Instant Start 18 fet Infineon Boards are here...

[Lyen]

Ok, I sent the software off to 2 different translators.
One is a friend of mine and the other is a paid professional translator.
For starters I sent a screen shot and the instruction manual.

I dug through the software folder and found the upload files!
Unfortunately they only have examples for 6, 9, 12 fet but I bet there will still be a setting for 18 fet.

Good news > ?? There are way more settings!

NEW SOFTWARE CHOICES
3:EB212
70
28.0
41.5
1.0
60
1:Ñ­»·ÃŠ½ÃˆÃ½Ã‹Ã™¶Ãˆ
100
80
60
1.0
6.0
1:ֻÓл¬ÃÃÃÃ”ʾ£¨¼Ã™µÃ„£©
1:¹²Ã’õ
0:ÆÕͨ
40
60
1:¸ÃŸµÃ§Ã†½
0:ÎÞ
0:¼Ã™µÃ„
0:Ѳº½Ã–¸ÃŠ¾
2:¼Ã¦ÃˆÃ



OLD SOFTWARE CHOICES
1:EB806
70
7
32.5
1
50
0:Switch Mode
100
100
100
1
15
1:Only fake Indicate
1:Comm GND
2
35

SWEET!!!


I will have a translated screenshot up ASAP.

-methods

PM me if you guys ever need to translate anything from Chinese to English since I am a Chinese American who also has visited Keywin in person.

Could you translate the 3 post at the top of this page by methods showing the screen shoots of the software? Would be much appreciated

-steveo

The characters post above are corrupted codes and not the actual Chinese characters. Therefore, I will have to install the software and let you guys know.

[Lyen]

PM me a link to download the software in Chinese version. I can translate that for you since I am a Chinese American.

Anything you can teach us about this would be wonderful
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=22963

Most importantly we just need to know what the field titles are on the software screen shot.

Thanks,
-methods

There are only two installable programs in the zipped file. However, both programs prompted to insert a disk (I assumed a floppy disk) with a Chinese file. So currently it is not installable without the needed files. I appreciate if you can provide the whole set of program(s). I meant a completed program(s). It would also be best to rip the disk image as .IMG or .ISO Thanks!

[methods]

The software was downloaded from this location:

http://66.196.80.202/babelfish/translat ... 310362.rar

The main website is here:
http://www.xie-chang.cn/cn/product_read_kzq.asp?id=117

You can navigate to the software under one of tabs at the top of the main page.

I wish I could help more.....

Doc found the website and talks about it in thisthread. He calls out the correct chip.

When I tried to install the software is twas looking for a .cab The file was there but the problem was that the Chinese characters created an invalid path for the English computer.

btw: I have been informed that I can use NJ Star to run the Chinese program on my English PC and come out with the correct Chinese characters.

Thanks for your help!
-methods

[Lyen]

Here you go guys. It took me several hours to understand exactly what the software does. It is actually a program to adjust parameters of a super duper controller that act like a car computer. Methods, since we live in the Bay Area perhaps we can make friends and meet together with other members in the San Francisco Bay Area and show off our ebike stuff in person one day.

Below are the marked items with explanation. The item box between item 2 & 3 is the hide button to show/hide the options on the right side from item 8 to 31. Anyway, let me know if you guys have any questions.

1. Open document/file
2. Save document/file
3. Open path
4. Save path
5. Port select (1-5)
6. Start transfer
7. Transfer status
8. Chipset/Board type selection (1. EB206, 2. EB209, 3. EB212, 4. EB218)
9. Current, voltage settings
10. Phase Current (amp): (from 30 to 135)
11. Rated/Average current (amp): (from 7.0 to 57.0)
12. Low voltage limit: (from 21.1 to 53.0)
13. Voltage tolerance: (0.1 to 4.0)
14. Voltage limit for regenerative braking: (55,60,75)
15. Speed ratio settings
16. Limit speed ratio %: (30% to 99%)
17. 3 Speed mode: (0: On/Off type 3 speed, 1: Circulate type 3 speed)
18. Speed ratio 1%: (30-120)
19. Speed ratio 2%: (30-120)
20. Speed ratio 3%: (30-120)
21. Speed point/prompt mode: (0: Brand A, 1: Brand B, 2: Tainjin 164-P1-DAT P2-CLK)
22. Inverse speed %: (30,40,50)
23. Time & Other settings
24. Block time in second: (1.0 to 10.0)
25. Automatic Cruise time in second: (1.0 to 15.0)
26. Slip regenerative recharge mode: (0: at 15 and up (real), 1: only smooth run display (fake)
27. Electronic brake strength level: (0: normal, 1: strong, 2: very strong)
28. Security power level: (0: low, 1: high)
29. In motion speed: (0: none, 1: include)
30. 1+1 Assist power choice: (0: fake, 1: real)
31. P3 usage: (0: Cruise instruction, 1: voice/language)

[liveforphysics]

You are awesome Mr. Lyen! Thank you so much!!!

[Doctorbass]

Great Job Lyen! Thanks!

I almost finished my controller assemble yesterday. i'll test it today or tomorrow with basic features .. then i'll use the programmer.

-I added two more shunt (from the old soft start controller ( it now have 6)
-Installed heavy car audio gauge 8 wire for power in
-finally succeded to find enough room for 5 160V 1000uF caps inside with heavy cooper link ro the PCB
-I beefed the phase trace and main positive and negative traces using thick cooper plate ( should be just fine for 150A!)
-Installed 3x 1.8K resistor
- the 5302 also have double 12 gauge teflon wire on the motor... No wire heat problem!!

since i still never used one of these infineon controller i hope it work fine!
I still have in backup the crystalyte 18 fets controller.. ( i also used it to find the solder location of all signal wires, throttle, hall, cycle analyst etc..)

I hope it will work like i wich to!!

Doc

[SAM-Pilot]

Thanks Lyen
Very good work! Just some slight changes from my side:
12. Low voltage limit:
14. Voltage limit for regenerativ braking:

[methods]

Methods, since we live in the Bay Area perhaps we can make friends and meet together with other members in the San Francisco Bay Area and show off our ebike stuff in person one day.

Dude - You just did in a few hours what I have been trying to do for days!
You have just been promoted to Superbadass in my book. Thank you very much for helping. This puts us one step closer.

Sure we can meet up. Anyone else reading this can meet up with us to.

Lyen - If you would like to continue to help with this project - translating from time to time on ebike related topics - your help would be amazingly valuable. We are crippled by a language barrier and it impedes us every step of the way.

So... Did you get that software to install on an English Windows computer?
Did you use one of these special programs like NJ Star?
I am releasing the kits today and if I could at least install the program and prove that it will actually flash a chip then I would feel a lot better. My worst nightmare would be shipping out 30 "programmable" controllers only to find out they cant be programmed.

So, when you have time, could you give us a few tips on how you got the program to install?

Everyone - lets thank Lyen!

-methods

[methods]

Thanks Lyen
Very good work! Just some slight changes from my side:
12. Low voltage limit:
14. Voltage limit for regenerativ braking:

WHoa! Hey, that's a really nice catch!
Knuckles - how do you like that? Adjustable max regen voltage!
Nice nice nice!

This is why it is so important for all of us to work together on these things - we all bring a different skill set and background. No way would one of the translators off the street be able to interpret what the functions were supposed to be. Thanks a lot for the help guys.

I am going to try to get this software fired up on my computer... Just have to figure out how to get it to run

-methods

[methods]

[quote="SAM-Pilot"][/quote]

One of our big end goals is to have a controller that will work over a wide range of voltage without swapping resistors.

SAM-Pilot has been working behind the scenes on understanding the 12V regulator circuit.
He took a really nice crack at calculating the range of voltages we could use with a given set of resistors by back calculating all the currents.
He did these calculations using nothing but screen shots of the PCB that he collected from different threads, which makes his analysis that much more impressive and work intensive. I need to send him a controller so he can actually get some part numbers and do some measurements.

I am trying to convince him to share with us the hard work he has done so far.

-methods

[methods]

Here is a messy overlay
I am sure one of you artists can put me to shame

xiechangtranslationJPG.jpg

(93.85 KiB) Downloaded 696 times

This is awesome...

So I dont see any control for multiple current limiting.
This leads me to believe that there are simply jumpers on the board that work something like this
Jumper A
Jumper B

A to ground means low current
B to ground means Medium current
A + B not grounded = maximum current

If you look at Kenny's picture this makes sense too - his rocker switch has full power in the middle.
Now all we have to do is figure out which pins!
Doc - you have one - Wont take but a second to trace the pigtail in and check which pads it goes to.

Once Doc finishes up with his drag bike we will need to pump him for info!
Doc is the only one who has both the Crystalyte version and the Infineon version.
We must pour over these boards to detect every little difference.
With these differences we will learn more than we have ever known about the Infineon boards.

With translators at our side we can now unlock the secrets hiding on the website too

-methods

[Lyen]

Good catch on my mistakes SAM-Pilot!

Methods & SAM-Pilot & Doctorbass, thanks for your compliment. As for the program installation issue, I simply installed the software on a Chinese OS. However, according to the included documentation in the PDF file, there is a special instruction stating that you need to copy from an X folder to a Y location and such. Lastly, there is another instruction telling you what you hook this up first, second, and so forth. Let me know if you guys need more detail information on program installation & computer to controller hardware setup/interfacing + operation procedures.

BTW, Doctorbass I just want to let you know you are my admirer in electronics and batteries hacking. I have read nearly every single threads you have post. You have indirectly helped me built my ebikes and scooters and also helped me spent my fortune on it. Good job buddy!

I primary support American products first, others second.

[Doctorbass]

Thanks lyen for your appreciations.. your help is also appreciated as well!

[Doctorbass]

Here is a messy overlay
I am sure one of you artists can put me to shame

xiechangtranslationJPG.jpg

This is awesome...

So I dont see any control for multiple current limiting.
This leads me to believe that there are simply jumpers on the board that work something like this
Jumper A
Jumper B

A to ground means low current
B to ground means Medium current
A + B not grounded = maximum current

If you look at Kenny's picture this makes sense too - his rocker switch has full power in the middle.
Now all we have to do is figure out which pins!
Doc - you have one - Wont take but a second to trace the pigtail in and check which pads it goes to.

Once Doc finishes up with his drag bike we will need to pump him for info!
Doc is the only one who has both the Crystalyte version and the Infineon version.
We must pour over these boards to detect every little difference.
With these differences we will learn more than we have ever known about the Infineon boards.

With translators at our side we can now unlock the secrets hiding on the website too

-methods

Can we just get back to the HARDWARE a bit

I just finished to assemble my infineon 18 fets controller.... AND IT WORK !! lol

not very complicated but with all these NEW board and the update i did on it, that add a bit of risk..

I observed one imnportant thing that may fail on the board. The 3 smt 1Kohm resistor in serie near the 3 big resistor of the regulator become VERY hot at 100V.. I mean.. very very hot!.. I thing that they may unsolder if that is not corrected... is it normal?... cause smt component can not take so much heat!!.. I guess not.. Methods, did you noticed that? ( just to let you know i used the 3 parallels 1.8K you sent me for 100V.)

I also added two more shunt in parallel to the existing 4 shunt.. now total of 6 shunt parallel.
I used my precise 250W DALE 0.1ohm resistor as reference to calculate the real current.. and than the resistance of the shunt on the controller.

That give me 0.793mohm

Method.. I remember you said that when you have set the shunt to 250mohm, the limit of the current was the too small wires of the motor?.. can you confirm ?.. I want to set it to 100A first.... then i'll see how well it work before to increase current. ( I have acces to mant thermal IR camera at work.. I may examine that controlerl with thermal imaging to locate potential over heat problem... like mosfet not correctly thightened that overheat.. etc


Pics or video of the working controlelr SOON

Doc

[Doctorbass]

Also.. I guess that modifying the shunt will just lie the current value that the uC read and that we may need to calculate a multiplyer factor when setting the current limit o the software since we mod the shunt...

I wonder if it already have storred seting like the oem measured shunt value to calibrate the data that the programing software read?.. and where may be these data.. string.. etc

Doc

[methods]

I observed one imnportant thing that may fail on the board. The 3 smt 1Kohm resistor in serie near the 3 big resistor of the regulator become VERY hot at 100V.. I mean.. very very hot!.. I thing that they may unsolder if that is not corrected... is it normal?... cause smt component can not take so much heat!!.. I guess not.. Methods, did you noticed that? ( just to let you know i used the 3 parallels 1.8K you sent me for 100V.)

This concerns me. Please measure the temperature though before getting too worried... The three 1.8K resistors are the correct resistors and they should be good to 107V. My guess is that you will find that the surface mount trio are getting very hot - but not so hot as to de-solder. We can look up the max rated temperature. Worst case we can replace that trio with a single power resistor.

Method.. I remember you said that when you have set the shunt to 250mohm, the limit of the current was the too small wires of the motor?.. can you confirm ?.. I want to set it to 100A first.... then i'll see how well it work before to increase current. ( I have acces to mant thermal IR camera at work.. I may examine that controlerl with thermal imaging to locate potential over heat problem... like mosfet not correctly thightened that overheat.. etc

Yes, my 100A current limit was certainly governed (to some degree) by the 16AWG wires. Please test at your current shunt resistance and do not proceed directly to 0.250m. Gary has a controller with 0.250mOhms. Maybe he will test this weekend and give us an idea of how much current this will allow.

Anyhow, thanks for the feedback on the 12V regulator circuit. This is party why I have been delaying on releasing kits to the general public. I want experienced guys like you and Gary to gracefully run into any possible bumps in the road that may appear.

Keep us updated.

-methods

[Doctorbass]

I observed one imnportant thing that may fail on the board. The 3 smt 1Kohm resistor in serie near the 3 big resistor of the regulator become VERY hot at 100V.. I mean.. very very hot!.. I thing that they may unsolder if that is not corrected... is it normal?... cause smt component can not take so much heat!!.. I guess not.. Methods, did you noticed that? ( just to let you know i used the 3 parallels 1.8K you sent me for 100V.)

This concerns me. Please measure the temperature though before getting too worried... The three 1.8K resistors are the correct resistors and they should be good to 107V. My guess is that you will find that the surface mount trio are getting very hot - but not so hot as to de-solder. We can look up the max rated temperature. Worst case we can replace that trio with a single power resistor.

Method.. I remember you said that when you have set the shunt to 250mohm, the limit of the current was the too small wires of the motor?.. can you confirm ?.. I want to set it to 100A first.... then i'll see how well it work before to increase current. ( I have acces to mant thermal IR camera at work.. I may examine that controlerl with thermal imaging to locate potential over heat problem... like mosfet not correctly thightened that overheat.. etc

Yes, my 100A current limit was certainly governed (to some degree) by the 16AWG wires. Please test at your current shunt resistance and do not proceed directly to 0.250m. Gary has a controller with 0.250mOhms. Maybe he will test this weekend and give us an idea of how much current this will allow.

Anyhow, thanks for the feedback on the 12V regulator circuit. This is party why I have been delaying on releasing kits to the general public. I want experienced guys like you and Gary to gracefully run into any possible bumps in the road that may appear.

Keep us updated.

-methods

OK... So I tested the voltage on the trio resistor with 75V input on the controller

I got 60V on the 3 serie resistor wich give 3kohm and 20mA cuurrent.. that's 1.2W dissipation on 3 smt resistor at just 75V input!

I have in the package you sent me, a pair of 1.5K resistor... guess what .. i'll put them in serie and will replace the 3 smt with this set.. it should be fine!

this is very impressive how i installed these 5x 160V low ESR 1000uF caps on that board !!.. that will certainly help!!

I also have 8 gauge power input.. the max size foldable between the free area of on the board.. !!

As usuall.. "few" pics for you guys

Doc

[SAM-Pilot]

I am reading here since months and I love this forum. Now I decided to be an active part of endless-sphere and write some posts.

Doctorbass wrote:
I got 60V on the 3 serie resistor wich give 3kohm and 20mA cuurrent.. that's 1.2W dissipation on 3 smt resistor at just 75V input!

The 3 SMD 1Kohm resistors are not dimensioned for 100V. If you have 100V on the input heat dissipation is
(100V-12V)^2/3000Ohm=2,6Watt which means 0,9Watt each. This size of SMD resistors can handle only 0,5Watt.
So these SMD 1Kohm resistors will work till 75V battery voltage. May be this is why the max regen voltage is also limited to 75V.
But we will have a solution, soon...

[dnmun]

you will need more than the 600R for the input power resistor if you are up at 107V. you should have 3 2k4R resistors in parallel to get the input to the voltage regulator down close to 52V to keep it in spec. assuming 65mA then 107-(800x.065)= 57V.

if you start at 3.2V for 32S lifepo4, and use 3 2k2R, 102.4-(734x.065)=54.7V input to the regulator.

same voltage as which it did when i used the 540R input resistance for the 72V 9FET infineon upgrade. i actually pulled the 12V rail up to 19V when running at 86V then. 5V rail was 6V too. but it ran ok.

[Jeremy Harris]

Just a thought on the power/heat dissipation problem when running at ~100V or so. Has anyone looked at just stripping the board out of a small plug-in switched mode appliance power supply/charger and using that as a low voltage regulator?

I did this for a power supply for another project a while ago and was surprised at how compact the little switched mode supply board inside the plug-in case was. I reckon it would probably fit where the power resistors are.

The advantage would be much less heat, as these switched mode supplies are very efficient. Most will run from about 60-80V minimum, up to around 250V maximum. Might get around a lot of the heat problems if you can find one that is readily available with the right sort of output voltage.

Jeremy

[liveforphysics]

I agree. This resistor nonsense seems like the way to come up with control power voltage without spending more than $0.02.

My brain won't let me believe that there is not an elegant simple single IC bucking regulator that could take ~40-150vdc in, and output a steady 12v or whatever the circuit needs to see. It's not like we are looking for a lot of current on the control power.

[julesa]

Yeah philf designed one about the size of a quarter here:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8457&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=46

[dnmun]

methods can measure the rails when he puts it together, i suspect it will run up there, and the other side is that the 800 ohms eats up 52V under high load so you would have the LVC up at 66V and could not run a 24S lifepo4 to the end of capacity.

so to get the LVC down to 52V he has to use 600R.

the shenzen had a third step down regulator on top of the 12V regulator.but this board doesn't have holes for another one like the shenzen pcb.

[Doctorbass]

I agree for the switching.. but generally they are more fragile than linear circuit..

For my concern, loosing 10W in heat for a drag race is not so important from now .. i'll see if i need to save few 1/100sec in the 1/4 mile !

But that work well now since i replaced the little 3 serie smt rsistor for big 3W flameproof resistors.

[Doctorbass]

About the current limit, I think there is another way than soldering the shunt to modify the current limit..

The Isense circuit is simple and interact with the Uc. The circuit have few resistor that can be modified to re-adjust the amplification factor from the Isense..... just like we did 2 years ago with fechter on the old V1 crystalyte controller...

Here is some schematic i did to help to understand it...

Fechter, Camlight, liveforphysic Gary ?.. any opinion?

Doc