Frame mount battery packs: Lectric Cycles vs. Cell Man

I have one of these snazzy frame mount 36 volt battery packs that I purchased from Lectric Cycles, along with a Bafang BBS01 350W/36V motor kit:

http://lectriccycles.com/products/36v-downtube-mounted-battery

I'm contemplating purchasing another battery pack, in order to increase my range. I notice that Cell Man is selling what appears to be the identical frame pack:

http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=35&product_id=160

However, Cell_Man's packs are listed at slightly different capacities for similar sizes (10.25 AH for Cell_Man vs 11 AH for Lectric Cycles). Plus, Cell_Man offers a larger capacity pack than does Lectric Cycles (16.5 AH vs 14.5AH).

Any idea what the differences are between these two vendors? Are they using difference battery technology? Different published ratings? Any recommendations between the two?

Russ

The case is a standard part that anybody can buy. The difference between batteries is what you put inside the case. There's hundreds of different types of 18650 cells that you can fit in there. Each type of cell has a different capacity and discharge capability. When you buy a battery, you need to know exactly which cells you've got, because it can make a big difference. IIRC those cases can take 50 cells, although you have the option to fit only 40, which has a proportionate effect on capacity.

Well, as far as I'm concerned, EM3ev is a respected and trusted vendor here. He is not perfect, and shit can happen with any order. But in large, he's a stellar vendor far above the rest that mail from china. He always strives to use the best battery cells he can get his hands on.

I've never heard of lectric cycles, so I have no clue how they do business. They could be just as good, but I simply do not know.

I did a little poking around, and it looks like Lectric Cycles uses 22P cells, while EM3ev uses both 22P cells, as well as 29E cells in his larger capacity packs. He mentions in the web description that his published capacities are slightly less than max, in line with maximum cycle life, so I guess that's the reason for the slightly different capacity numbers.

dogman said:

Well, as far as I'm concerned, EM3ev is a respected and trusted vendor here. He is not perfect, and shit can happen with any order. But in large, he's a stellar vendor far above the rest that mail from china. He always strives to use the best battery cells he can get his hands on.

I've never heard of lectric cycles, so I have no clue how they do business. They could be just as good, but I simply do not know.

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I'd echo that. There are lots of fly-by-night operations selling batteries and parts, but cell_man has been here for a long time and done well by us.

-JD

The battery is not just the case and cells - there's the charger, BMS, welding the tabs, and packaging for the cell bundle. EM3EV has been building batteries for years and the product is very well made. The packaging is excellent with protective panels and thick shrink to give structural rigidity. Their BMSes are trouble-free. EM3EV chargers for these types of batteries have a charging level switch so you can trade off life for capacity as you see fit.

It looks like Lectric Bikes is primarily a bike house and buys components to assemble so it's unclear exactly who assembled the packs. I don't want to dis these guys - there's just a few unknowns.

In my experience, EM3EV has great support and stands behind products 100%. The only (small) downside is that Paul batches his emails once a day so, response is not brisk - but it is always thorough and helpful. EM3EV is my first choice.

Well I guess its better to hear it from the horses mouth, so here it goes. Lectric Cycles is located in Tempe, AZ so we are a US based business and have a warehouse and office space/showroom you can come visit. We have formally been in business since Sep 2012. We have our batteries assembled in China as is common in this industry and have worked with our motor and battery suppliers for several years. We also supply our products to various dealers and some smaller manufacturers. Our Downtube mounted cases are similar to those offered by other vendors but as was said before...it's what's inside that counts.

We use Samsung ICR18650-22P cells for our 36v 11ah and 48v 9ah capacity batteries. For our higher capacity batteries that come in 36v 14.5ah and 48v 11.6ah configurations, we use the Panasonic NCR1850PF cells. These are more expensive but also much better batteries than the Samsung 29e cells. We initially tested our packs with Samsung 29e batteries and were not satisfied with the performance. The 29e cells never delivered their rated capacity and exhibited much more voltage sag vs the Panasonic batteries at only 1.5C-2C loads. Although we like to save money like anyone else, we opted to use the Panasonic cells that offer much better performance and deliver their rated capacity.

The cells are an important component, but the BMS board is equally as important. We don't use the ready made BMS boards available (as other vendors do) but had a high rate BMS board manufactured specifically for this battery case. It can support 30amps+ of continuous current and much higher peaks. Although the run of the mill BMS boards that are used in other batteries will do the job for a time, they are prone to failure when pushed consistently beyond the 15a continuous current most of them were designed for. This has been our experience with using standard BMS boards which is why spec'd our new batteries with a custom board. The batteries we carry were designed specifically to pair with the Bafang BBS01 and BBS02 mid drive motors.

As a US based company, we also have to answer for all the products we sell. We carry product liability insurance for our products as a manufacturer and warranty our batteries and motors for 1 year from date of purchase. We carry spare parts and have the capability to service our products as well. We are passionate about e-bikes and strive to bring quality products to market and provide top notch service to our customers.

www.lectriccycles.com

for the record - I had very good communication and supply from Lectric Cycles, all the way down here in Oz....

Another for the record...
I've purchased from both EM3ev and LectricCycles.
Received quality gear and top-notch service from each of them.
I'd buy from either again in the future with zero worry.

Lectriccycles doesn't have any stock on 36v 350w or a range of batteries. I was left with EM3ev as the most reliable choice. I'm looking forward to hearing there is a USA stock and source for parts. Good luck Lectriccycles in getting up to speed. We need a USA vendor too!

I was recently shopping for a battery, and while I did not go for Icrewse, I did purchase from a US vendor.

Be warned that ANY vendor based over seas will have longer ship times. When it comes to trouble shooting or diagnosing a pack that may have an issue, it becomes exponentially more challenging on both ends to resolve the issue.

Trying to do so via email over the course of 4-5 months, even with a trusted overseas vendor is not beyond the realm of possibility.

Personally, for me its not worth saving a hundred bucks or so if it means a problem can be remedied with minimal downtime..


Len

I'm kind of surprised nobody mention the slowwwww recharge rate of those new watter bottle mount batteries ?
2A for a 12 AH pack must take what, 8 hours to charge ?

There was no option on the charger. I tried.

I'm a NEWB with 3 weeks to make a decision on 48v battery for bbs02.

Embarassed to admit I'm avoiding triangle packs because I can't stand the look of them.

$825 Lectric Cycles AllCell HE-4813 13AH, 25A continuous 40A peak. (From Lectric Cycles)
http://lectriccycles.com/products/48v-lithium-allcell-battery



$550 Em3ev Samsung 14AH
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=35&product_id=128


I'd be willing to get a fire-hazard lipo alternative if there was an off-the-shelf version available from a reputable dealer.

I understand the claimed discharge ratings may have little connection to reality so I'm at the mercy of the forum to guide me in comparing these.

Was extremely impressed with Lectric answering bbs02 questions over the phone a couple times.
Would be willing to pay a major premium to deal with them but I admit the price difference gives me pause.
I understand the higher costs of doing business in America.

I also will be buying BBS02. ($750 from lectric, $500 from em3ev). I could order motor from one and battery from other.

Usage: Mostly pedal assist, but would like discharge of 25A for short bursts.
Willing to pay much more than alternatives for small size and weight.

Zippy Hawaiian said:

Embarassed to admit I'm avoiding triangle packs because I can't stand the look of them.

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I'm not sure which alternative you think looks better; the fugly bags or the rear mounted rack batteries that throw off your center of gravity ? :wink:

+1 for Lectriccycles.com
LeGrand was the guy who prompted Bafang to develop the 750W BBS02 for the US market. I bought mine from him.
Read spinningmagnets article here.
http://www.electricbike.com/bafang-bbso2-750w-mid-drive/

EM3ev shipped battery I received tracking on Monday, Battery in Heipei CN, received battery on Thursday. Fantastic!

tomjasz said:

... received tracking on Monday, Battery in Heipei CN, received battery on Thursday...

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We live in an amazing world, where such a thing is possible.

DHL just called, the motor that shipped a day later will be here tomorrow! WHA? To cool!!

tomjasz said:

Lectriccycles doesn't have any stock on 36v 350w or a range of batteries. I was left with EM3ev as the most reliable choice. I'm looking forward to hearing there is a USA stock and source for parts. Good luck Lectriccycles in getting up to speed. We need a USA vendor too!

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Thanks LaGrand for an easy and pleasant purchase. My motor is already being tracked after one day. BTW for USA residents the pricing is very competitive. Shipping with 73MM parts is very convenient. The Lovely can't wait to have her bike rolling with the new kit.

LeGrand and Lectric Cycles may be a small outfit but their service and quality is world class. I bought a Chubby 750 (a complete fat bike) from them with an uprated Panasonic battery, a custom rear rack and additional battery giving 2 48v batteries, mid mounted Bafang 750W and the Nuvinci hub. LeGrand promised me the bike by Friday but when he was let down on one of the custom parts he put the bike in the back of his truck on Friday morning and drove it to my home in Denver from AZ. He is always available for questions or service. I would not even think about going elsewhere.

I made a purchase and paid a premium buying from a USA supplier in hopes of more proactive responses. So far it's quicker than the competition, but the battery isn't here yet and I am waiting for a response on connectore. All pre purchase contacts were timely. It is clear they are not a source, nor do they represent themselves to be a source, of support to the general community. Nor are they a source for parts. Not a negative just my most recent observations.


BTW Two vendors, two different power plugs.