wrote:Wonder if I could find that nice metric size here. What is it for, downspouts?


If you cant find any over there John ill buy some here and post it over if you like?

KiM

EDIT: i have funny feeliong to Hyena i have seen end caps for rectangular pipe, i just can't remember where...
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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby Hyena » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:44 pm

If you can find any mate that'd be brilliant. Lay off the herbal pain meds for a few days and your memory might come back :lol:
I thought I'd seen them in the past too but after looking high and low I've had no luck. I even rang a few plumbing places and they said they've never seen the rectangular end caps, only the round ones. You can get rectangular to round adaptors and then screw on the end caps but then you've got this huge round end which doesn't look the best. They'd be handy for mounting though, you could fix the end cap to the bike then screw the pack into the end cap.

Postage wise they weigh next to nothing but the length makes them pretty sizable which would make shipping OS more expensive than the pipe is worth. FYI I paid $30 for a 3m length, so $5 worth for a 18S2P or 12S3P pack. You may be able to get smaller lengths elsewhere but I guess it's meant to run from the roof of a house to the ground so the lengths are going to be atleast 2400mm.
Last edited by Hyena on Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

Postby GGoodrum » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:47 pm

Wow, that is a great find. :) I'll have to have a look, and see if anybody sells PVC rain gutter drain pipe over here.

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