39mph w/Ebay motor and Lyen sensorless controller

[Tommy L]

I got me a Magic Pie recently. Motor wires are 14 awg and I soldered up 4mm bullet connectors. There other motors available on the market, but I like how thin this motor is compared to the others. There is also too many variations with the newer Crystalite motors and difficult to make sense out of what is good. The MP motor makes for easy installations on many bikes. The wheel is nicely trued and balanced. Acceleration is a lot greater then the previous Yescomusa motor. I added a heat sinks on the controller. Now it doesn't shut off anymore in the crazy Texas heat.









And with the gas money I saved so far, I bought me a new bike for the weekends to run at Memorial park and Cypresswood trails.

Good day Snellemin! (I'm new here to the forum)

Nice build! I see that you are starting out with approx 84volts with your Magic Pie. What controller are you using?
The internal? or the Lyen?

I built this last summer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1qTc4sjORY

I just got a Catrike 700 with a Bionx system already on the trike. First time on a Bionx and for regular riding and working out, its very intuitive. But I raced dirty bikes years back and I have a Honda VT1100. I like torque! My wife likes the Bionx, so I thought of moving mine over to her catrike and pimping mine out. I've been looking at the Magic Pie, Ebike Kit, BMC, Crystal, Falcon for over a year now and can't decide. I've read so many threads and my head is spinning. I've been above 50kph (30mph) but a burst to 60kph/40mph would be nice. I'm thinking that Higher voltage means Less Heat. But if you are pulling 40amp at 36volts (1400 watts) or 40amps at 72 volts (2800 watts) its more heat! What about 20amps at 72volts(1400 watts)? Higher voltage/less Amps equal cooler system? But is 1400 watts.....1400 watts no matter how you get it? are you liking the Pie?
Thank you! Again, nice build!
Tommy L sends...

[snellemin]

I'm liking the Magic Pie alot. The torque is what I really wanted and I got it with this motor. My topspeed is the same, which is 39-40mph. Motor temps are cooler too at that power. I used 2900mah avgeraging 39mph with a strong headwind in 5.5miles. More efficient that my older motor.
I too was overwhelmed with the choices of motors. But I figured the Magic Pie has been out for a while and saw pics of the internals and liked what I saw.

I recommend this motor if you really want torque. The controller is the non advertised 12fet sensorless controller from Lyen.

I'm diggin your push trailer.

[Tommy L]

I'm diggin your push trailer.

lol...... Yep oh she's a lite trailer! But even at 150lbs, (the whole trailer that is) AC inverter duty 3 phase motor has amazing torque!

Thank you for diggin it! lmao!

I've been checking all the motors from China, US, RC style, Cyclone Bionx etc.. Hub or outboard. Closed/Open. It's not easy to pick. Nice to hear
that you are enjoying your Pie. I have heard (read) from the bashers. I've had a Magic Pie in the shopping basket a few times, then got cold feet on the purchase.

I now own the Bionx PL350 and not sure where to go from here. I'm liking the sound of your Pie system. It's the batteries the bug me the most.
Although you can see from my project, that I could make the battery pack..... I'd just like to get a battery pack, controller and a charger and be done with it!

I can get another Bionx system PL500 for my wife and put that on her catrike.........or..... put my PL350 on her trike and beef up (I mean PIE!) lol my catrike with a high voltage system. Decisions decisions. But I guess it really doesn't matter because.... guys like us will always be looking for the next best thing! The need for speed and torque!

Tommy L sends...

[Tommy L]

Learning how to embed youtube vids! I new to forums. lol How does one add their signature block? The line with all of their projects/ebikes?

Thank you!

[snellemin]

The 107F Houston heat got me worried about running lipo's in my bike, so I opted back to running A123's. 28S2P this time around, which is 85.1V underload and 99V off the charger.

[Pure]

The 107F Houston heat got me worried about running lipo's in my bike, so I opted back to running A123's. 28S2P this time around, which is 85.1V underload and 99V off the charger.

So are you saying that you are seeing voltage sag of almost 5 volts? If so, don't you think that's a bit much? What's the Ah rating on this pack? My 20 Ah 2c ping only sees about 3 volts of sag at the most.

[snellemin]

Nominal voltage under load for A123's is around 3V per cell and 3.3V at rest. Those ping things hold their voltage higher, but can't come even close to the discharge rate of an A123.

[Pure]

I think we are getting our wires crossed. Voltage Sag, from what I understand refers to how much the voltage on a pack drops wile under load. My resting nominal voltage is 66 volts, but when put under load it sags down to 63 volts. It returns back up to 66V as soon as I let off of the throttle. I think you are actually talking about the packs nominal voltage.

but can't come even close to the discharge rate of an A123.

That's why I was left scratching my head. Your A123s should not show "voltage sag" as bad as my 2C pings. That is unless you are only running a 5 Ah pack, and if you are seeing that kind of performance from your A123s you are working them too hard.

[snellemin]

You are correct that I'm only using a 2p pack. The batteries are not even breaking a sweat at the little load that I'm giving them. Currently I have no need for a greater capacity pack as I can charge both at work and home. To me, working an A123 cell, is draining a 1p pack in 1 minute.

[Tommy L]

The 107F Houston heat got me worried about running lipo's in my bike, so I opted back to running A123's. 28S2P this time around, which is 85.1V underload and 99V off the charger.

Is that Pie really running at 99v? How many amps have you pulled? I think you had said 2900 watts, so around 30-40amps with the voltage sag.
...... I didn't know that the Pie could handle that kind of wattage.

[snellemin]

No, the Pie is running at 85V continuous. I eeked out 44mph on my commute back home today, with the help of some slight tail wind. As you can see in one of the pics, that I peaked @ 74A at one point, which makes it a bit more than 6000W peak. Not bad for a Pie.

[Tommy L]

No, the Pie is running at 85V continuous. I eeked out 44mph on my commute back home today, with the help of some slight tail wind. As you can see in one of the pics, that I peaked @ 74A at one point, which makes it a bit more than 6000W peak. Not bad for a Pie.

Wow! That is awesome! My Catrike 700 with Bionx PL350 hit about 42.5 KPH (25mph) today on an 18Km (11 mile) route. My trailer goes faster! lolu
I'm thinking of getting a Pie or two for my sons bike or one of those 9 C's. I hear that the 9c's can be pushed too, but your's is very impressive!

[adobian]

How much do you guys pay for the Magic Pie kit these days?
Is this a good price for it?
http://www.sdelectricbike.com/G_M_KITS.html

I need a kit that could mount disc brake in the rear, and should be 28 inch because this is a 29er bike.

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi adobian,

You should create your own thread and ask all the questions you want there

You should take a look at cell-mans kits,

The Pie is a good motor but it's heavy and is a bitch to pedal, but if you don't mind that, then the pie can take a lot of power as you can see from this thread!

Yes you can mount disk on the motor but chances are you will need to use a spacer or 3-4 m5 washers to give the clearance between the disk and calliper and motor!

cell-mans mac 500 is a lot smaller and can do 29-31 mph max on an infineon controller with the 120% speed setting in the controller, on 44 volt 12S LiPo, or 25-27 on 10S LiPo,

The mac is also much easier to pedal because of the free wheel!

Also you would be much better going with cell-mans A123 LifeP04, which can supply high power setups, Golden Motors batteries are fine if you want to use their controllers which are not capable of more than 15-20 amps and you will find yourself wanting a lot more!

In the end we all want more power and if you get a battery that can't give out the amps, then you have wasted a lot of money to begin with!

I would go with a LiPo battery set up, but that is complicated if you have not used LiPo before!


Mark

[adobian]

On average, how much do people spend for battery to achieve 40MPH?

[snellemin]

How much do you guys pay for the Magic Pie kit these days?
Is this a good price for it?
http://www.sdelectricbike.com/G_M_KITS.html

I need a kit that could mount disc brake in the rear, and should be 28 inch because this is a 29er bike.

I purchased my motor directly from goldenmotor.ca when they had a sale.

I spend around 300 dollars on batteries to go 40mph. My commute is short, so I don't need to spend a ton of money on batteries. Currently running 24s2p A123 with my magic pie and I get around 38-39mph onces they warm up. I only used 2800mah on my 5.5 mile commute going full speed this morning.

[adobian]

I have just talked to the guy at YescomUSA. I said that the 48V 500W kit and the 48V 1000W contain the same motor. It's just the controller of the 500W is weaker and it's limiting the current to the motor.

He said it's not true. He said the wattage handling is specified by the motor, not the controller.

Am I right or is he right?

[wesnewell]

I have just talked to the guy at YescomUSA. I said that the 48V 500W kit and the 48V 1000W contain the same motor. It's just the controller of the 500W is weaker and it's limiting the current to the motor.

He said it's not true. He said the wattage handling is specified by the motor, not the controller.

Am I right or is he right?

I've got both the 500W and the 1000W. They are NOT the same motor. They are not the same controller either. The 500W kit comes with a 12fet controller of unknown make. The 1000W kit comes with a15fet EB215-A-5 Infinion controller that supports many options if enabled. Both controllers are 30A+/-, so they both work the same on each motor. Using the same battery pack the 1000W motor runs ~35% faster than the 500W motor. The amount of watts given to the motor is controlled by the controller. Uh, that's why it called a controller. I shunt modded the original 500W controller to 42A and torque increased accordingly. Top speed remained the same on level ground. The specified wattage for a motor is just a rating for continuous use. It will suck up whatever your controller gives it. How the motor is constructed determines its speed/torque at a certain voltage and wattage. I should add that the 500W motor is rated at 380rpm at 48V and the 1000W motor is rated at 470rpm at 48V. That's why there's a speed difference at the same voltage.

[adobian]

Thanks to you, I spent a little more for the 1000W kit. I picked up today at their wherehouse. On my way to my first ebike

[wesnewell]

Thanks to you, I spent a little more for the 1000W kit. I picked up today at their wherehouse. On my way to my first ebike

I don't think you'll be disappointed. It's a great deal with a very durable motor that will take lots of power without overheating and feature packed controller.

[Racer_X]

snellemin, like your build.
But I must have missed something, Doesn't the Magic Pie have and internal controller and if so how did you bypass it?
I can imagine if you remove the internal controller it will it will allow you to run higher voltage due to mass.

So can you explain how you solved the limitations of the internal controller?
thanks

[snellemin]

I purchased the Magic Pie without the internal controller. The motor still runs cool on 74V in the crazy Houston heat, which is about 38mph. Pushing more voltage just to go 44mph just gets the motor way to hot for my liking. I'm still running the stock motor wires with 4mm bullet connectors.

[Racer_X]

Thanks snellemin, Glad to know about the Magic Pie without controller option.
Keep us posted with any new information, I have subscribed to this post.

[Racer_X]

Reading about this build left me amazed about the magic pie so I thought I would do some research.
It turns out that you can buy the Magic Pie motor wired for external controller from various GM distributors, and use an infinion based controller
from a non GM supplier. Like a Lyen controller
This motor has from what has been written serious torque starting at around 40 amps @ 48-52 volts.
I heard as proven with this thread that it can go quite fast with a 72 volts.
I also heard that At 60+ amps this MP is an animal and you really need serious torque arms to keep the axel from spinning in the dropouts of the bike frame!

In researching this thing I also found out there is going to be a version 3 of the Magic Pie out soon

for an external controller version of the Magic Pie you can check out GM canada, arizonaebikes.com, goldenmotorusa-d.com etc etc.
good luck

[o00scorpion00o]

HI Racer_X.

Indeed you need serious torque arms with the Pie motor, with anything over 20 amps I would say!

At 60+ amps you will probably do wheelies!

I've not heard of a magic pie 3, I think what is meant is their dual pie kit will be released sometime in 2012!



Snellemin

What's the phase colours of your controller to pie, you are using an Infineon?

Mark