39mph w/Ebay motor and Lyen sensorless controller

[snellemin]

That is what Lyen told me. Dunno, but I'll see today how the caps work on my way to work.

[snellemin]

From a slow roll I hit the throttle and saw peaks of 3850W with 28s2p A123. But I'll be riding on 24s2p A123, which is still fast enough for me.

[o00scorpion00o]

That is interesting,

My mac pulls 3500 watts on 16S LiPo, still a fair bit less voltage than yours!

That's good to know though for future projects, thanks for sharing!

[snellemin]

It was great riding to work. Very responsive throttle and it pulls hard. Had a good tailwind and was doing 40.9MPH on 74.6V.

[o00scorpion00o]

Yeah the pie is a great motor al right

I may buy back the pie from my friend and drill the covers, I bet it will take a hell of a lot of power!

Remember it pulled me up a 16% grade (3kw) for 2 miles and survived, granted it did smell funny and I burned the halls, but next time I'll drill the covers, something you should think about if you are worried about heat!

Maybe 20S would help me get up faster!

But anyway that was the extreme!

[snellemin]

Youtube link of my commute home http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05IY79aQ3kk&hd=1

[o00scorpion00o]

Youtube link of my commute home http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05IY79aQ3kk&hd=1

Hi Snellemin,

I can't see the vid as YouTube seems to be bad here today, sometimes I find YouTube is brutal slow, or maybe my ISP throttles YouTube ?

Anyway, how are you getting on with the capacitors?

You didn't have much sag with those cells did you ? Or was it purely because of the high voltage ?

The a123 cells should be well up to the job ?

[snellemin]

You could try to play the lowest quality 360 mode on youtube.

The caps are great. For fun I didn't use the precharge cap and see what it would do. Holy crap, I almost welded the plug together.
I had no issues with the batteries before the caps. Just when I went with a higher voltage I got some stuttering at hard throttle. I'm sticking with 26s2p A123's now, which gives me 40-42mph with a tailwind and 36mph with a headwind. Controller will also be less stressed with the additional caps. Build a cap bank and try it out.
The A123 are well up to the task. I use them in my RC toys, drag racing 1/8 scale. My 4s2p A123 setup beats any lipo setup off the line where it counts. Check out my other vids on youtube.

[snellemin]

Here's another vid of my commute to work
http://youtu.be/xRTXv4YJk3Y?hd=1

[o00scorpion00o]

You sure have good roads and nice weather!

I don't know if I would be comfortable riding with traffic in the middle of the road though ?

The sensorless controller seems to work really well, which is good to know!

Most of the roads (lanes) or whatever you would call them don't have a lot of traffic and are barely wide enough for 2 cars to pass, only thing I have to really be careful of are tractors with big machinery behind them

[snellemin]

The weather has been nice lately. Here is another vid of me heading home last nite http://youtu.be/v7Wcuzikyuw

The sensorless controller is really nice and as you can see I have no need for a sensored version.

[o00scorpion00o]

hah I saw the lad on the motorbike trying to get you to race him, I couldn't see who pulled off quicker ?

I still think I would be too nervous to ride an electric bicycle at speed on those roads, especially at night ?

How would drivers know you were stopping hard ? and indicators ? hmmm how bout a vectrix ?

I think if I had those roads that it would be safer to buy an electric scooter. There isn't even a shoulder to ride in, and no bicycle lanes, almost as bad as here!

You didn't get regen going did you ? I had a bike like that with V brakes,

But hey, it's running well now, congrats!

[snellemin]

The guy on the bike just complimented my ride and was suprised it went that fast.

I have a bright red flasher on the back of my helmet and one on my rear of my bike. The bag is reflective and the tires have the reflective line around them. My wife's bike has the brakelight, but it tops out at 17mph or so.

I didn't get the regen done. I think I would blow the controller if I did. One day I'll get a new fork to fit disk brakes. My regular mountainbike has hydraulic brakes. Go figure. You can see that bike at the beginning of this vid--> http://youtu.be/_QGhAKWwow0

[o00scorpion00o]

Yep, that's the kinda bike you should have your pie II on, I know it's a hardtail, but the stopping power of hydraulics is essential, in my opinion anyway, especially here where it's wet more than dry!

I found on the full suspension bike I had like yours, the back shock was far too bouncy, while better than no suspension, was just bouncing all over the place, the handling was too bad, but yours might be better. The frame I found was far too weak too. But I suppose the 10 kg ping didn't help on the seat post!

That hard tail though looks the job. You might even be able to mount the batteries in the frame with the falcon ev bag!

[snellemin]

The hydraulics in the rain and mud is best, but I don't ride my ebike in the rain. My ride is pretty smooth with the rear shock set stiff and running on those sticky 2.3 Michelins.
I do have my old ebay motor still that I'm sometimes wanting to add to the hardtail. But that is my bike I ride the trails on with my son.

[o00scorpion00o]

seems like you could do with the hard tail on the road and the full suspension on the trails!

I would like to compare your pie on 87 volts to my mac on 60 volts. It's a shame I can't off road with the mac. I hope to buy back my friend pat's pie for very little and make another bike, in a year or 2. I would probably run the same voltage as you but I wouldn't have the issue with heat as you did with you're LiPo, by the way what LiPo were you using ? the zippy's get fairly warm if I run full throttle for 10 miles and climb steep hills, so maybe the Texas heat might take it's toll on them ?

I could use the battery I have now and swap it from the mac bike to the pie bike, but just remove or add the packs I want for the voltage I need, that's what I like about Lipo, and it kinda makes up for the lack of BMS.

All I'd have to do is add another 2 x4s or 6S packs for 74 volts or 81 volts nominal, though at 91 volts might be too high for the infineon, but I could get 33-35 on 16S LiPo with the infineon set to 120% speed, so close to 40mph on 20S LiPo would probably be more like it.

On the cycle analyst I see peaks of 75 amps, so that's about 4200 watts peak, through the mac! Don't tell cell-man!

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Snellemin,

What current settings have you on your controller ? I'm thinking if I should get a sensorless controller for the pie or upgrade the clutch for the mac. So I want to know have you the software and cable to adjust and did you play with the settings ?

I remember you had problems with higher voltage, did you adjust the settings in the controller to see if it made a difference ?

I killed the clutch in the mac, I can put the bmc v4 upgraded clutch in but it will cost as much as a sensorless controller from Lyen.

I'm in a bit of a dilemma, because the mac controller runs really bad on the pie, the sensors are bad, with the older controller it at least ran ok. And my mac's clutch is dead!

AT least with the pie I can gun the throttle and know it will be perfect, but I can't pedal it like the mac.

I can't have it all

[snellemin]

Sorry to hear about your blown clutch.

I played around with the CA and got better throttle at a higher voltage. Still not as good as I would like and the culprit is the actual throttle. Because when I use the cruise control buttons to throttle up, everything works great. I'm currently running 24s2p A123 again and everything works fine. It's when I run 26s and 28s that I get problems. 24s is still fast enough, so I'm set until I get a higher voltage controller from Lyen.
I never changed the stock setting within the controller. I left it as is. All I remember is that Lyen had set the max amperage at 40A. I do have the usb dongle to hook it up to the PC to change settings though.

[o00scorpion00o]

Yeah she finally gave up after 6 months abuse, it can be fixed of course, so I can either put a cheaper clutch in or the upgraded bmc v4 clutch. Only thing is the keyway might give up again with the new clutch. So I don't know if I should just get a normal clutch and just turn down the amps. But I loved the mac, especially the free wheeling!

I'm pulling 3400 ish watts from my infineon, so that's 55 ish amps @ 60 volts. I turned it to about 50 battery and 100 phase, made a big difference, you should bump it up a bit, especially if you have the software and cable!

But I'm glad you finally nailed down the problem to the throttle.

That Pie is a great motor and will last forever, it was only since I went up a 16% mountain pulling 3kw for about 2.5 miles did I fry the halls and the motor did smell funny, but it survived and I couldn't be bothered trying to fix the halls again. Drilling the covers would make a big difference for that kind of abuse.

What's your max speed on 24S and that's LiFeP04 ? what voltage is that ? and is that hot off the charger ?

But if I were you I'd turn up the amps a bit!

[snellemin]

I'll mess with the controller soon enough. I still have home projects to finish. I have some wood flooring to finish, some tile work, fix my fence and clean the yard of dead banana trees before it gets cold again. After that I have to rebuild and maintain 6 or so of my RC toys. Those toys pull way more amps than my bike does. I can heat up a 5000mah 40C lipo in 2 minutes in my smallest 4x4 offroader.

24s A123 is around 72-74v under load for me and near 40mph with a tail wind. I will confirm when the weather is nice again.

Here are two vids I took recently of my RC's. Both are amp hungry setups.

[o00scorpion00o]

That's cool! now if we could only accelerate like that on our bikes!

If you haven't yet played with your controller settings than it's probably at 100% speed, turning it up to 120% will make it go around 5 mph faster, and you might actually be happy with your 24S!

But turning up the amps will make you smile for sure!

I was getting 35 mph out of 16S Lipo!

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi snellemin,

I got a Lyen sensorless 12 fet infineon today, it's the newer EB312 controller.

It works brilliantly on the pie, I got the software cable so I'll play with the settings later. It pulls 1700 watts so I definitely need to turn it up.

I can't remember if you said but how many watts are you pulling ?


Mark

[snellemin]

Mine pulls more than that on take off. At times I see peaks over 3000W on the CA.

My shunt resistance in the CA is set for 1.75. I have confirm it with my eagletree datalogger and my Powerlab 8 charger.

[snellemin]

I just got two Blue Lipo 5000mah 20C 6s1p packs. Resistance is higher the GensAce packs, but perfectly fine for ebike usage. I made a 20s1p pack with two additional Gensace 4s1p hardcase packs and when for a test drive last night. I saw a peak of 4000W.

[o00scorpion00o]

I think the shunt value is different on mine, mine is the Lyen sensorless MKII .

Top speed is 30 mph with working halls it went to 35-36 mph on 16S LiPo.

Much the same as yours 3500 watts on acceleration, but I see 80 amps peak ont he cycle analyst, that's 4800 watts!

I have the amps turned up to 60 battery and 110 amps phase, it lifts the front wheel!

By the way what's your speed on 20S ?