Arlo has another build ;) 06 BWS 50 (zuma) Hybrid! IT RUNS!

[whatever]

thanks for explanation on erpm guys

[Arlo1]

OK So. I am almost done machiening the magnet bell... I got my new clutch bell today and welded the new peice of pipe to it. And Machined it all.
My Air gap is .021" Or .5mm I will Have .046" or 1.1mm gap between each set of two magnets. (2 will be + followed by gap then 2 -) 16 sets for 32 magnets total with 94% coverage! They are N42 neo mags I ordered a while back and it just turns out biff said n42 is better because they take more heat!
I am making it as light as possible. The magent ring is .076" or 1.93mm Thick I am not sure how thick it should be???? I want it light but Its going to rev ~14000 rpm!

And I am going to ask biff to look if I should cut the ends off the stator lams that are perpendicular to the magents.

[Arlo1]

Bump for anyone who know if the stator lams should be cut off? Look at the 3rd last picture.

[Thud]

Hey Arlo,
If it was me, Id cut them off. If they are in the Magnet path they will be just making heat. Lets see if any one else has an opinion.
T

[Thud]

that is assuming the ends are not laminations....if they are laminated they should be fine.

[Arlo1]

Hey Arlo,
If it was me, Id cut them off. If they are in the Magnet path they will be just making heat. Lets see if any one else has an opinion.
T

Thats what i figured.. I think they are a part of the last lamination. I will look when i rewind it.

[Biff]

End Laminations.

If you aren't re-winding you can probably cut them off without changing performance significantly. They are handy to have if you are re-winding as they keep the wires from popping while you wind. They might not be highly electrive conductve, If they aren't you can just leave them there. If they are magnetic core (ferromagnetic) they they are actually performing work by directing the flux of the coils to the ends of the magnets, increasing the power of your motor. It is hard to say what value they are actually providing / sacrificing without looking at it.

Rotor Flux ring Thickness

A Neo42 magnet generally has a Br of around 0.95 Tesla, and Iron saturates at 2 Tesla.

Tesla is a unit of Flux Density, and since half your flux travels between magnet poles (1/2 goes to the magnet to the right, 1/2 goes to the magnet to the left) you want about the flux ring thickness to be about 1/4 the width of your magnet pole. (1/2 flux in something that can handle 2x the flux density = 1/4 the cross section)

Since you have 2 magnets making each pole, you want your flux ring to be about 1/2 the width of one of your magnets. I haven't read your thread that carefully, but it looks like your magnets are about 12mm wide, so you want about 6mm of flux ring. One way to tell if you have enough is to put a piece of iron on the outside of the flux ring, it should have almost no attractive force if you are at saturation, and no attractive force if you have more iron than that. A good design should have just a little more iron than saturation.

Also you mentioned that I said that Neo42 has higher temp ratings, and that isn't entirely accurate. High temperature Neo 42 has higher temp ratings than Neo52 or other high MGOe magnets. As you get higher temp ratings, your maximum energy Product (MGOe, i.e 42, 48, or 52 ) decreases, so you simply can't get Neo52 with higher than 80C ratings. You can still get Neo 42 with 80C temp ratings, but you can also get Neo42 with 150C Temp ratings, you have to be sure you get the high temp rating stuff if that is what you want (and I hope it is).

-ryan

[Arlo1]

Thanks Ryan. Very handy to know. I am building a second ring. So I will make it a bit different to help with those issues to build the best motor possible.

[Arlo1]

I almost didn't get it but..... Yup I lucked out and popsicle sticks were just the thickness the last one was a real..... SOB I used a tiny screwdriver to wedge between then two magnets and slide the popsicle stick in!

[Arlo1]

I was a little worried about making sure I didn't get one magnet in with the polarity wrong so I got out the magnet viewer film and had a look.... I also double checked with another magnet and they look good!

[parabellum]

Your stator, is a gen of one ICE motorcycle/scooter in previous life?

[Arlo1]

Your stator, is a gen of one ICE motorcycle/scooter in previous life?

Yes its a motorcycle stator from a charging system!! All i need is ~1-2 hp it will just be nice to know it can be a bit more!

[parabellum]

This one is easily 1st place candidate for production scooter (plug in) hybrid upgrade kit.

[Arlo1]

This one is easily 1st place candidate for production scooter (plug in) hybrid upgrade kit.

Yeh the problem is i just found a random stator that looked good and i have no idea what its out of.... Maybe a 80's or 90's sport bike its a 3 phase ac so it had a seprate vr sensor for timing.

[Arlo1]

Just a quick up date. I hope to get this thing running this weekend then spend the next month working out the bugs.

[Arlo1]

Just got the stator mounted in the cover and went for a ride just on GAS power to see if the drag was noticeable and its not.... And that's with somewhat shorted windings they measure 0ohm to ground.... I got a couple tests with my oscilloscope too to see what the current kv is so I can count how many turns to rewind it with.

[Arlo1]

Couple more

[Arlo1]

I went for a couple test rides today just on the gas power and with an unwound stator. I cut the horizontal end lamination's off and found it helped reduce drag but when I went for a longer ride it got very hot. So I pulled the whole stator apart and I painted one side of the lams with hi heat paint but I talked to a local dude who re-winds AC motors and he has some electrically insinuative paint I can coat them with so soon....

[Farfle]

Nice work on the motor man! looking at your pictures Its kinda eerie how similar your lathe/shop setup is to mine.

[Arlo1]

Got some nomex paper coming. And I got a free can of electrically insulate paint from one of the kids fathers (just so happens he rewinds motors for a living) who I volunteer with on Tuesday nights.
This stuff looks like it has a lot of good potential.

[Teh Stork]

Arlo, nice work so far - but I see a major issue with the configuration you've chosen. The clutch bell produces vast amounts of heat! It definitely reached 200-300degC in my application (your magnets will be toast). During dragracing I killed a few before I added cooling fins to mine.

Stroked, ported, every possible mod - and after dynoing for countless hours - mine did 0-80 kph in just over 4 seconds. Would definitely like to revisit this with my newfound knowledge in C, microcontrollers, and ebike possibillities. Having a hybrid would be fun ^^,

[Arlo1]

Arlo, nice work so far - but I see a major issue with the configuration you've chosen. The clutch bell produces vast amounts of heat! It definitely reached 200-300degC in my application (your magnets will be toast). During dragracing I killed a few before I added cooling fins to mine.

Stroked, ported, every possible mod - and after dynoing for countless hours - mine did 0-80 kph in just over 4 seconds. Would definitely like to revisit this with my newfound knowledge in C, micro controllers, and ebike possibilities. Having a hybrid would be fun ^^,

I have spent countless hours setting these up as well I do about 2-5 bigbores a year and thats boring to me. With chantal's scooter I kept the clutch engagement at a low rpm yes it makes is slower off the line but in turn keeps it cool as a cucumber and it lasts longer! The goal its to keep the gas engine a 49cc and use the electricity to make it faster. Once I figure this out. I am willing to bet this will be capable of beating your modded scoot. But for chantals daily use it will be de-tuned a bit The nice thing with this is I can crank it up for a few races then turn it back down with a few key strokes and it will last almost forever!

[Teh Stork]

Arlo, nice work so far - but I see a major issue with the configuration you've chosen. The clutch bell produces vast amounts of heat! It definitely reached 200-300degC in my application (your magnets will be toast). During dragracing I killed a few before I added cooling fins to mine.

Stroked, ported, every possible mod - and after dynoing for countless hours - mine did 0-80 kph in just over 4 seconds. Would definitely like to revisit this with my newfound knowledge in C, micro controllers, and ebike possibilities. Having a hybrid would be fun ^^,

I have spent countless hours setting these up as well I do about 2-5 bigbores a year and thats boring to me. With chantal's scooter I kept the clutch engagement at a low rpm yes it makes is slower off the line but in turn keeps it cool as a cucumber and it lasts longer! The goal its to keep the gas engine a 49cc and use the electricity to make it faster. Once I figure this out. I am willing to bet this will be capable of beating your modded scoot. But for chantals daily use it will be de-tuned a bit The nice thing with this is I can crank it up for a few races then turn it back down with a few key strokes and it will last almost forever!

Well, you would have to match 13kW wheel power, good luck with that! I do not have mine anymore, rediculous cost pr km driven. Sulking in 1,2L gasoline pr 10km :S And the maintenance, not going back in some good time

[johnrobholmes]

I have wanted to do this type of project for a long time! Awesome job! You could have your starting motor, assist motor, TCI, and brake all in one on the right bike!

[Arlo1]

I have wanted to do this type of project for a long time! Awesome job! You could have your starting motor, assist motor, TCI, and brake all in one on the right bike!

Thanks man. Honda has had a scooter out for a long time that uses the stator as a brushless motor to start the bike. The rukus is one of them!