Infineon XC846 72V 45 Amp Controller

[mikereidis]

I can't find Infineon data on an XC846, but there are some google hits. OEM perhaps ?

I see the PPT mentions an XC866 also, perhaps an upgrade ?

Has 8051, PWM and ADC and seems to be intended for motor control. Nice.


"XC846/XC866 SCM integrates dedicated motor control unit (CCU6), no additional hardware and software can be realized only less synchronous rectification."

Or perhaps the XC846 has "less synchronous rectification." ?


Here's an app note for Brushless controller with Hall Sensors: http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/AP0802610_ ... 0c61bd0b0f



http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/ ... 0867&tab=2

The XC866 family members are based on the standard 8051 architecture with on-chip flash memory of 4 kBytes, 8 kBytes or 16 kBytes. Performance and cost-saving features of the XC866 include a 26.67MHz system frequency, an on-chip os-cillator and PLL for clock generation and an embedded voltage regulator supporting single voltage supply of 3.3V or 5.0V.
ADDITIONAL KEY FEATURES include support for LIN (Local Interconnected Network), an enhanced CAPCOM6E unit for flexible PWM generation and a new 10-Bit ADC with extended functionality (e.g. comparator mode).
THE XC866 with its rich peripheral set offers an optimized fit to a wide range of different applications in the industrial and automotive sector.
THE NEW XC866 HOT microcontrollers exceed today’s maximum temperature peak of +85°C for industrial applications and of +125°C usual in automotive applications. This makes the XC866 HOT microcontrollers ideal for use in high-temperature designs where they can be applied directly into the application making pricey heat dissipation mechanisms and complex cooling systems obsolete and, thus, reducing overall system cost.



BTW, http://www.sletech.com/
E-mail
vincent@sletech.com

On this page there's a picture of a cool looking e-scooter: http://www.sletech.com/project.htm Can anyone identify the e-scooter ?

I think that "RKE" is "Remote Keyless Entry". RKE RX is receiver of course, 15 ma drain ? RKE TX is transmitter, or key fob.

Hmmm, is this a theft prevention add-on ? That's what E-Bikes need ! I presume it's button activated, and not the cooler, but more trouble-prone system that only requires key fob proximity...

Slide 3: TPMS/RKE

TPMS = Tire Pressure Monitoring System http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_press ... ing_system

Almost seems like they're targetting small electric cars, although perhaps showing a few pictures of Infineon evaluation boards is more a dream of futures, rather than something serious today.

500 watts and 27 amps are the beefiest specs I see on the PPT. Don't know what the "6" and "9" are...

[mikereidis]

Does this help answering the question about maximum RPM supported ?:

Timer T12: 16-bit resolution, maximum count frequency = peripheral clock frequency
Timer T13: 16-bit resolution, maximum count frequency = peripheral clock frequency

From pg 270:
http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/XC866_um_v ... 1988e7289e


XC866
Capture/Compare Unit 6
User’s Manual 12-1 V 1.3, 2007-02
CCU6, V 1.0

12 Capture/Compare Unit 6

The Capture/Compare Unit 6 (CCU6) provides two independent timers (T12, T13), which
can be used for Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) generation, especially for AC-motor
control. The CCU6 also supports special control modes for block commutation and
multi-phase machines. The block diagram of the CCU6 module is shown in Figure 12-1.
The timer T12 can function in capture and/or compare mode for its three channels. The
timer T13 can work in compare mode only.

The multi-channel control unit generates output patterns, which can be modulated by
T12 and/or T13. The modulation sources can be selected and combined for the signal
modulation.

Timer T12 Features:
• Three capture/compare channels, each channel can be used either as a capture or as
a compare channel
• Supports generation of a three-phase PWM (six outputs, individual signals for
highside and lowside switches)
• 16-bit resolution, maximum count frequency = peripheral clock frequency
• Dead-time control for each channel to avoid short-circuits in the power stage
• Concurrent update of the required T12/13 registers
• Generation of center-aligned and edge-aligned PWM
• Supports single-shot mode
• Supports many interrupt request sources
• Hysteresis-like control mode

Timer T13 Features:
• One independent compare channel with one output
• 16-bit resolution, maximum count frequency = peripheral clock frequency
• Can be synchronized to T12
• Interrupt generation at period-match and compare-match
• Supports single-shot mode

Additional Features:
• Implements block commutation for Brushless DC-drives
• Position detection via Hall-sensor pattern
• Automatic rotational speed measurement for block commutation
• Integrated error handling
• Fast emergency stop without CPU load via external signal (CTRAP)
• Control modes for multi-channel AC-drives
• Output levels can be selected and adapted to the power stage


....

[ZapPat]

I've been reading infinion's app notes and datasheets concerning their motor control microcontroller family (like the XC846/XC886), and they do seem to have good hardware features for 3 phase brushless control (much better than the low end PIC used on the older crazyman controller). BUT... If you compare their documents to others like microchip's, you will have more trouble understanding what they are trying to get across. Infinion's docs have a "translated" feel to them, although they are translated quite well. Still when it comes to complex technical things, I don't want language ambiguities added to my challenges.

Also from what I've read about the infinion micro, there would be no problem in implementing regen with it by hacking or rewriting the code. If of course the hardware ON the PCB would be OK for this (not known yet). I am about to order one, so I'll let people know about this...

[Knuckles]

Dude ... You are awesome! Hack away! Real regen is the next last step!

[biketrials]

have you guys seen the august 2007 edition of circuit cellar magazine? has an article on making an ebike with all the usual plus torque sensor, regen and supercaps using a dsPIC.
code is here:
ftp://ftp.circuitcellar.com/pub/Circuit_Cellar/2007/205
Buchanan-205.zip

[ZapPat]

have you guys seen the august 2007 edition of circuit cellar magazine? has an article on making an ebike with all the usual plus torque sensor, regen and supercaps using a dsPIC.
code is here:
ftp://ftp.circuitcellar.com/pub/Circuit_Cellar/2007/205
Buchanan-205.zip

Interesting, but does anyone have the PDF of the circuit cellar article to go with this?

I could buy the PDF, but it kinda goes against my principals even if it is only a buck and a half... If no one has it, I'll probably buy it in a few days, out of curiosity (and post it here of course). It is based on a microchip app note, but looks to have extra features added in.

[biketrials]

have you guys seen the august 2007 edition of circuit cellar magazine? has an article on making an ebike with all the usual plus torque sensor, regen and supercaps using a dsPIC.
code is here:
ftp://ftp.circuitcellar.com/pub/Circuit_Cellar/2007/205
Buchanan-205.zip

Interesting, but does anyone have the PDF of the circuit cellar article to go with this?

I could buy the PDF, but it kinda goes against my principals even if it is only a buck and a half... If no one has it, I'll probably buy it in a few days, out of curiosity (and post it here of course). It is based on a microchip app note, but looks to have extra features added in.

hold on a bit there.....
PS. i warn you it's not the most polished design, more like a development project.. sounds familiar

[mikereidis]

Also from what I've read about the infinion micro, there would be no problem in implementing regen with it by hacking or rewriting the code. If of course the hardware ON the PCB would be OK for this (not known yet). I am about to order one, so I'll let people know about this...

I couldn't find any info on regen in the Infineon docs. Did you ?

I saw something about CTRAP which is an emergency stop initiated by a hardware line. My first thought was this was electric braking, but I think now it just stops the PWM and isolates the FETs. This could be used in conjunction with regen, but I'm not aware of any regen circuitry on the board yet.

My impression with the Infineon is that if the MCU code crashed or hung, the PWM would continue at the last throttle setting. Could be bad for full throttle. Watchdog timer could fix that if the code implements that.

OTOH, the ecrazyman controller I guess would stop PWMing if the code stopped. IE the RPM limit is a code efficiency limit. The Infineon, OTOH, is more limited by the hardware and frequency input. Software could change the pre-scaler though.

Anyway, Infineon seems superior architecture for PWM 3 phase BLDC controller. Hope the code and other hardware are decent.

[ZapPat]

No Mike, I didn't see anything in their datasheet and app notes specificaly about regen, but I wouldn't expect it. You could go by any other docs about this, since the PWM hardware on these infinons seems almost the same as the 18F motor control PICs, and I would guess a few other micros too.

One problem is reading negative current sensing through the shunt, which I'm pretty sure this board will not be set up for. Also overvoltage protection may or may not be there.

A number of changes would have to be made to the software, or just re-write the code from zero. Personnaly, I will stick with microchip PICs, mostly because their documents are much clearer I think. And because I don't want to learn a new micro again for now. Maybe I'll make a mini adaptor board to convert a PIC's pinout to the infinion's, but only if this board proves to be worth it otherwise... I guess I'll know if it's possible to add regen (and worth it) when I get my controller in about a week.

[mikereidis]

Maybe I'll make a mini adaptor board to convert a PIC's pinout to the infinion's, but only if this board proves to be worth it otherwise... I guess I'll know if it's possible to add regen (and worth it) when I get my controller in about a week.

Adapter board and PIC sounds like a lot of work. Do you have a PIC with hardware PWM or would you do that in software ?

I'm interested in e-braking, but unless I found a controller that does really good variable regen, I'd be more inclined to build a "variable e-brake add-on controller", that just dumps the power to a power resistor or light bulb. Perhaps a red brake bulb under my seat would provide a bit of heat in cooler weather, relocated farther back in summer.

This "variable e-brake add-on controller" would connect to the three phase wires in parallel with the controller. If engaged it must first disable the controller, perhaps through CTRAP or V-Brake signals or any other way to ensure speed controller won't put voltage on the motor.

I read something about an idea to use a brushed DC controller for variable e-braking. I'm not sure how well that would work with AC from motor, instead of DC. Also, would need 3 brushed controllers for all 3 phases. A single controller, would be "ghetto" I presume and the e-braking would pulse and not be smooth.

It seems like a waste though, just ignoring the existing nice 3 phase PWM high-amp and voltage circuitry on the speed controller. Would be ideal if same controller can be used for e-braking.

[ZapPat]

Maybe I'll make a mini adaptor board to convert a PIC's pinout to the infinion's, but only if this board proves to be worth it otherwise... I guess I'll know if it's possible to add regen (and worth it) when I get my controller in about a week.

Adapter board and PIC sounds like a lot of work. Do you have a PIC with hardware PWM or would you do that in software ?

I'm interested in e-braking, but unless I found a controller that does really good variable regen, I'd be more inclined to build a "variable e-brake add-on controller", that just dumps the power to a power resistor or light bulb. Perhaps a red brake bulb under my seat would provide a bit of heat in cooler weather, relocated farther back in summer.

This "variable e-brake add-on controller" would connect to the three phase wires in parallel with the controller. If engaged it must first disable the controller, perhaps through CTRAP or V-Brake signals or any other way to ensure speed controller won't put voltage on the motor.

I read something about an idea to use a brushed DC controller for variable e-braking. I'm not sure how well that would work with AC from motor, instead of DC. Also, would need 3 brushed controllers for all 3 phases. A single controller, would be "ghetto" I presume and the e-braking would pulse and not be smooth.

It seems like a waste though, just ignoring the existing nice 3 phase PWM high-amp and voltage circuitry on the speed controller. Would be ideal if same controller can be used for e-braking.

Check out the PIC18F2331/2431/4331/4431(All the same hardware, just different program memory and RAM. This PIC has VERY similar hardware as the infinion XC846/XC866. The pinout is different though, which lead to my idea of the mini adaptor board possibility.

As for the electric brake idea, I only see this being usefull on a [well designed] regen controller when the batteries are already close to full charge and would not accept more energy quickly. Of course having a warm toosh in cold weather does sound interesting, but maybe it would be better to heat up your handlebar grips instead, since fingers freeze faster than behinds...

[solarbbq2003]

pic of circuit board might be useful for someone

[solarbbq2003]

whooops forgot to attach

xiechang board.jpg (97.96 KiB) Viewed 2999 times

[solarbbq2003]

cant help but notice the similarities to the v2 crystalyte ( refly ) board, been a bit of copying going on i think, now who copied who

[ZapPat]

cant help but notice the similarities to the v2 crystalyte ( refly ) board, been a bit of copying going on i think, now who copied who

Hummmm, nice photo, solarbbq! But it's very very fuzzy - could you get/take a better one? This does look almost exactly like knuckle's infinion controller. Is it a photo of a controller that you sell, or a crystalyte v2 board?

I'm sure there's lots of design "copying" going on, but it's also hard to even know who actually makes any one controller, and which ones are just buying and reselling ones as their own product... we just love confusion in our "modern" economy!

[Knuckles]

Keywin just purchased the mold for this pcb! He would freak with this post! In a good way.

So maybe we continue with ES design and build effort here. I am in! I'll advise Keywin ASAP and we can all get some real JUICE flowing!

This is the coolest engineering effort I've ever been part of. Kudos to all you way-advanced PWM geeks!

Man I don't know sh*t! I am blown away by this knowledge base!

Your Humble Servant,
Knuckles

[mikereidis]

Keywin just purchased the mold for this pcb! He would freak with this post! In a good way.

So maybe we continue with ES design and build effort here. I am in! I'll advise Keywin ASAP and we can all get some real JUICE flowing!

This is the coolest engineering effort I've ever been part of. Kudos to all you way-advanced PWM geeks!

Man I don't know sh*t! I am blown away by this knowledge base!

Your Humble Servant,
Knuckles

Wonderful. Can anyone get schematics, code, or at least higher resolution photos of the circuit board ? Would be nice to have pics of both sides, both populated and un-populated. Highest resolution, lowest compression possible...

Or just send me a board or two...

[Knuckles]

Or just send me a board or two...

Ha Ha I want the same thing. I'll get some blanks and also some raw populated boards missing fets and power resistors too.

K

[solarbbq2003]

I dont have any of the boards was just a pic I had and best resolution, I haven't bought any of the boards

[ZapPat]

I dont have any of the boards was just a pic I had and best resolution, I haven't bought any of the boards

Whose board / design is it, anyways, solarbbq?

[gip_mad]

Hi guys, I'm back! Knuckles, do you have any info about the serial port? I have a lot of good ideas (and now a good amount of spare time ) for this project!

[Knuckles]

Hi guys, I'm back! Knuckles, do you have any info about the serial port? I have a lot of good ideas (and now a good amount of spare time ) for this project!

That will be added in good time.

[geoff57]

anyone got the colour code for the throttle.
Gnd
Sensor/wiper
+5v approx

Can a hall or a resistor throttle be used
What is the travel to full speed x'tlytes reach full speed at 3/4

[gip_mad]

Cool! But do you have any specs? To start, I can just solder a wire on the chip... No problem! Or just use the already available 60/120° switch wire! Do you want me to develop the Analyst, or will they do it? I would like it to be open source (at least the communication protocol)...

[recumbent]

Would this controller change the switching frequency of a 48volt, 400 series Clyte hub motor?
I realize you guys are talking about using it for a geared hub, but the 406 motor I have works great except it hits a frequency vibration everytime i accelerate and sort-of shakes the bike as it passes through this stage.

It' sure is great to see controlers and batteries advancing every 6 months.