Amberwolf's DayGlo Avenger, MkII

[texaspyro]

Are you sure that's from a dryer? It looks like it has a standard wall plug on it, not a 220V dryer connection. Not sure how much power it can take...

Hmmm, how about using a hair dryer? Small, compact, already packaged, sucks a lotta watts. Point the nozzle forward for more braking action. Or a popcorn popper? You'll have a tasty snack when you get to where you are going. George Forman grill? Hot dog cooker? Peltier cooler/six pack. Wow! the possibilities are endless. Regen... it's not just for braking anymore!

[amberwolf]

Haha.

It is definitely from a dryer; a friend replaced this heater element in his clothes dryer, and thought I might be able to use the remains of it. He also replaced the thermal cutoff switch at the same time, so I have that, too, but I rpobably wouldnt' use that on the bike. Anything getting hot enough for that to work would have already become garbage by the time it did.

[amberwolf]

Well, it looks like the Fusin problem is likely easy to fix, and probably caused by Stupid Installer Syndrome.

I didn't see any problems with it at first, physically, and figured the easiest way to test if it was motor or controller would be to flip DGA on it's back next to CrazyBike2, and test the Fusin on one of the two controllers already on CB2 that have the same connectors (none of the rest of mine do yet, as I don't have any more 5 or 6 pin JST's).

As soon as I flipped it over, what had somehow gotten past me completely became painfully obvious:

DSC03950.JPG (51.39 KiB) Viewed 825 times

The motor spun out in the dropouts, which I guess means that the 36V motor on 48V has way more torque than I'd given it credit for, and trying to pull me, the bike, the trailer, and Hachi was more than the torque-arm-less dropouts could take, so they spread just a bit and the motor spun a little.

Copy of DSC03950.JPG (65.24 KiB) Viewed 821 times

Enough to rip thru the very thin hall wires, and damage the insulation on (at least) one of the phases, but apparently not short anything out.

DSC03954.JPG (53.7 KiB) Viewed 825 times

It's hard to see even in the sunlight I took the pic in, but you can see two red wires in the pic, and the leftmost one is the motor end of what's left of the hall power line. The black (ground) is also ripped apart, as are at least the blue and green (can't see the yellow one). Gotta open it up and check the halls and whatnot, but suspect they're fine.


I haven't verified the controller operation with CB2's motor yet, but I suspect it is fine. I will first try to fix the wires on the Fusin (actually I'll transplant some from one of the other two, probably, since these are already too short anyway), then retest it with the Lyen 6FET. If it doesn't work then I'll retest with CB2's motor and controller.


The SIS is because when I went to undo the nuts to take the wheel off (first turning the axle back the right way with a 10mm wrench), they were barely finger-tight. I guess I must've gotten distracted at the end of the installation, and never actually wrenched the nuts down. I feel really dumb.

Anyway, now the torque washer is rounded inside, so I'll need to drill and file out some actual torque arms for it, before I try this again. I guess I needed to make them anyway, so now is my chance to start learning.

[amberwolf]

Felt moderately well enough today to fix the Fusin above, and give it a quick test ride around the neighborhood (after being VERY VERY sure I tightened the axle nuts this time ).

Upon opening the side cover, I found only the red hall wire (V+) actually broken, though several had twisted so far that insulation was stretched past the breaking point, and possibly had broken conductors inside.

DSC03970.JPG (63.37 KiB) Viewed 798 times

I cut them all inside the hub and pulled it out of the axle, then peeled away the obviously twisted outer cover (which doesnt' show in any pics, so not shown here), revealing how badly twisted the whole mess was:

DSC03971.JPG (68.44 KiB) Viewed 798 times

I cut away back to the point the red wire was broken (formerly the axle exit point), re-fed it thru the axle, and resoldered them all. Note how cold-solder the original phase connections appear.

DSC03973.JPG (52.31 KiB) Viewed 798 times

The only thing I didn't put back exactly as it had been was the string tie-down; I retied it but one full loop left out due to insufficient length of string, and being unable to find my roll of the stuff I have around here for tying harnesses down.

Now that the already-too-short harness is about 4" shorter, I had to put the controller down on the fork leg for now. I don't have enough Andersons or another JST-XH contact set to replace the cable on either one, so at some point I will just extend the cables on the controller itself, desoldering at the PCB and then interwoven-lap-soldering the new wires between the PCB and the old wires for phases and halls. For now, it functions ok.

DSC03974.JPG (62.54 KiB) Viewed 798 times

As I haven't made a torque arm or washers yet, I just used my 10mm wrench and a couple hose clamps, on the non-wire side:

DSC03975.JPG (109.43 KiB) Viewed 802 times

This should at least insure normal usage doesn't rip the wires apart again.

I test rode for 1.607mi, riding time of 7m 2s. Max speed was 21.9MPH, but it takes forever to get there (15-20 seconds; I lost count each time due to watching out for kids playing all over the place, as they tend to just run out in the road with no warning). Average speed was only 13.574MPH.

I basically held full throttle all the time except when slowing or stopping. Didn't pedal except a couple times to try to get started faster when trying to see what max speed could be, after riding the first mile or so.

The test used the Vpower pack that's been sitting with teh BMS connected but nothing else, since the ride that broke the Fusin, just three days shy of a month ago.

54.2Vstart
53.01Vrest
48.57Vmin

965.1Wp
19.39Ap
1.448Ah
72.3Wh

Battery Current is still limited by the Lyen 6FET's programming, which I had set to 16A, IIRC, to protect the NiMH packs I was using then. I could reset it to 36A to test the Vpower pack at 2C, but I don't know what that would do to the Fusin, or the torque arm wrench.

My only problem with using this wrench as a torque arm is that apparently I don't have any other 10mm wrenches. I thought I did, but nope. Plus this one is actually a teeny bit loose on the axle, probably because it is a cheap Chinese toolkit wrench (from a HF kit, IIRC, given to me for a birthday some years back). So I hope I don't break it, as I kinda need it for fixing things. Lotsa stuff on bikes needs a 10mm.

[John in CR]

Such fond memories of the days before I used 1/2" or thicker steel for my dropouts...not. I'm sorry you had to learn the hard way too.

I'm going to try my other Fusin finally (the one that slipped the clutch on it's first ride over 2 yrs ago), but as a mid drive and scrap the housing.. I'm rigging the gear reduction I picked up to use several different motors, and I've been wanting to try that raw motor at high voltage with fat phase wires and about a 6:1 overall reduction as a simple RC-like but hall sensored drive system.

Once I graduated from using a 3/8" open end wrench and grinding it out to fit the axle flats perfectly, and then bending the wrench to perfectly fit the frame, the next stage was my one and only torque arm that is on my other Fusin motor. All others have been fabricated into the dropouts.

This is 1/4" plate cut to fit the dropout area of the AL bike. Then I added a smaller 1/4" piece before cutting a slot with the angle grinder to fit the axle flats perfectly. Last I welded the arm across the slot to fit the frame for a perfect fit hole type torque arm make of 1/2" of steel held on and in place by the axle nut. I had plenty of axle on that side and added a 2nd nut for security. The flats had some ridges at the threads, so I actually had to smooth it down with a file to get the torque arm on. Sorry about the rust. I never got around to prettying it up after making sure it worked, so it's been on the bike since. I'll trim a lot of unnecessary steel off that inner plate too when I take it off for painting.

Fusin steel torque arm.JPG

(27.25 KiB) Downloaded 51 times

[amberwolf]

Such fond memories of the days before I used 1/2" or thicker steel for my dropouts...not. I'm sorry you had to learn the hard way too.

Yeah, well, I *knew* better already but I didn't double-check my nuts.

I have meant to make torque arms for all the motors for a while, but since nothing ever broke I naturally put it off until too late.

I'm going to try my other Fusin finally (the one that slipped the clutch on it's first ride over 2 yrs ago), but as a mid drive and scrap the housing.. I'm rigging the gear reduction I picked up to use several different motors, and I've been wanting to try that raw motor at high voltage with fat phase wires and about a 6:1 overall reduction as a simple RC-like but hall sensored drive system.

That will be interesting to see, and may be useful to borrow ideas from for my own hub middrive plans.

BTW, if you end up not needing the Fusin housing, I'd be interested in it as spare parts for mine, if you dont' keep it for your own. Especially if it's a rear, as the threaded side cover would be helpful for the middrive stuff I currently have planned.

Once I graduated from using a 3/8" open end wrench and grinding it out to fit the axle flats perfectly, and then bending the wrench to perfectly fit the frame,

Hmm...I'll have to see if I have any extra 3/8" wrenches; I forgot that's the size just under 10mm. Unfortunately I don't think I do, so I'll end up just making the arms correctly (or as pinch dropouts), most likely.

Although I haven't seen any failures of wrenches used this way, so far, I'm sure there are some I've just missed.

This is 1/4" plate cut to fit the dropout area of the AL bike. Then I added a smaller 1/4" piece before cutting a slot with the angle grinder to fit the axle flats perfectly. Last I welded the arm across the slot to fit the frame for a perfect fit hole type torque arm make of 1/2" of steel held on and in place by the axle nut.

I have plans on making pinch-dropouts based on yours for all the bikes eventually, once I have time. Time, the eternal shortage of which I constantly experience.

I'd probably use a torque arm just about exactly like the one in your pic if I had a rear Fusin, but mine are front motors, with too little threading left on the freewheel side nub of the cover to support the pedal freewheel cluster properly. I have ideas on fixing that, too, using the freewheel thread section off a regular rear bike hub bolted to a left side cover used on the right side, but it's another thing I have to get around to. Plus the axle isn't long enough, AFAICR.

[John in CR]

That housing has a giant bearing in one cover, and a number of big rectangular holes between the spoke flanges on the central part. That was the one I was going to try ventilating a geared hub and never got around to. I can't recall what I did to the clutch, but it stopped the freewheeling too, so not really any parts there. I'd want to hang on to the planetary gear set as a spare for the other motor.

[amberwolf]

So after having a sudden problem with CrazyBike2
viewtopic.php?p=374541#p374541
and needing DGA to go to work this morning, I rode with almost no issues there and back today.

The Vpower/CammyCC pack hasn't been recharged since the last post about it above, jsut about exactly a month ago. I have no power readings from the trip itself, or starting voltages, etc, as I did not have time to undo a wattmeter off the chargers for CB2 and hook it up on DGA before leaving, as I barely had time to air up the flat rear tire on DGA and get to work. Oh, and move the turn signal flasher over from CB2 as I still don't have a second one for DGA. (can't find the one I had planned to fix and use, haven't had time to build another one).

Resting voltage when I got home was 53.2V. After it finishes charging (monitored by the LS-CA on CB2 and the WU1), I'll post that data, which will give some idea of power usage today.

I did have the VeloAce PDA on there, so I do have trip info:
19m 1s trip time
21.9mph max speed
14.833mph avg speed
4.729miles trip distance

The one serious problem I had is that near the end of the homeward-bound leg of the trip, I could feel some wierdness while starting up from a stop, worsening each time, so I did my best to help out by pedalling, but my sprained ankle and bad knees didn't allow much. It turned out when I got home that the 10mm wrench being used as a torque arm isnt' hard enough, and it is spreading open, and the axle rotating within it.

DSC03999.JPG (88.18 KiB) Viewed 736 times

You can even see notches in the open end's jaws from the axle working against it, I think. Not sure.

The other side (wire end of axle), with no torque arm:

DSC04000.JPG (56.99 KiB) Viewed 736 times

It hasnt' actually spun in the dropouts yet, but it's only a (very short) matter of time before it does. Definitely have to make a real torque arm for it before I ride it again. I didn't really have time for this, especially since I also have to figure out what's wrong with CB2 and fix THAT, too.

But it's either that or end up ripping the wires apart in the axle AGAIN, possibly destroying teh controller in the process too, this time (got lucky last time).



So I guess I know what I will be doing tomorrow (friday). Probably also Saturday, instead of going to either the FreakBike Nation ride in the St. Patrick's day parade or the CAZbike swap meet. (had hoped to make it to both, if I could get up early enough)

[amberwolf]

Charge data from LSCA:
4.23Ah (At charge finish, green light first on)
4.826Ah (After a few hours of balancing)
273.36Wh
52.9Vstart
59.6Vfinish
4.09Ap

Charge data from WU1:
As expected, the WU1 was reset probably by the high charging voltage *or* by the BMS cutting off battery power from it after charge finished, I still don't know which for sure. So all readings are presumed to start after balancing begins and charge ends.
0.450Ah
59.41Vstart
59.56Vfinish
19.6Wp
0.33Ap

There are some anomalous CA readings, too. The CA is still mounted on CB2, and it is not moving, since it's sitting right next to DGA against the walll charging. Yet it registered some distance, speed, etc. readings. I verified it was cleared before beginning.

At a guess, since the SA version's shunt wires and speed sensor wires are intertwined, perhaps if the sensor is open (with the magnet not near it) it is sensitive to strong electrical noise, like fast switching RF noise in a PSU output. If this is the case, then it's possible that when the BMS on the Vpower pack cuts out at end of charge (HVC) then the Vpower charger is left floating on it's output. THis would mean that if the Vpower charger doesnt' really have enough capacitance to flat-DC-filter it's own output (as it probably expects the battery to do this, it would make sense), it could have significant tiny spikes in it, perhaps sufficient to induce noise into the speed sensor line.

Anyhow, the readings are:
643MPH max
252MPH avg
0.630miles
00m 09s total trip time

If i did the math right, that means that something like 30,000 pulses came in on the speedo sensor within that 9s, probably in bursts given the low average. Noise from the charger is the only thing I can imagine causing it, since this has never happened in any other situation so far.


I have however read recently of someone else that had an insane max speed show up, but I cannot find the thread right now. I've linked this post to the CA version 2 thread
viewtopic.php?p=374815#p374815
and my LS-CA review thread,
viewtopic.php?p=374813#p374813
in case anyone sees those and knows what thread it is to link to that, too.

[amberwolf]

After sitting a while with the WU1 attached but nothing else (except the BMS) it's down to 58.9Vrest.

Half-seriously considered welding the wrench to the axle end of the Fusin, but I can't really undo that later, so....

Looked thru my stuff and found a piece of 1/4" steel plate from the back of an office chair that I think I once intended for a seat mount or something, but I'm very likely to take a chunk of it for a torque arm, starting with the existing small bolt hole in it and filing that out to fit the axle as perfectly as possible. If there's enough of it, I'll make two, one for each side, just in case.

[amberwolf]

Today I cannot find the piece of chair I had yesterday; I have a feeling that my crazy sister may have taken it or moved it (since it was in the living room on the floor by the front wall, rather than with anything specific of mine).

So a little more digging and I found a bracket for an alternator, with what appears to be a 10mm hole for it's pivot that should work as the start of an axle hole, if I am careful in filing it out flat without expanding it. If I screw up filing I can always weld on one edge and then refile that.

DSC04010.JPG (48.12 KiB) Viewed 674 times

As you can see, I also found some dropouts I'd cut off a couple of BMX frames, originally to put onto CrazyBike2 or some other project for a middrive usng a hubmotor. They're not as thick as I'd like, at only about 3mm, but they are quite long/deep and can have a bolt and support welded on each side of the dropout, and a nut used to tighten that as a clamping dropout.

DSC04009.JPG (68.45 KiB) Viewed 674 times

I have three to choose from, so could put one on each end of the axle, maximizing the clamping force.


I remembered also that I have similar but much thicker, maybe 5mm, BMX dropouts welded to the legs of CrazyBIke2's original fork, which itself came from the ReCycle 'bent project I never finished.

They were put there originally so I could use a 20" wheel in the 24" fork, without changing it's length/etc. So if it comes down to it, I can always cut those off that fork and use them. Rather not, but can.

[amberwolf]

Post above was actually typed up a few hours ago, but I got pulled away for lunch with a friend before I could submit...since then, I have now tried the above idea with the clamping dropout,

DSC04015.JPG (60.91 KiB) Viewed 671 times

DSC04016.JPG (60.31 KiB) Viewed 672 times

and it doesnt' work any better than the 10mm wrench, maybe even less so, as it began to fail after a few hundred feet, and maybe three stops/starts:

DSC04012.JPG (82.96 KiB) Viewed 668 times

Also, my bolt isn't evenly applying leverage across the dropout, causing it to deform sideways as well, probably contributing to the issue.

DSC04014.JPG (85.79 KiB) Viewed 668 times

Maybe fixing the last problem would also fix the first. If so, I'd basically have to cut the tips off the dropout, and weld the bolt and loose-nut across the end of it, instead of the side. Then when threading the fixing nut on the bolt, it'll put tension evenly across the plane of the dropouts.


However, I think I will first just try filing out the other thick steel bar's 10mm hole, and then if that doesn't work, I'll make a clamping dropout out of THAT.

[amberwolf]

Tomorrow I may be riding DGA to a friends out in Mesa, but I have to make the torque arm(s) first. I'd rather ride CB2 but the way things are likely to work out, I'll be so tired by the end of that day I'll need his help to get back safely. That means riding a bike I can put on his car's rear rack, and CB2 ain't that. DGA is pushing it, even with the battery out of it. At least it will be a nice long test of DGA.

[karma]

i think its a good idea. i rather have the hubmotor spin in the forks than have it spin and fall out

[AussieJester]

Tomorrow I may be riding DGA to a friends out in Mesa, but I have to make the torque arm(s) first. I'd rather ride CB2 but the way things are likely to work out, I'll be so tired by the end of that day I'll need his help to get back safely. That means riding a bike I can put on his car's rear rack, and CB2 ain't that. DGA is pushing it, even with the battery out of it. At least it will be a nice long test of DGA.

AW, which bike will you be taking to the Death Race this year CB2 again ? And do
you plan on participating in the race this year or just going for the practice and socializing?
You should be able to show a few of those gassers the way!

All the best anywayz mate...

KiM

[amberwolf]

CB2 will almost certainly go again, and I will try to ride in the race. I was afraid last time that the wheel was going to come out of the dropouts, every time I hit the throttle, because torque arm didn't keep it from that (almost came out several times on the ride there, and nearly did once again on the way home IIRC, even with me being really careful about it). There just wasnt' enough dropout there to hold it, on that non-suspension fork off the Sierra.

Now it's on a suspension fork, at least, that has meaty enough dropouts to at least provide gripping surfaces for the washers/nuts, so they stay tight. It's a crappy fork but it will keep the wheel on.

If I am lucky enough to finish the next generation of CB2 (probably not) I will take that, either instead of or in addition to CB2. If there is room in whoever's truck/etc that I can get a ride from, I will bring DayGlo Avenger, too, but it isn't a racer, and can barely get 20-ish MPH out of the Fusin even at 48V, and it takes quite a while to even to get that speed.

i think its a good idea. i rather have the hubmotor spin in the forks than have it spin and fall out

No kidding. Part of why I want to try making the pinching dropouts kind of thing.


I became totally awake for a little bit, and decided I would try (again) to fix the first Cycle Analyst (from Dogman), but I lost my concentration and didn't get it working:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 14#p377314

[amberwolf]

Auraslip sent me his kickstand-nemesis, and today I tried it on DGA:

DSC04061.JPG (48.53 KiB) Viewed 1181 times

Unfortunately as predicted, due to the single-side cargo pod, the bike doesnt' stand well on it. If I let the front fork settle so it's all the way right (with headlight pointing backwards), it'll stay as long as it isn't touched.

DSC04062.JPG (34.07 KiB) Viewed 1169 times

The front wheel is actually off the ground, but it's hard to see, because the kickstand sinks into the carpet a bit, and the tire looks like it's touching the carpet but it's not, really. When the fork is actually pointing forward, the tire clears by maybe an inch, well off the ground even on carpet. I guess that's good in that it means I can test front wheels off ground just by using the kickstand, but bad in that my parking brake is on the front.




I am still working on a permanent solution to the dropout/torque-arm problem, but I really wanted to take advantage of the nice weather today and take Hachi out for a trip with the trailer. So for now, I took a 5lb sledgehammer and squished my dropouts back together a bit, and then did the same to the end of the 10mm wrench.

Then I used a block of wood and tapped the axle into the dropouts, and then secured the nuts *really* tight, using a hammer and a wood-padded wrench. Then I tapped on the 10mm wrench on the wire-exit side (left), secured it to the fork with hose clamp, and then fit and tightened the clamp-on ex-dropout assembly previously pictured here, on the right side.

Then I rode it as hard as I could around the block, starting from complete stops with the rear brake engaged to make a little more force against it, enough to break the front wheel traction and spin the tire sometimes, with peaks of 1200W in the tests. There was no sign of axle movement, so I continued with the tests and added the trailer, which worked ok, and then Hachi, and it was still ok.

All the way to work and back I didn't have any problems, except once the trailer somehow came unhitched, and I almost lost Hachi in it but the car behind me stopped to help. That was awfully scary.

I cant' figure out how, but the whole stem bolt and wedge nut was gone out of the headset/steerer I use as a horizontal hitch pivot. I didnt' see it anywhere in the road, and I never heard it hit the ground anywhere. As I didn't have a spare, I used a couple of hose clamps run down thru the steerer tube aroudn the whole hitch to guarantee it wouldn't pop off, and ran the bike lock cable thru the fork I use as the bike attachment for the hitch, and thru the kennel's vent holes on the trailer, to guarantee that even if the hitch came apart anyway, the trailer would still be attached to the bike. I'm a moron for not having done that always before.

I didn't think to take a picture of it before I undid it to get the whole thing inside the house, though; I was still pretty stressed out about the event. It's been a couple hours now and I feel better, but Hachi sure is worn out; she's sleeping and snoring next to me right now.


Also, just after I started the tests, the speedo stopped working, and I found that the reed I'd used for it somehow has broken glass. I must've damaged it when fixing the dropouts or the torque arms. I have at least two other old speedo sensors besides what's on CB2 (which I didn't want to take off to move to DGA), but I can't remember where they are right now, and I didn't want to waste the day looking for them isntead of riding, so I just went without speedo/odo this time.


So all I have for data is from WU1, monitoring battery current:
(*Estimated)
~40m 0s trip time*
~5miles*
~15mph max*
~10mph avg*

~46Wh/mile*
4.429Ah
229.6Wh
23.14Amax
1199.8Wp

56Vstart (down to 54.1V after just one startup, stable from there)
52.72Vrest
50.38Vmin


All in all it was an "interesting" trip in ways I'd rather avoid. But it was fun at the destination, with Hachi seeing new things and meeting new people.

The one really bad thing is that now Hachi whimper-barks constantly whenever I am in motion. Never did anything like that before, so it was probably the separation that caused it. Probably pretty scary to have happen (it was bad enough for me!). But now she's so loud that it's piercing to me, and I can hear the echoes off stuff quite a ways away from us. She stops as soon as I stop the bike, usually, so I am not sure how to retrain her on this issue.



Regarding the dropout solution, I think I'm going to see about making some EMT tubing bits that will be wide enough to slip over the existing fork legs, and add new dropouts to the tubing that will be made from those thick BMX plates I showed previously, with a bolt across teh end of them to clamp down. Since they're not really as thick as I'd like, I'll probably either put two of them side by side on each leg, or find that stupid 1/4" plate chair piece I was going to use in the first place, and make the dropouts from that.

[auraslip]

This drop out problem is killing me!
I managed to deform the axle where the wires enter by holding it with a wrench while screwing a nut on to the other end.
god damn it!

[amberwolf]

That sucks. When I saw the wrench failed, I was REALLY tempted to just WELD the wrench to the axle end.

I almost did it; the only thing that stopped me was that by the time I got the welder, helmet, gloves, etc., out, reason and sanity had overcome frustration.

If I had done it, I would not have bothered with the clamping experiment. Now that I have tried that, and see how simple it would be to do that right, then I will end up making clamping dropouts for the fork itself, and probalby for the CB2 fork, and others.

[auraslip]

I almost did it; the only thing that stopped me was that by the time I got the welder, helmet, gloves, etc., out, reason and sanity had overcome frustration.

This is why the require waiting periods for guns

Btw we are making a torque arm here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26445

[amberwolf]

Ah, yeah, that too. Heck, when I first had the problem I was tempted for about 30 seconds to just weld the axle to the FORK, and not even try a torque arm!


I've been looking thru your torque arm thread, and I'll reply there if I think of anything useful.

[amberwolf]

In response to these posts in another thread:
viewtopic.php?p=396349#p396349
viewtopic.php?p=396354#p396354

I've just seen a pic in the post
by amberwolf » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:39 am
- it looks like a very large pannier holding the battery (with very little lean left for corners!). I've got a 36V 20Ah lump mounted above the rear wheel but it feels a bit top-heavy at times. Is the large pannier on one side a practical solution? Doesn't it unbalance the bike? Surely it must affect the handling and stability in turns?

Yes, it does affect the handling, but since I don't ride very fast on it (usually 15-18MPH) I don't have to lean too far in a turn. Righthand turns are much more common for me to make, especially at any speed, so there's no real issue with it on the left side. Almost all left turns are very wide anyway, across an intersection, for instance, so it doesnt' tend to get in the way much.

The pannier itself is actually for cargo; it just happens to now hold a battery, too, until I can put that in the triangle (it's too big right now; used to use 3 SLA in, above, and below the triangle).

The side pannier is FAR better than anything on the rack, for handling. I haul some hefty cargo (big bags of dogfood, etc.) not infrequently, and putting it in the side is always easier to handle than on the rear, even if all that weight is only on one side. It's easy and quick to learn (without even really trying) to compensate for the side-weight, but there are things the top-heaviness causes that I don't seem able to compensate for.

[alsmith]

Many thanks for the info.

Sorry about posting in an inappropriate thread- it's the first time I've seen a pannier capable of carrying so much weight on one side and got curious. It is something I'd dismissed quite quickly thinking it would be unstable. Splitting my 20Ah LiFePO4 into 2 parts looks a bit messy so I was thinking that I'd have to wait until the next battery purchase and maybe getting 2 flatter shaped 10Ah batteries to fit into panniers- one each side. Or possibly LiPo's.

Thanks
Alan

[amberwolf]

I've carried qutie a lot with these panniers; used to carry Hachi around in DGA's until she got to big to fit, around maybe 50lbs or something like that (can't remember for sure). I've had a lot more than that in and on the pannier and rack with dogfood bags and stuff. But it does get harder to deal with, the more weight that I put in and on there.

Before I moved the Vpower to CB2, it was in DGA's left pod.

Even on CrazyBike2, I tend to only run with the left cargo pod, because right turns are so much easier without the one there (unless I'm doing a grocery or cargo run that I need that one on).

At the moment, I'm running the rightside pod only on CB2, because I still have my Vpower 48V 20Ah (really ~11Ah now) pack on the left side, which is definitely noticeable in balance when sitting on the bike, but not really when riding it. Even in the DeathRace a couple weeks ago, without the rightsiide pod but with the Vpower pack on the left, there wasnt' really much of a noticeable difference vs having everything centered, since the box it is in sits a lot higher than the bottom of the pod would.

It'd probably be better to center it all, and that's the plan on the new bike, but there isnt' room in teh frame on DGA or CB2 for it as it is.

If I wasnt' keeping the NiMH on CB2 as well, for a backup battery during testing of the Vpower, I'd put the halves of the Vpower where the halves of the NiMH are, after enclosing the Vpower halves in solid protective boxes.

[amberwolf]

Regarding unbalanced loads and riding, see this post
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12500&p=399418#p399418
about CB2.