Version 2 Crystalyte Controller information

[methods]

I have a different version of the V2 board as well.
Small differences in component values from the original schematics.

[Puppyjump]

Assuming you have a very low impedance battery connection (normally a good thing), then you might be able to blow your controller by inserting an inductor in series with one of the battery leads. Make one yourself by winding about 100 turns of wire around a 3/4" diameter bolt. This will add inductance and a little more resistance in the path that will decouple your battery which should allow motor spikes to go right to your FETs and fry them. Be sure to insulate your temporary inductor connections with some nice gooey electrical tape.

[rhubarb]

Hmmm... trying to reverse my V2 but grounding the suggested DSP pad has no effect. Any suggestions?

way back on page 4 of this thread is a list of how to hook up all of the connections to the board including the reverse switch. (and everything else that needs to be hooked up)

but for those who need a picture. i have borrowed someone elses photo from this thread and circled the "DSP" pad. shorted to ground this is the reverse connection.

dsp.jpg

rick

[solarbbq2003]

try turn controller power off, then ground dsp, then power up, might do the trick, i think the regen though has a problem in these controllers, doesn't seem reliable in ones i've tried

[calinb]

My C'lyte contoller FETS fried again today. Same two FETs and It was on the same long sustained hill climb at 20 mph as last time. The controller was strapped to the front of my bike in full airflow--about 80F ambient temperature. I'm running a 5304 and Yesa "48v" pack. Maybe Knuckles can help me out with a new controller. I'm tired of repairing this C'lyte.

[getadirtbike]

Hi Guys,

I'm having a problem with my V2 controllers running 4110 FETs at around 72V and 50A.

After taking one apart I noticed that the leg of the Cap in the photo had blown off and I'm assuming that one of the FETs is shorting due to the wheel being very hard to turn. Also, the rest of the board looks totally fine... no signs of overheating at all, so I'm assuming it's a shorted FET.

I had a similar problem with a controller a while back which blew the other 2 capacitors on the board but continued to run until what I would assume was a spike also blew or shorted the FETs......... See the first few pages of this thread..... Those 2 caps appear to be fine this time.

I'm assuming the capacitor went first just by flicking through this thread, but I can't exactly work out how to stop it from happening again.... I mean... put larger capacitors in it seems obvious, but what values? Run them in series or parallel? I'm assuming that a shorter battery lead also makes a difference.

One thing to note is that in my application the wheel might leave the ground for 2-3 seconds with the throttle held on full, and then hit the ground again while still at full throttle. I know this is most likely what is doing it, but rather than change the riding technique how can I make the controller resistant to this type of abuse?

If any response could be given in laymans terms it would be much appreciated.

DSCF7167.JPG

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[fechter]

The way that one broke looks like the result of vibration and fatigue in the wire. The capacitors need to be glued to the board so they can't wiggle.

[getadirtbike]

So you think that's all it is?

It is a possibility because the bike was getting some serious air before it happened.....any tips on the quickest way to locate a blown fet?

[calinb]

Fechter's the expert but, on my board, all three leads of the blow FETs were shorted. Just ohm them out and you'll see zero resistance across any given pair of leads. Of course, that's not all that blew on my board. I'm waiting for my new controller to arrive from Knuckles.

[getadirtbike]

Ok, so Knuckles sounds like he's the man. What do his controllers have that all the others don't??

[calinb]

Ok, so Knuckles sounds like he's the man. What do his controllers have that all the others don't??

They are way cheaper than C'lyte and, hopefully, way more reliable than my C'lyte ver. 2 controller.

I think my Infineon will ship from China any day now.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5713

[fechter]

Right, blown FETs will have shorts between all the legs typically. The gate resistors blow on the V.1 controllers. You can also measure resistance between each phase wire and each power wire to locate which phase is shorted. When measuring, reverse the test probes. A shorted FET will be zero in both directions. A good one behaves like a diode and will have continuity in one direciton.

I've seen vibration cause many failures. Anything that can wiggle will, and copper doesn't like getting bent back and forth too many times. Once the cap lets go, then there's no protection for the FETs. The capacitors on the V.2 controllers have a very high failure rate even if the legs stay intact. I think they are just poor quality.

The Knuckles controllers aren't perfect either, but they have two important features:
1. a proven track record.
2. they are so cheap that if one (or two) blows up, it's still cheaper than a Crystalyte.

They also seem to have very effective self-protection features that tolerate nasty things like shorted motors.

[getadirtbike]

Are they capable of 4-5kw like I'm getting from my Crystalyte V2's at the moment?

[fechter]

Not without modification. If you replace the FETs with 4110s, it should be no problem.

You will need to ask Knuckles what the present models can handle.

They are working on a 24 FET monster version:
That should do it right out of the box

24 FET infineon.jpg (66.49 KiB) Viewed 711 times

[diver]

Not without modification. If you replace the FETs with 4110s, it should be no problem.

You will need to ask Knuckles what the present models can handle.

They are working on a 24 FET monster version:
That should do it right out of the box

24 FET infineon.jpg

Wow how sweet is that.

[getadirtbike]

Well.... I know what I want for Christmas

[ngocthach1130]

holy cow, i thought our 12 fets crystalyte was crazy, 24 fets. I hot glue those caps to my board to keep them from moving around. Since they failed so much i usually put caps with twice the rated voltage of what voltage i'm running.

[fechter]

holy cow, i thought our 12 fets crystalyte was crazy, 24 fets. I hot glue those caps to my board to keep them from moving around. Since they failed so much i usually put caps with twice the rated voltage of what voltage i'm running.

My bad,

it's ONLY 18 FETs. Imagine what you could pump through 18 4110's

[getadirtbike]

Killed another 4110 controller yesterday.... had the caps glued down so that that they couldn't move and it ran fine under heavy load at around 60A.... there were no issues at all.... until we started with the wheelies..... always with the wheelies.

From memory I was having caps blow and then that was causing the fets to go.

Appears to be the transient loading that has been discussed here earlier.

Anyone know which of the caps I need to pimp up to try and stop this from happening? There are 2 together and then the one on its own like in the photo that I posted a few days ago...... or do they all need replacing?

[solarbbq2003]

I think 60amps way to much for that board unless some heavy duty soldering put on there, and a bridge for the high amp track across the board, its only designed for 50amp max and 35amp is safe level. I think would be hard to get working reliably on 60amps. anyone got an 18 fet controller infineon controller yet? any ideas of cost?

[getadirtbike]

60A hasn't been a problem at all as far as heat etc are concerned... the last 3-4, 4110 controllers that i killed were doing wheelies... or just people flicking the throttle on and off from standstill..... doesn't appear to be related to high loading in any way....

Who exactly manufactures the Infineons anyway?

[getadirtbike]

So nobody knows where to buy one ???

[methods]

There has been a lot of talk in this thread about that subject IIRC
Search this thread for "low ESR" and you will find what you are looking for.
Values and voltages are not that critical.
This may be the odd case where bigger is actually better.

[rkosiorek]

i had similar problems of 4110 FETs blowing out. my solution to this was to add 1/4W 22R resistors in series with the gate of each of the FETs. i did it the lazy way. i just unsoldered the gate leads from the board, lifted them out of the hole and added axial lead resistors in series.

I got this tip from some International Rectifier app-note that i can't find at the moment. they recommended that parallel FETs need the gates isolated from each other when using 10R to 50R resistors. i had some 22R handy so i used them.

rick

[rkosiorek]

i finally got some time with a borrowed microscope and had a look at those SOT23 transistors used in the driver stages of the controller.

all of the ones designated Tx ("T" followed by a number) on the board are MBT8550. this is a PNP switch. i could not find them in stock anywhere. there is a replacemet from Fairchild KSA1298 that mouser stocks for about 7 cents each.

all of the ones designated Nx ("N" followed by a number) on the board are MBT8050. this is NPN compliment to the MBT8550 switch. i could not find them in stock anywhere either. there is a replacemet from Fairchild KSC3265 that mouser also stocks for about 7 cents each.

also all of the SMT capacitors designated Kx are marked as 103.

i discovered that it is much easier to read this crap when using a properly adjusted polarizing filter and about 20X magnification

rick

Fechter - maybe there should be a sub-topic that contains only the schematics and part values. it is getting tough to wade through almost 30 pages to find a little schematic segment buried somewhere in there.