Motor Runs With No Throttle After CA Install

StevenR

100 W
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
175
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
I installed my Cycle Analyst to my Crystalyte CT4840 V2 controller per the instructions on the Version 2 Crystalyte Controller information topic. I interpreted that thread as follows:

Red To the outer pole of the switch that connects to "L" for Battery +
Black Minus leg of C1 to pickup Battery -
White Shunt North (End closest to the MOSFETS)
Blue Shunt South (End away from the MOSFETS)
Yellow HM pad
Green XS+ pad

I turned on the controller switch and the CA lit up and all was well until it came off the splash screen then the bike took off. Major crash in the workshop and the driven front wheel threw a big adjustable wrench into my bare big toe. I turned off the switch and examined the big bruise then put the bike on the centerstand to get the front wheel off the ground and turned it on again. Same deal but less drama. The Phoenix Racer 5303 spun up to 25 MPH on my Cateye spedo. When I pulled the rear brake the motor stopped and the CA indicated regen. I cycled power again and put the CA into setup mode and the wheel didn't spin until I went out of Setup then it took off again. It indicates watts or, after I changed the setting, amps, and the totals spin up but no speed is displayed. I just got the CA from oatnet and it looks to be brand new - I think it still has factory default settings. I will document what they are in another post shortly but meanwhile a few questions:

Does the wiring above look right? Any obvious screwups?

Could it be a setting? That it seems fine until the CA comes out of the splash screen or when it is in setup seems interesting. Any ideas on something to reset?

What is the nominal shunt resistance for this controller? I think I saw it out there somewhere but I want to get the settings off the CA first.

I checked the settings on the CA and they are as follows (note that it did the same thing before and after I made changes noted below):

Set Units: MI (changed from km)
Wheel 2070 (changed from 2075)
Speed Limit 99 MPH
Amp Limit 040A
Low Volt Limit 19V
Main Display Watts
Set Range Low (.01A)
Averaging 5
Set RShunt 1.000 mOHM
Zero Amps I held the button until it said OK
Volt Sense 21.06
# Poles 8
PS Gain 0.08 V/MPH
INT SGAIN 200
PA GAIN 0.05 V/A
INT GAIN 300
PV GAIN 0.38 V/V
I TERM MIN 0.49V (I changed to 0.00 with no effect)
MAX THROTTLE 4.98 V
Set Ratio 0.1043 LG/HG

I verified it's the CA - If I pull the CA connector it does not run until the throttle is pulled. Note: There is NO MPH displayed on the CA.
 
Sounds like the CA is possessed by evil spirits!

Bummer about the toe!
 
Evil Spirits! Again? RATS!
 
I pulled the yellow and green wires off the board and the motor doesn't run with no throttle. I should have left the yellow on - I think the green (throttle override) on XS+ is the culprit but the yellow (hall signal) wasn't doing anything. I guess any ideas on where these should go is appreciated. All other functions seem to work. I took a 4.96 mile ride and saw about 2400 watts max. Used 3.691 AH net; 3.7904 AH forward, 0.0979 AH regen (2.6%). 67.59A max, 23.8 max regen. 176.56 W-hr for 4.96 miles yields 35.66 W-hr/mi - it was a pretty inefficient ride with lots of fooling around and few long, steady cruises. All these figures seem about right so the shunt resistance is probably about right. I'll compare the AH to the wattsup readings from the charger...
 
StevenR said:
Green XS+ pad

Does the wiring above look right? Any obvious screwups?

As mentioned in an email, you need a diode in the circuit whenever you have the CycleAnalyst tapping into a controller throttle signal. By default the CA is outputting 5V or thereabouts (actual value depends on ITermMax and other settings) when it is running until one of the limit values is exceeded. If this signal is going straight to the throttle line of the controller, then naturally it will take off the moment the CA becomes operational after the splash screen.

I don't have the details handy but we had Crystalyte put a SMT diode somewhere on the PCB in series with the pad that is accessed by XS+, while it sounds like the controller you got form Electric Rider doesn't have this. Study the trace back from the pad, I think you'll find a resistor in series with XS+ and the actual throttle signal that goes to the microchip. Either short this with a jumper and install a leaded diode inline with the green wire, or remove it entirely and replace it with a surface mount diode. The negative side of which should be facing the CA board.

Justin

(And yes, sometimes we put little daemons in the box too)
 
Justin,

Client support while crossing a continent?

You are awesome dude!

btw ... my Infineon controllers kick ass ...

4 U I am happy to share. Keywin and I welcome you to the new era!

Toa F'n Chie

(Ghosts in the Machine)
 
Awesome support! Most places can't get back to you when they are sitting in their office, much less riding across a continent! I have to say I was suprised and honored when the great Justin actually replied to my email to info@ebikes.ca!

I should have seen that diagram with the diode and will stop by Radio Shack an pick some up (I have lots of resistors, pots and caps in my parts box but oddly, no diodes - a situation I'll have to "rectify"). I assume any old diode will work.

The question still remains why I'm not getting speed indication. Is there something else I need to do other than connect to the HM pad? Actually the throttle override is of less concern than speed indication - the throttle limit only slows you down and if I get speed indication I can take the Cateye spedo off the bars (they are getting pretty full)...
 
StevenR said:
The question still remains why I'm not getting speed indication. Is there something else I need to do other than connect to the HM pad?
The details on this I don't have on hand either, but basically you need to find a pad that toggles between 0V and 5V as the wheel is rotated. Check with a multimeter and see if this is the case or not with the HM pad. If not, then you can tap into the speed signal from the hall sensor line directly, which is easy enough to find.

Justin
 
"install the diode on the green wire....." ?
I installed mine on the new wire soldered to the Th pad. I thought that was the correct interpretation of the little schematic but I'm experiencing the same run-a-way full throttle condition in this thread.
Although, my low volt signal wire on the WE cable is white and the others, traditional red/black. 95% of this stuff is over my head and I pick up little bits and pieces of info that lead to trial and 95% errors ! :roll:
 
Did you install the diode with the stripe on the CA side of the wire?
If so, the only way that voltage could get through is if:

1- The diode is shorted (unlikely)
2 - It is the wrong type of diode (any "normal" diode would work so unlikely)
3 - It is not a diode (lol... dont laugh, I have done it :oops: )
4 - It is in backwards (likely)
5 - The problem is coming from somewhere else on the board (ruled out)

Use the diode check function on your multimeter to determine the correct polarity.

Keep updating this thread as I am interested in your results.

-methods

EDIT: P.S. Check this thread:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3896&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=fechter+cycleanalyst&start=45

Possibly helpful information
 
i was wondering if those new CA would somehow avoid this problem so no diode installation is necessary?
 
I connected brand new CA3 with inbuit solution and it works with no problem :)
 
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