39mph w/Ebay motor and Lyen sensorless controller

[snellemin]

How much do you guys pay for the Magic Pie kit these days?
Is this a good price for it?
http://www.sdelectricbike.com/G_M_KITS.html

I need a kit that could mount disc brake in the rear, and should be 28 inch because this is a 29er bike.

I purchased my motor directly from goldenmotor.ca when they had a sale.

I spend around 300 dollars on batteries to go 40mph. My commute is short, so I don't need to spend a ton of money on batteries. Currently running 24s2p A123 with my magic pie and I get around 38-39mph onces they warm up. I only used 2800mah on my 5.5 mile commute going full speed this morning.

[adobian]

I have just talked to the guy at YescomUSA. I said that the 48V 500W kit and the 48V 1000W contain the same motor. It's just the controller of the 500W is weaker and it's limiting the current to the motor.

He said it's not true. He said the wattage handling is specified by the motor, not the controller.

Am I right or is he right?

[wesnewell]

I have just talked to the guy at YescomUSA. I said that the 48V 500W kit and the 48V 1000W contain the same motor. It's just the controller of the 500W is weaker and it's limiting the current to the motor.

He said it's not true. He said the wattage handling is specified by the motor, not the controller.

Am I right or is he right?

I've got both the 500W and the 1000W. They are NOT the same motor. They are not the same controller either. The 500W kit comes with a 12fet controller of unknown make. The 1000W kit comes with a15fet EB215-A-5 Infinion controller that supports many options if enabled. Both controllers are 30A+/-, so they both work the same on each motor. Using the same battery pack the 1000W motor runs ~35% faster than the 500W motor. The amount of watts given to the motor is controlled by the controller. Uh, that's why it called a controller. I shunt modded the original 500W controller to 42A and torque increased accordingly. Top speed remained the same on level ground. The specified wattage for a motor is just a rating for continuous use. It will suck up whatever your controller gives it. How the motor is constructed determines its speed/torque at a certain voltage and wattage. I should add that the 500W motor is rated at 380rpm at 48V and the 1000W motor is rated at 470rpm at 48V. That's why there's a speed difference at the same voltage.

[adobian]

Thanks to you, I spent a little more for the 1000W kit. I picked up today at their wherehouse. On my way to my first ebike

[wesnewell]

Thanks to you, I spent a little more for the 1000W kit. I picked up today at their wherehouse. On my way to my first ebike

I don't think you'll be disappointed. It's a great deal with a very durable motor that will take lots of power without overheating and feature packed controller.

[Racer_X]

snellemin, like your build.
But I must have missed something, Doesn't the Magic Pie have and internal controller and if so how did you bypass it?
I can imagine if you remove the internal controller it will it will allow you to run higher voltage due to mass.

So can you explain how you solved the limitations of the internal controller?
thanks

[snellemin]

I purchased the Magic Pie without the internal controller. The motor still runs cool on 74V in the crazy Houston heat, which is about 38mph. Pushing more voltage just to go 44mph just gets the motor way to hot for my liking. I'm still running the stock motor wires with 4mm bullet connectors.

[Racer_X]

Thanks snellemin, Glad to know about the Magic Pie without controller option.
Keep us posted with any new information, I have subscribed to this post.

[Racer_X]

Reading about this build left me amazed about the magic pie so I thought I would do some research.
It turns out that you can buy the Magic Pie motor wired for external controller from various GM distributors, and use an infinion based controller
from a non GM supplier. Like a Lyen controller
This motor has from what has been written serious torque starting at around 40 amps @ 48-52 volts.
I heard as proven with this thread that it can go quite fast with a 72 volts.
I also heard that At 60+ amps this MP is an animal and you really need serious torque arms to keep the axel from spinning in the dropouts of the bike frame!

In researching this thing I also found out there is going to be a version 3 of the Magic Pie out soon

for an external controller version of the Magic Pie you can check out GM canada, arizonaebikes.com, goldenmotorusa-d.com etc etc.
good luck

[o00scorpion00o]

HI Racer_X.

Indeed you need serious torque arms with the Pie motor, with anything over 20 amps I would say!

At 60+ amps you will probably do wheelies!

I've not heard of a magic pie 3, I think what is meant is their dual pie kit will be released sometime in 2012!



Snellemin

What's the phase colours of your controller to pie, you are using an Infineon?

Mark

[snellemin]

I'm using a Lyen sensorless controller, so phase wire colors don't matter to me. I just swap out two wires to reverse motor direction.

[o00scorpion00o]

Thanks for the reply Snellemin,

I blew the halls in my Mac, swapping controllers with a cycle analyst connector and I was using a 6 pin jst on the halls on my motor because I hadn't got a 5 pin and plugged the halls into the cycle analyst connector by accident. OOPS!

It's going to be a major pain to open the motor and replace halls so that's why I got Pat's old pie, that will keep me going for a while!

I guess I'll just have to play around with phase combinations! not fun

The magic pie looks freaking huge now compared to the mac!


Mark

[snellemin]

I got me some new tires. These are 26x 2.3 Michelin Pilot sport. Ride is way more comfortable at speeds over 30mph and can take corners alot faster with the increase in side grip. I was also pulling 1800-1900W continuous doing 35mph with a strong headwind. Weather is cooler today and the Magic Pie was barely warm when I got to work.

[snellemin]

I tried to see how far I could go without charging my small 4000mah pack. I pedaled along averaging 20-22mph and few full burst of power. Out of 3060mah I got 15.28 miles. CA shows 15.2 Wh/mi. So it looks like I can eak out 20 mile max out of my setup.

[o00scorpion00o]

I tried to see how far I could go without charging my small 4000mah pack. I pedaled along averaging 20-22mph and few full burst of power. Out of 3060mah I got 15.28 miles. CA shows 15.2 Wh/mi. So it looks like I can eak out 20 mile max out of my setup.

Those tyres or (tires) look really cool, my tyres are 26x1.6 but that's because I like to pedal, but the handling is not good at 30+ mph!

It must have been hard work to pedal for most of the 15 miles with the pie? I know it kills me, or you must have very level roads there?

I can't wait to build my next setup, I will use around the same voltage as you, the pie is some beast!


Mark

[snellemin]

The Michelins are great. So much more bite going into and out of turn at high speeds. Actually they are not bad pedaling with the Pie as an assist and 14T gear. My commute to work is on flat roads, so it's not bad pedalling. My regular mountain bike uses 2.1 in front and 2.3 in the rear, so I guess I'm use to pedalling with that size tire.
My older tires where on the Ebike was 1.9 for the front and 2.0 in the rear. They were good in a straight line, but I had to slow down alot going into turns. Dusty conditions made it worst, but no more with the new tires. I've looked at the 2.5 hook worms, but like the design and price of the Michelins better.

The weather is much cooler now, so I'll be pedalling more often to work. I'm wanting to complete the http://www.warriordash.com/ in 45 minutes, which is cutting down my old time my 10 minutes. I wish I could do it faster, but my poor lungs and legs won't allow it. It is a 3 mile, 10 obsticale course. Pretty fun to do.

This is me in last August in North Carolina

[o00scorpion00o]

Haha aren't you lucky you didn't land on your ass on the hot coal?


By the way have you got regen on the sensor less controller? on Lyen's site it says no regen and only 75 volts for the sensor less controller ?

[snellemin]

At time of purchase, he hadn't figured out the regen on the sensorless controller. But I got a message from him not long ago that he got it to work. Lyen tested the controller out up to 100V before sending it to me. The sensorless controller is the non-infineon based version, which is not listed. PM him for more info.

Those coals don't look too bad until you jumped over them. That was a fun day.

[snellemin]

I got 38mph at 1500W this morning to work with a slight tailwind. The taller Michelins gave me the extra mph. I actually measured the circumference with a small rope and ended up with 84" and updated the CA with the new number. I also went from 30PSI to 50PSI on both the front and back. I trued up the rear wheel last nite to get rid of the ghetto whobble that started a month ago.

[o00scorpion00o]

I got 38mph at 1500W this morning to work with a slight tailwind. The taller Michelins gave me the extra mph. I actually measured the circumference with a small rope and ended up with 84" and updated the CA with the new number. I also went from 30PSI to 50PSI on both the front and back. I trued up the rear wheel last nite to get rid of the ghetto whobble that started a month ago.

Wow 30 psi was really really low ?

I run 80-90 psi on my Continental sport contacts and boy does it freewheel for ages, though they are only 26x1.6 and pretty narrow but a dream to cycle with!

[snellemin]

30 psi was really comfortable and you could barely tell it was "low", while still feeling stable. But I must say that 50 psi does feel smoother.

[o00scorpion00o]

38-40 mph is a lot of fun isn't it ?

I must say that I like the fact the mac can do that on 16S, though I miss the regen of the pie, I need to install Doc's beastly torque arms for it as there is slight movement in my own torque arms that only matters with regen but I'm keeping them for a future project.

I would keep at least 50 psi to save more battery, beside you got a rear suspension.

I had a bike like yours with the same type of suspension and it made me bounce way too much, there was no control on the spring, If you could upgrade the rear shock I bet it would make it a lot more stable!

The reason I got rid of it was because I couldn't upgrade the front forks because it's impossible to find decent forks in a 1" steerer!

[snellemin]

I made a monster cap bank for my bike. Bike is way more responsive now at launch and no more power cutoff at startup. I used 19 100V 1500uF caps.

[o00scorpion00o]

Holy crap!

That's cool, I would imagine an incredible spark connecting to the battery?

Did you have a lot of voltage sag to begin with ?

Is the voltage much different ?

[snellemin]

I wasn't having issues when I was running lower voltages. It's when I started going up in voltage that I was having throttle issues. I had to gradually increase my throttle to get up to speed. Not an issue in zero traffic, but kinda annoying in heavy traffic. Happens with both lipo and A123 power source.

I use a precharge resistor, so still no spark.