A123 from China. C and avoid [SOLVED]

[slawek]

what equipment? how did you calibrate it?

Just simple Hyperion EOS0720 charger.

why did you only charge to 3.6 and shut off at 2.5 when everyone else uses 3.65V+ down to 2.1V end.

These parameters are suggested by charger, the same like for LiPo 3-4.2V, so I assume hyperion company know what they are doing. And who is everyone else? Maybe just You?
look at the characterystic of A123 system, this is for cylindrical but, I do not think there is much difference for pouch cell except capacity. Do you see how steep is at the end of discharge? How many mAh do you think is possible to get from range 2,5V - 2,1V? 20mAh? 50mAh? I can assure you not to much. Some of my cells are missing more than 0,5Ah and even close 1Ah. What with shortening life when I abuse them? The same story with charging.

what would you contest?

Maybe you did not read my post. But how about missing Ah from what is advertised?

is there something similar to certification that cells have the specific capacity?

Unfortunately no. My assumption are base only on pdf document from a123system.com

is it possible that the capacity will increase when you cycle them several times before you totally discharge them rather than totally discharging them on the very first cycle?

You know, hard to say. I only cycle the weakest 3 times. Capacity results are almost identical.

you should not be on this thread anyway since this guy just started the thread to trash the A123 cells he bot on ebay but he could not test them and made obviously distorted statements that the cells would not charge even though his video proved otherwise.

Sorry but I think this forum is to help each other, not to fight and kicking me off. How about my effort to and work I have done to share with others? Is it worthless for you? I have no intention to hijack his thread. I just think is much easy to find more info about A123 if they are in one thread, not to spread in hundreds. And I had no problems to belief him that these cells would not charge, like others does.
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Considering what these cells are, second hand factory rejects, I would still be happy with those numbers. They are still large prismatic A123s and should have no problems giving you a solid 17Ah run.

Probably you right. Dispute might be on for many weeks and I could not do anything with these battery. At least now anyone who buy from a123rc will know what to expect from them.

[parabellum]

I need guys your advice. Is it worth opening dispute?

Thanks for the info. Opening a dispute will not help and just cost you time, nerves and time again, but torment them a little via mail is recommendable, so at least they know what they are selling and how satisfied customers are.

[agniusm]

Slawek, you are most welcome to post your info here, thanks for that and your time. Dont pay attention to Dnmun. Hes the only one trashing this thread. I would not go Paypal route if i were you and had cells you have. First, they most likely are rejects and you did not paid 95USD a piece? Thats what mavizen charges for genuine a123 cells. So if you have solid 17AH and paid more than twice less it is still a good deal as you get high discharge current.
If you will start with paypal the outcome is unknown and you might loose at the end. For me a bit different story as i have nothing to loose any more, most cells i have received where dead, and it takes 2 moths to go trough paypal claim. I would keep them, in the end you would loose on shipping and possibly will not get something better. As for cycle life, nobody could be 100% sure even with genuine cells.

[agniusm]

Hi, a bit of update on my case. The guy from victpower, Robert contacted me today morning saying he shipped other cells to me. I'll be damned, never expected that to happen. All in all things started moving and looks like i will have some sort of proper cells in the end. At this moment i am thinking on buying a lab PSU to charge test single cells. I dont want to spend fortune on it and perhaps someone with more knowledge can advice if this one will suit me: http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/hy1803d.htm

[Pure]

I'm not sure of your budget, but if you can afford it, go for it. But really all you need is a decent charger, a volt meter, and a way to discharge your cells that can actually draw a good deal of amps. Most common and easy (cheap) way to do this is to wire up some 12 volt halogen car light. First in series to get your desired voltage draw, then in parallel to reach your amp draw.

[parabellum]

Lab PSU is a good thing to have, but I would go for RC charger as well. Charge/Discharge cycling with RC charger is easy, non time consuming and controlled by the charger (you don't have to sit there watching).
Here is 1 good source. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... sortlist=P
The best one (off this list) is Icharger 3010b, but something like Eco Eight will do the job as well.

[agniusm]

Thanks. The price of that icharger is a bit high @176USD + add shipping, TAX and it is 200USD+ charger. Another thing to be able to use it i need 30VDC source, is is not running on mains. I can gen that lab PSU for 56USD with no shipping or TAX. I was just wandering if it is decent enough for the task (charging)

[parabellum]

Thanks. The price of that icharger is a bit high @176USD + add shipping, TAX and it is 200USD+ charger. Another thing to be able to use it i need 30VDC source, is is not running on mains. I can gen that lab PSU for 56USD with no shipping or TAX. I was just wandering if it is decent enough for the task (charging)

They have variable source V. I charger is 4.5V-38V. I normally use PC PSU for 10-20 US, and use 12V line, depending on PSU 20-40amps in this price range.
I have also 2 of this chargers. 36U$ and they work fine to, source V 11-18V. You can use Lab supply to feed them.http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... _acc_.html

[circuit]

Be careful with iCharger 3010B, one almost burned my home. My review is second on hobbyking..

[Ypedal]

I love my 3010B..

[agniusm]

A friend of mine advised me on getting the iCharger 206B. I was wandering if it is possible to get it with declaration for less than full price? Say 25USD including shipping? Perhaps someone has additional charger and could sell it?
Cheers

[parabellum]

A friend of mine advised me on getting the iCharger 206B. I was wandering if it is possible to get it with declaration for less than full price? Say 25USD including shipping? Perhaps someone has additional charger and could sell it?
Cheers

With Hobby King you have the option to declare it as low as 10% of the original cost, you have this option following checkout.

[parabellum]

A friend of mine advised me on getting the iCharger 206B

For 15U$ more you can get iCharger 1010B+ and balance charge 10s VS 6s of 206B.

[agniusm]

Yes, but the thing is i read reviews and couple went on fire. i dont mind spending more time to check the cells, thats the only thing i will be using it. Were to find that declaration option to change? Here is what i get:

[parabellum]

Hm...Is it your firs purchase? Maybe country specific?

[agniusm]

Hi, thanx. You have to be gold member to be able to use this function, so they said not too good. Perhaps someone with gold membership can help me out?

EDIT:
Got it my self, HK gave a discount

[agniusm]

Today i have received replacement cells from victpower. Surprised they send replacement without me sending dodgy cells back to them. This time all the cells where marked as made in USA. All cell came up at 3.3V without exception. I was sure glad to see that.
I was going through cells and noticed different marking on them. Most cells have a qr code in the middle which reads the number, same as on the bar code and between positive and negative tabs, i guess cell ID numbed. Beside that qr code there is lettering: A0, A1, A2, B and no lettering. Also at the top of the cell near positive tab There is another lettering: P1, P2 or none. Could that mean a, b grade cells and the ones that did not pass inspection, just a blind guess. Here are the photos showing different cells:

[miro13car]

agniusm,
thank you for this thread, very informative lot's of info for those who wants to buy A123.
I never saw A123 pouch with codes and letters in THE MIDDLE OF cell.
You are very observant person.
Keep us informed.
I am happy for you that it all turned out for you good,
do you think PayPal complaining propeled seller to action?
And you keep all those first shipment cells?
Power of PayPal complain?

[agniusm]

Thanx mate. Well i bet that paypal done its part. They lock your account and reserve money in your bank account. If i would of send those cells back i would get full refund. I just thought that this way will be better as i wont loose money. 6 cells from the first shipment were ok so i ended up having 30 good cells but paying double tax. So that sort of equals out all things. No i am having some issues with hobbyking. I have ordered icharger 206B and they charged my account but not dispatching the charger, but asking me to send different confirmations because my account name on their site is different from my credit card. So i sent them photograph as they asked, now they asking for a bank statement. I guess it would be easier to smuggle some drugs in to a white house that buy a f...ing charger from hobby king
Well, hope all will turn out ok and i will cycle the cells few times, test the capacity and report back.

Here is a picture of all the cells, the good ones (big stack) and the bad ones:

[parabellum]

Congratulations. Good to read it worked out for you. A lot of sellers are suspicious if your goods receptor name is different from card holder name, they are just scared to send something out and then bank stopping transaction for fraud. There is a lot of credit card hacking going on.

[agniusm]

Hi. Have a few questions off topic, dont want to start a new thread. So i got these batteries i would like to start making them in to the pack. 24s setup. What kind of BMS you would suggest using. I read a lot and it looks that most stuff does not balance cells well. When you spend so much money and time on the batteries you want a reliable BMS to take care of your cells. Is there a reliable programmable BMS so i could set top and bottom voltages to my requirements? What rating BMS i would need to look for current wise? I will be using clyte hs3450 72V on cargo bike, so will be pulling some weight. As i understand connection of BMS to the cells are same on different units except markings of terminals, is there a sort of wiki to familiarize myself with connecting all together?
This is my first build and i need reliable info on this, find it hard to find.
thanx

[jonescg]

My advice on a BMS for LiFePO4 is an EV-Power system. It trims down high cells from >3.65 V to about 3.6 fairly quickly. If all of your cells are well balanced this doesn't take long at all. The master control unit allows either an alarm to sound for LVC, and activates a relay to do whatever you want. HVC cuts power to the charger if any cell exceeds 4.1 V. Simplest system I know, and very effective.

[agniusm]

Thanks. Were you referring to this company: www.ev-power.com.au ? I looked through their website but they are aimed to large lipo applications the cell size starting 40AH. Also cell modules would be hard to mount.

[jonescg]

Yeah, he developed them with LiFePO4 TS cells in mind, but I use them on my A123 pouches and they work just fine.
http://www.ev-power.com.au/-Thundersky- ... stem-.html
He has smaller versions, and the CM100 version can come in a board format. I soldered all the wires onto them and use 6 pin plugs to wire up each pack:

[ohzee]

Congrats Agniusm I am glad it worked out for you.

I also like the woodworking in your house especially the floor looks nice do it yourself ?