A123 from China. C and avoid [SOLVED]

[miro13car]

Please,
come back here and tell us how was it with PayPal.
That is very important to so many people here.
If you get refund it would be the way to go for others.
Of course what a difference single cell charger or lab power supply -will not take charge means exactely that.

[Hillhater]

Please,
come back here and tell us how was it with PayPal.
That is very important to so many people here.
If you get refund it would be the way to go for others. .

Having proven to be a dud, I wouldn't think anyone would want to bother with that supplier !

[miro13car]

"the way to go for others..."
I ment for any supplier, obviously not this cell seller.
Will PayPal deliver on promise on their web site to refund for the goods "not as described"?
Tricky, they need proof that they are "not as described" means cell below 3V??

[Hillhater]

Even if agniusm gets his money back from paypal, i personally would never trust Paypal with any serious amount of my money !
They are about as reliable as a Cockney used car salesman !

[agniusm]

Thanks, well i hope it will all go fine, fingers crossed. The only thing i have stated that they ate copies of originals, internally damaged. On my conversation on paypal with seller he agreed that they are not the ones we where talking about before purchase. Mavizen site is also stating that they are the only authorized supplier of A123 cells which only proves that victpower could not sell a grade authentical A123 cells. I made him to state that on paypal money reques for my security. He must respond till Dec 2nd.
Will let you know how this went

[miro13car]

agniusm,
that's intersting this PayPal dispute what that seller going to say to your claim that Mavizen is only A123 authorized dealer?
You wrote very logically in your PayPal claim, maybe seller will reveal more where they are getting those cells from.
My view is there are cells acuired from recycler or re-directed before reaching recycler but definitely they are damaged A123.
Like Mavizen claims they are leaks at recycles sites. Recycles know value of those cells.

[parabellum]

How do you know the cells are below 1V and dropping? Have you tested them? This really surprised me?

Did you sell those cells to agniusm?

[agniusm]

How do you know the cells are below 1V and dropping? Have you tested them? This really surprised me?

Did you sell those cells to agniusm?

Yea, the guy probably went posting without reading and watching the video. I doubt he sold me those cells as the man who did was very poor in english, possibly google translate

[parabellum]

Yea, the guy probably went posting without reading and watching the video. I doubt he sold me those cells as the man who did was very poor in english, possibly google translate

Have you had a chance to measure internal resistance of died cells? It is interesting how A123 pouch dies.

[SlyCayer]

Will PayPal deliver on promise on their web site to refund for the goods "not as described"?

P.S: PayPal will protect you only against "not received" claims if you do NOT use eBay, PayPal and eBay combination will give you full protection of ANY kind and that I can tell you, I have been scammed before by eBay seller pushing me towards a simple PayPal money request, and then they sent me a defective mother board and boom! I got nothing back! Which is written somewhere in their policy because I remember telling myself, I got screwed, it's my fault.

I am a eBay seller with almost 10k of feedback, and it's ridiculous the amount of power the buyer has over the seller, The buyer can Muppet the seller.

I don't think he can get hes money back for this one, unless they are good peoples like me and no matter what from of payment they used, we live up to what we promise.

[agniusm]

Will PayPal deliver on promise on their web site to refund for the goods "not as described"?

P.S: PayPal will protect you only against "not received" claims if you do NOT use eBay, PayPal and eBay combination will give you full protection of ANY kind and that I can tell you, I have been scammed before by eBay seller pushing me towards a simple PayPal money request, and then they sent me a defective mother board and boom! I got nothing back! Which is written somewhere in their policy because I remember telling myself, I got screwed, it's my fault.

I am a eBay seller with almost 10k of feedback, and it's ridiculous the amount of power the buyer has over the seller, The buyer can Muppet the seller.

I don't think he can get hes money back for this one, unless they are good peoples like me and no matter what from of payment they used, we live up to what we promise.

Hi, there is no point in posting your opinion and experience regarding my business with paypal, it is irrelevant to this thread. I dont know how it will go and just leave it at that.
Here is from paypal:

Protection for your Purchases
We can help protect your purchases anywhere you shop and pay with PayPal. Just in case your item doesn’t arrive or if it’s significantly different from its description, we can help get all your money back.

[SlyCayer]

Protection for your Purchases
We can help protect your purchases anywhere you shop and pay with PayPal. Just in case your item doesn’t arrive or if it’s significantly different from its description, we can help get all your money back.

You might be 100% right, it might of changed in the last 3 years.

Sorry for irritating you, which I think I was only letting you know my experience, in other words, I was suggesting you stay nice to the other Chinese guy at the end to have the best chance at getting this resolved without PayPal deciding in his favor which after that, he will obviously not want to help you.

Ohh, and if you want some Cells, I got about 500 in stock, I give you a good deal, all full charged and Capacity tested just for you before they leave.

They are from the looks of it 100% brand new.

[dnmun]

yep, brand new a123 cells that sat so long they self discharged. this guy thinks you have to jump to his fable, his video proves there is nothing wrong with them since they even discharged into his meter from the almost totally selfdischarged state. notice he never produced a video showing they would not take a charge, just what he wants to believe and he has a lot of camp followers that made him think there is something wrong with them now.

and in case you haven't noticed, there were a number of experienced people that did advise you to just charge them up and use them, but somehow you think you are different and can force the seller to take them back because mavizen told you something else entirely. but logic doesn't mean a thing here. you got what you paid for and you are stuck with them. so whine at me some more.

[parabellum]

and in case you haven't noticed, there were a number of experienced people that did advise you to just charge them up and use them

EDIT: Those are not SlyCayer words.

Keeping them is worst case scenario but possible. If they will charge up again, there probably will be at least difference in IR to charged cells. If the capacity stays same, the C rates for charge and discharge will be affected as well cycle life. They will also try to get out of balance in every cycle, since damage caused by this deep discharge will wary from cell to cell.

[agniusm]

yep, brand new a123 cells that sat so long they self discharged. this guy thinks you have to jump to his fable, his video proves there is nothing wrong with them since they even discharged into his meter from the almost totally selfdischarged state. notice he never produced a video showing they would not take a charge, just what he wants to believe and he has a lot of camp followers that made him think there is something wrong with them now.

and in case you haven't noticed, there were a number of experienced people that did advise you to just charge them up and use them, but somehow you think you are different and can force the seller to take them back because mavizen told you something else entirely. but logic doesn't mean a thing here. you got what you paid for and you are stuck with them. so whine at me some more.

Nobody has to jump to my fable, there is no profit i gain. My video shows the state of cells not proves!!! I have no intention of proving anything. I had no means of testing them my self, but people showed a lot of interest if they will bounce back, so i took them to a firm who produces BMS "emus": http://www.elektromotus.lt and asked to test them. Because of this i can not take out camera and start shooting because of some dum ass, ignorant person. I imagine they should know a thing or two about batteries. Even if they would charge up, as posted later they are damaged because this technology should not be discharged below 2V and i have paid for 100% cells. That is all to it. Your posts are completely irrelevant to this thread and you are wasting everybody's time. If you would like, pay me for a sample + shipping and you can charge them yourself for your peace of mind.

[circuit]

Have you had a chance to measure internal resistance of died cells? It is interesting how A123 pouch dies.

I'm the one "with lab equipment and a bit of knowledge", who tested these cells.
The "USA" cells are good (internal resistance not tested), measures at ~19.9Ah.
The Korean cells are "dead". Will not take any charge, current simply does not go over 0.00 amps. Test done at 3.65V and over. Even reverse connection gives no current. So, there is no way to test a capacity nor internal resistance.
But, for the funny part, these dead cells measures as a bipolar 900nF capacitor All of them, with dissipation factor 0.0004, so internal resistivity is in 10-megaohm range. To explain this, the lithium part of the cell is completely dead and cell performs like a simple film capacitor with value of 900nF.

[agniusm]

Pagaliau, uzkniso kai kurie asilai Dekui

[LiFe]

agniusm, Thank You for taking the time to warn others about this supplier, and the surplussed prismatic A123 HD20 cells. Buying from unknown Chinese vendors can certainly be a dodgy affair at best. It wasn't a waste of your time detailing it for us.
Hopefully you'll be successful in your paypal claim.

There are "members" here who enjoy trolling (myself included), so please ignore these tossers and move on to answer the questions that appear sincere.

[Jason27]

Looks completely counterfeit. Nice to know people on here support ripping off the American company a123. Shame on you. You get what you pay for.

[agniusm]

Looks completely counterfeit. Nice to know people on here support ripping off the American company a123. Shame on you. You get what you pay for.

They ripping of them selves by not setting up proper distribution for the likes of me nor in US nor in Europe! I sure dont support companies like this one, me and others a like here support cleaner transportation maybe cleaner future for our children. You are completely missing the point. Looks like Bush supporter

[bigmoose]

agniusm, first thanks for this thread. The Korean cells are sure an interesting data point. No activation at all and behave as a simple capacitor. Sure would like to cut them open and see if they forgot a layer or two in manufacturing!

Could you do me a favor on the tabs of your cells?

Confirm that they are 4.5cm wide by 2.6cm long?
Can you measure the thickness of each?
Can you tell the material of each tab?

Sincere thanks!

[agniusm]

Will get that checked for you. The tab material i am not sure but it seems they are different, at least looks different. One by the looks is aluminium. Will check the sizes later

The sizes:
45mm width
27mm length

[slawek]

Hi guys,
There is a lot rumor going on about A123, and I just thought this might be useful information where to buy these cells.
I just got my package of 14 pieces A123 for my future project. I purchase form http://www.a123rc.com. All cells I got are made in USA. Voltage is in range 3,25V - 3,33V. I pick them for $39,99 a piece + free shipping. Tabs are 25mm long.
After all I think it was good deal.

*************************************
This is a little out of topic, but if someone is planning build battery pack for RC drive using cells 26650 LiMnNi 4Ah from http://www.batteryspace.com
Just don't waste your time and money. (If you are interested about battery pack i build 7S10P http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=26699 )
After my comments on their web site for some reason my post was deleted, and now I assume the same battery have green thermal shrink (use to be orange)
And constant discharge current is 4A (use to be 10A).

[miro13car]

Slawek,
did you read thread by electricdirtbikerider in this subforum just 5-7 topics down of this thread?
He also bought from A123RC, his cells are not stright, bent but voltage OK.
Plase, tell us about cells appearance -are cells bent?
plastic trays clean? tabs on cells pristine, any dents or scratches on them?

[slawek]

Hi miro13car,
I read that thread by electricdirtbikerider, sounds close to mine experience .
I put ruler on each of them and seems to be slightly bent, maybe a 1mm on their lenght. I think this is do to shipping and a little flexible trays, but i put them on desk and press them with force about 5lb and they got perfectly straight. Tabs except one appear to be in perfect condition.
There is no dents, only really small marks here and there, but I am not concern about that, because after put them in case I will not see them anymore
Plastic trays are a little dusty, probably recycled or were long time in storage.
I will check capacity, and post the results, but this will take a time.