Long Term testing of an ATS Speed Drive

[Accountant]

Hello everyone,

This is what I can offer :

ATS speed drive 1:1,6 ratio. It is not a cheap chinese copy. It is manufactured in Taiwan under original licence :






Now it comes with original cranckarms,black, 172,5 mm long, which I bought in Switzerland directly from Shclumpf :






If you are realy rich, buy original product. It is Swiss quality and it will last at least 200 years, like Swiss watches.

I think that it is beautifull, but also it is pure overkill at the same time...

Speed drive is more than good enought for the job, and will also last about up to your lifetime.


Chainrings can easily be obtained from ebay or local bicycle shops. They should come with 5 holes 110 BCD standards

[Quajochem]

Where can I find chain ring and cranks?

ATS itself does no reply to emails.

Those crank arms also look very standard to me! Correct me if im wrong, but the only thing that isn't standard is the bracket itself, those shift buttons are part of it..

[Accountant]

Those crank arms also look very standard to me!


WRONG.

I was looking for apropriate crankarms for a few months.

Did not found them, and at the end bought from Schlumpf directly.

Very hard too find crancks that will work well with shifting buttons.

[MattyCiii]

I have a Nuvinci rear hub, and I am also worried about the chainline, if it isn't straight enough I'll need some spacers!

My setups are the same... I'm retrofitting one bike that already has a NuVinci with an ATS drive, and building a second bike up from the frame to use both the ATS and NuVinci. I have 2mm and 4mm spacers on the way just to give me options. I'll post pix when I get the parts in.

[Quajochem]

Those crank arms also look very standard to me!


WRONG.

I was looking for apropriate crankarms for a few months.

Did not found them, and at the end bought from Schlumpf directly.

Very hard too find crancks that will work well with shifting buttons.

What exactly is different then? Is it the size of the square hole?

[kfong]

Accountant, how much plus shipping to Mi. 48310 USA?

[Quajochem]

I have a Nuvinci rear hub, and I am also worried about the chainline, if it isn't straight enough I'll need some spacers!

My setups are the same... I'm retrofitting one bike that already has a NuVinci with an ATS drive, and building a second bike up from the frame to use both the ATS and NuVinci. I have 2mm and 4mm spacers on the way just to give me options. I'll post pix when I get the parts in.

great!

[Accountant]

What exactly is different then? Is it the size of the square hole?[/quote]

Depth is different, and cranckarms are thinner than usual.

Prety tricky.

[MattyCiii]

OK, awhile back in this thread I promised I'd post some pics of the ATS drive installation. Well here goes.

I rented the tool set from ebikessf.com. They have an excellent installation video that was my guide. Renting the tool set was about $50 all told (that's rental plus shipping to me/back to ebikessf). Refund of $350 deposit was prompt. Very happy with how this is going so far...

Renting the tool set was very worthwhile, as I bought 3 ATS drives to install on 3 bikes. So, my cost per for installation is about $18.

Here are the pictures.
The most important part of the tool set: The chamfer tool is centered in the picture.


Here's bike #1, my spare bike. It's a 2007 Dahon Jetstream with NuVinci N360 rear hub. A great, versatile commuter bike. The ATS SpeedDrive will give me more gear range without the hassle of putting front chainrings on a folding bike. Here's the BB shell prior to chamfering.

A crank puller and bottom bracket removal tool are a must.

Another view


Here's me, using the chamfer tool the hard way (there are two springs, use them as shown in the video or get ready to spin that nut on the right a whole lot more than you need to)


A bike stand would have been nice, keep my back from aching, but it's easy enough to chamfer the BB with the bike upside down on its bars


Side 1: 45 degree chamfer, smooth and easy:


Side 2: Just as easy, but starting to get the hang of it so I didn't need to take the tool off & inspect quite as often


The "nut" you use on the left crank size has the mating 45 degree chamfer and can be used on both sides to gage depth


Once I got everything chamfered, I tried to mount the drive tightened to specification. But, the nut bottomed on its threads before I could apply torque. I had to order thicker spacers (they come in 0mm (pictured, I think), 0.5mm, 2mm, 4mm and 6mm). The spacers help with my problem (BB too narrow) and probably chain alignment too - which is why I ordered some 2mm and 4mm spacers.

Here's the spacer cone the drive arrived with.


My rental of the tool set from ebikessf was for one week. Though I was done with the chamfer tool (on all three bikes), I still needed the rest of the tools - especially the "box spanner" for tightening the bottom bracket nut - once the new cone spacers arrive. I suppose I could have called/asked to stretch my rental a day or two if I thought the larger cone spacers would arrive imminently, but I was not comfortable with the shipping timeline on the spacers.

So, I bought my own box spanner from Utah Trikes. I bought some of my cone spacers from them, and the shipping was something like $9 flat rate, so why not? If I need to remove/service the Speed Drive, having my own spanner can come in handy. If I thought a bit longer about the purchase I would have had them throw in this kit, but since I missed the window on fixed price shipping I'll just improvise with tools I have on hand.

I'm still waiting on my spacers - once they arrive I'll show the rest of the installation.

[Quajochem]

Pff, looks complicated, spacers, more special tools...
Hope the chainline will be right first time...
But let's watch the video first

[Quajochem]

Where can I find chain ring and cranks?

ATS itself does no reply to emails.

http://www.utahtrikes.com/PRODINFO-Schl ... _Arms.html ?
http://www.utahtrikes.com/CAT-Internal%20Hubs.html

[etard]

That tool is nice, but for quick and dirty:

[Sacman]

Illia has a DETAILED VIDEO of the whole istallation process of the Schlumpf High Speed Drive... INCLUDING THE CHAMFERING of the frame bottom bracket.

[mabman]

A little canola oil during the cutting would be a good thing to add to the procedure. It will do a better job and allow the tool to stay sharper longer. Also using a torque wrench to get the proper nm. Using locktite on the holding screw is a good idea and will have to do that on mine.

[MattyCiii]

My next setback: Utah trikes just notified me their shipment from ATS did not contain any spanners, so I have to wait at least another month for their next order/shipment.

So for those installing their own Speed Drive and renting the tool set, I definitely recommend you have at least the 2mm cone spacer, and maybe a 4mm as well, if installing on a 68mm wide BB. That way you can get it all done in one sitting and avoid the wait.

[MattyCiii]

My next setback: Utah Trikes just notified me their shipment from ATS did not contain any spanners, so I have to wait at least another month for their next order/shipment.

To be clear, my intent in the quote above was not to bad mouth Utah Trikes. The Schlumpf/ATS drive is not very easy to come by, and I'm delighted stores like Utah Trikes, Cyclemonkey, and EbikesSF - stores who support the Speed Drive - are out there. All three have been a pleasure to deal with, are flexible, and charge what I believe to be a very fair price.

As luck would have it, Cyclemonkey reached out to me yesterday to say there was a delay in the parts I sourced through them - and the package would go out later that day. On a chance, I called them up (it's a very small company, possibly a one man shop) and asked if they carry the spanner tool I need. Neil (the owner) actually broke up a $49 tool kit to sell me just the spanner (and one other tool) I'm looking for at a very good price (basically the same price as the spanner I ordered from Utah). Having found a supplier of the spanner, I called Utah Trikes and cancelled my spanner order, which they did right away.

This is a good news story all around. Utah Trikes kept me informed about my order to keep my expectations realistic, based on events outside their control. A quick "sorry for the delay" e-mail from CyclMonkey turned into an opportunity for me and a sale for them. And of course none of this would be possible without ES User Accountant (who I purchased the Speed Drives from) and EbikesSF, who rented me the BB milling tool.

It sounds complicated - because it is. Again, this is a very small niche product. If I wanted simple I'd use a derailleur setup, like 99.9% of the other bikes out there, and be able to source tools and expertise from just about anywhere.

[MattyCiii]

My Speed Drive is installed!
Pictures and story to be added soon.

My first impression is this will be a great addition to my workhorse, pedal-only commuter. Over the last year I've gotten into good enough shape that the 360% gear range of the NuVinci is not enough. I hit the top end more often than I'd like, but I don't want to raise the whole range. There are still some hills where - if going uphill and there's a headwind - I cannot handle.

So, I dropped the hear range just about 20%, and added the Speed Drive. Normally I'll use it in 1:1 ratio, where per my initial impression there's no more drag on the drive than a standard BB. But in places where I have a decent downhill, or tail wind, I'll pop the button and use the 1:6 ratio and its higher gearing.

Here's the finished bike - it really looks no different than it did when I started, of course.


When in overdrive, you can definitely feel the gearing. Meaning not just that I can feel the amplification of my stroke, I can actually feel mild vibration from the planetary gearing. We'll see if that remains so after a few hundred miles, maybe the gears will "break in". Since I ride about 200-300 miles a month on that bike, maybe my best move is to leave it in overdrive unless I need the low end for the first month.

Anyhow, I'll be doing a write-up of the rest of the installation - but I wanted to get my first impressions out there right away!

[Alan B]

Did you put oil into the planetary gearcase? Do they come filled, or is this part of the installation?

[MattyCiii]

The rest of the install:

First remove the existing BB. This was easy because I just had the BB off a few weeks ago, to machine the BB shell. 6mm allen wrench takes off the crank bolt:


Easy as pi


This crank removal tool was one of my best impulse buys in recent memory


Make sure the inner piece is backed way out. Then thread it into the crank all the way until it bottoms, then back off a half turn.


Now use a 6mm allen key and tighten the inner piece. Some crank parts have left threads on one side and right threads on the other, such that you tighten them as pedal. Not so with these bolts, they're the standard right hand thread on both sides. With this tool the crank arm comes off really easily.


Now go find your BB removal tool. This was about $20 at the LBS.



I had to wiggle it a bit to get it to engage, tight and square. You don't want to torque on this thing with it half engaged, the aluminum on that BB collar feels like it would shear right off if all splines not tight



It's counter-intuitive to me, but to loosen, I had to lift the handle of the spanner from the position it's shown in. Same would be so for the drive side (the BB threads are left/right as mentioned above)


I took a lot of pictures


Here it is with non drive side collar removed


Next, do the same steps on the drive side:

[MattyCiii]

Out comes the bottom bracket. I just had this thing replaced in the fall so it's in pretty good shape. Off to the spare parts bin...


Here's what delayed me: The stock cone washer on the left was too narrow for a snug installation. The 2mm cone spacer is on the right


The 2mm cone spacer was too tight of a fit, so I spent a few minutes sanding down its inside diameter so it would fit in place. Now the Speed Drive is placed into the BB

[MattyCiii]

Preparing to install the BB nut on the non-drive side. See the narrow threaded rod sticking out if the spindle? The Schlumpf tool set includes an aluminum spacer you place over that thing when using a crank removal tool. Betcha ten bucks I forget to use the spacer and ruin the drive when the time comes to remove the cranks...


That spacer I was talking about. Store it somewhere safe.


I put a dab of automotive anti-seize lock on just about everything that has threads. Months/years down the road I won't have to learn new swear words while disassembling this thing.


The BB nut hand threaded on a couple of turns. A little grease, in red, to help with installing.


BB nut, Hand tight


That Schlumpg spanner I keep talking about


Spanner in place, ready to tighten. The worlds oldest torque wrench on the ground between my feet. I had to go back to the ebikessf.com install video to get the torque specification (140 newton meter) then convert it (103 foot pounds)


There it is, torqued to spec. Look how the splines that mate with the install/removal spanner machined off just a little more aluminum from the BB cup.


Clean all threads before applying anti-seize and installing


No show stoppers so far... I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop as I tighten the 14mm crank bolts. I had to tighten them way down, if the cranks are not seated fully, they sit too far out and you can't push the "shift" buttons down fully.

[MattyCiii]

There it is, with the shift button in place. This was before I got the cranks fully seated, so the button is an "innie"


Edit: Do NOT thread loc the buttons! They'll be impossible to remove! (original text: "I hear these buttons tend to fall off, but usually only when you've got your bike sitting over a storm drain. So, use thread loc")


One more shot of the button with its set screw installed Edit: Do NOT thread loc the buttons! They'll be impossible to remove! original text: "also thread loc'd"

[MattyCiii]

Three outstanding issues:

• First, I didn't have a perfect combination for chainring and sprocket, so I'm going to get a new sprocket with one less or one more tooth. This will keep me from having to put a half-link on the chain. Right now my Surly Singleator is keeping up the slack, but I have it tuned to max spring tension to do so.
• Second, I went from a chainring with an outer bash guard to one without. I'd like to buy/install one, hope they're not too hard to find. But in the mean time, my chainring bolts are too deep. I have four spacers, so I'm running the bike on 4 out of 5 chainring bolts.
• EDIT: Ignore this statement, see Alan B's post belowThird, I think I've blocked the grease port for the drive. See the phillips head screw on the top of the last post? Yeah, the crank might be too close to it for proper access, we'll see. If so I'll be glad I haven't lost that aluminum spacer for the crank removal tool, won't I?

[Alan B]

To clear the oil port, engage the gearing and spin the cranks. They turn at different rates, so the port will be clear at times.

Is there oil in the gearcase, or does that need to be added?

[MattyCiii]

To clear the oil port, engage the gearing and spin the cranks. They turn at different rates, so the port will be clear at times.

Palm collides with face yet again!

Is there oil in the gearcase, or does that need to be added?

The maintenance guide recommends "MoS2-grease" every 2k to 3k miles, but advises a few drops of bicycle oil is OK instead. They go on to warn that the seals are not designed for an oil bath so don't over-lube.