Monster motor

[toolman2]

One strange thing is, why i can put out 240A at 80V, and only 130-140A at 125V? when i use more voltage usually other motor surge more amp because i move curve power more high, but this motor surge alot more amp and go more strong with less voltage

its cos the controller chops them both up (pwm) to produce about the same result (say 18kw) for the motor and fets in both cases.

and i agree it seems like the low resistance and inductance is hard on the controller, the current rise time is too short for
it to regulate smoothly, be worth seeing if kelly can help?

[esoria]

Kelly can't help because the problem is not on the controller but in the low inductance of the motor, but ok i can go at 80-85V 240A, is good enough for me, maybe in future i can try to put more amp in the motor with bigger controller for more fast acceleration, but i understand is impossible go up with the volts with this motor

[John in CR]

Kelly can't help because the problem is not on the controller but in the low inductance of the motor, but ok i can go at 80-85V 240A, is good enough for me, maybe in future i can try to put more amp in the motor with bigger controller for more fast acceleration, but i understand is impossible go up with the volts with this motor

I guess we call it a tie for now. I probably have a controller advantage with my Steveo special, and you have an advantage with the 65mm stator. Is it really a lamination stack of 65mm? If so, it must be a one turn winding. The guys playing with the ebike wind motors and big wheels have no idea what they're missing.

John

[Harold in CR]

Maybe this is what you guys need ??? 450V at 3500 Amps

shiva.jpg (37.61 KiB) Viewed 283 times

[Arlo1]

Maybe this is what you guys need ??? 450V at 3500 Amps

shiva.jpg

Unfortunatly they need brushed motors for that!

[esoria]

I guess we call it a tie for now. I probably have a controller advantage with my Steveo special, and you have an advantage with the 65mm stator. Is it really a lamination stack of 65mm? If so, it must be a one turn winding. The guys playing with the ebike wind motors and big wheels have no idea what they're missing.

John[/quote]


John, you have true, this type of motor is incredible, the power you can feel is absolute alot alot more powerful than any hub on 24" 26" ecc rim...
Is like a jet, when start to spin you can feel crazy fast acceleration, and no esitation at all...
With my Cromotor, very fast and powerful hub, i think the most powerful i have used in a 24" rim, at 100kmh or more you feel the sensation of the "stress"of the motor for go more fast...
With hubscooter at 100kmh i have 40 more km for make strong acceleration!!!
I suppose is a 65mm stator and one turn wind, the motor stay cool after 16amper of energy burn, at full throttle, uphill, downhill, flat...incredible
The only big problem is, i feel i use the power of this motor maybe at 50% now, but i need a supercontroller for stress this motor!!!!

[John in CR]

The only big problem is, i feel i use the power of this motor maybe at 50% now, but i need a supercontroller for stress this motor!!!!

Yep. The controllers are the limitation, and there's no way I'm paying over $1000 for a controller that the motor is likely to pop if I turn it up too high. I may have a source soon for some high power, but economical sine wave controllers that don't have a problem with the low inductance. I'll let you know if it works out.

John

[esoria]

Please john when you find good strong controller for this type of motor call me!!!!
Thanks very much!

[Matthijs]

Any updates?

[Doctorbass]

I just hope that our KHB14601 combined with the dual Enertrac DU602 will work well on the road!

we tested it with a dummy 1.1Ah 120V A123 pack and got interesting results for the no load.

Doc



Doc

[liveforphysics]

1000w of no-load??? 1000w of waste heat just to make it spin with no power output? Do you perhaps have hall timing off or something?

[Doctorbass]

1000w of no-load??? 1000w of waste heat just to make it spin with no power output? Do you perhaps have hall timing off or something?

not 100% sure but i think this is normal..yes... normal..

think about it: This motor is the equivalent to 4 x 5302 hub motor ( similar base desing etc. it run at nearly 150km/h no load.

All my motor at 100km/h+ draw around 250-300W no load.

I remember my 5302 at 160kmh was drawing like 715Watts... but on the road it was pretty efficient for an X5... at 715W on the road i was runing at around 55km/h my (94.3kmh ebike with fairing)

here is the video: ( 5302 on 20" wheel and infineon modified controller)



I ever heard and i dont fully understand why but a hub motor on no load is more resistive than during the on load operation since there is nearly no work or output power and the BEMF is very close to the battery voltage.

A motorcycle rim is also offering more surface for the air friction than a bicycle wheel. put all these facts and i guess it might explain why that 1000W no load at 150kmh...


Any idea?

[Lebowski]

400A phase is roughly 280 A battery current. 180-190 would probably be roughly 260 A phase current average.
Maybe your motor is very low inductance, combined with low PWM frequency the peak during PWM can go to 400A ?

[John in CR]

Need to balance it motor only and then again with a tire. The no load sounds right, but with dual stators why isn't it run with 2 controllers?

John

[John in CR]

Also, you'll need more controller for real performance. I'm sure that beast is going on a heavy pig compared to my bike, which did this on today's grocery run. With my low 405A phase current limit setting it doesn't hit peak battery current until about 30mph, so it's a real 30hp going in, not just a blip on takeoff. Wanna race? (keep in mind I have a 110lb rider in training)

CA at 320A 405A.JPG (45.08 KiB) Viewed 103 times

[esoria]

Boys i have found a friend with a Kelly KHB 700A phase 90V...
I hope we can try this controller in the next week, maybe we can feel more power than kelly 400A from this beast of motor

[esoria]

Some news..
Today i try kelly khb 90v 700a phase from a friend, with this beast of controller and with 20s 16a nano cells, motor go mooore strong and controller never cut out power
But i see strange thing, i expect to see from 700a motor controller alot more amp from battery side, but i see only 140\150 on cycle analyst???
Motor have 6awg wire,very big, but now start become hot,with 700a controller...
But how is possible look only 140a battery surge?

[Doctorbass]

Some news..
Today i try kelly khb 90v 700a phase from a friend, with this beast of controller and with 20s 16a nano cells, motor go mooore strong and controller never cut out power
But i see strange thing, i expect to see from 700a motor controller alot more amp from battery side, but i see only 140\150 on cycle analyst???
Motor have 6awg wire,very big, but now start become hot,with 700a controller...
But how is possible look only 140a battery surge?

Are you 100% sure your C-A is well calibrated?

Back in 2009 I saw my 5302 with dual gauge 12 teflon wire becoming hot with 290A phase current with Fluke 4 wire kelvin sensing method for calibrating the shunt.

130A batt current and 290A phase current... with a 18 fets controller ( extreme Doc mod version as well

Doc

[esoria]

Yes Doc, my ca is calibrated, the strange things of this motor is, at low speed, or from standstill, the power is not very impressive for a big motor like this, and drawing from battery is low too, but after 60kmh, start to pull very much and strong and AMP from battery goes up, i think this motor surge alot more from 50-60kmh, and very little from stop...
i don't know why, someone have a technical explain for this?I imagine motor surge alot more from standstill...