E-bike general and technical questions for start-up

I will begin with a bit of my back story. I've been living in a small town the better part of my life where there's just 40k+ people living. I have always considered myself driven and had a bunch of different jobs but I always wanted to start something of my own.

Now I got an idea where I plan to make regular bikes into e-bikes, since I feel there is a need for it around here. There's a lot of long commutes and most of the town lives outside of the city. but I had some questions to begin with:

1. Is it possible to make any bike into an e-bike?
2. I find a lot of different setups but what setup is the most durable and cost efficient one?
3. Is there any brand that offers cheap and lasting set-ups? Maybe one that does so for different bike sizes?

I'm still working on the business model but I'd be really glad to hear anything you guys have to add, all comments, pointers and critique you got would be really appreciated. If it's something you think I haven't thought about then please let me know

If you have money you can just import finished products. Prices are roughly about 500 dollar for each bike. + 10-20% of total cost in shipping if shipped in container.

You need experience to know whats best and you don't have that yet so get someone in your neighbourhood and team together or get the experience first hand - will take a year or two.

To be profitable you need to have lot of cash and buy import a finished product OR sell for cirka 1200 dollar each own made ebike.

I'm not going to address your 3 questions because they are subjective and you will get a different answer from from every ëxpert" here."

The real question is, can you make a living doing this, and I think the answer to that, is probably not.

Here's a few things to consider";

To achieve any sort of profit margin, you will need to be able to buy bikes, motor kits, batteries, etc. at a deep discount, so I guess that would be Alibaba.
Do you have the money to buy quantities? Would you be comfortable buying from them? Are you willing to spend big $$$ on inventory only to find that things don't work out and you will be stuck with a basement of Ebike parts?

How would you market the finished product? Brick and mortor store or Craigslist?
Both are problematic. For a store, beside rent and utilities, you will need a city business license and have to pay whatever way the city can get money out of you. Possibly insurance of some sort too.
How will your neighboors feel about your storing Lithium batteries.
Will you advertise? Advertising is very expensive.

Concerning Craigslist, well, here we would have to talk about human nature a bit.
You sound young, but at any age, one never knows the buying public until you are selling something.
In a nutshell, people will waste your time. Oh, they will öoh and aah" and tell you how neat the bike is, but when it comes time to reach into the back pocket, well....
They will try and talk you down in price. They will want to horse trade. And do you want a continuing stream of people coming to your house(or your folk's house)?
Will you offer a warrenty? people will expect it and more than a few will take that to mean that you will fix it free forever.

A town of 40K may sound like a lot of people, but I live in a city of a million, and I have seen maybe three Ebikes in the last year and those were ready built.
And speaking of ready built, how many people will look at your bikes, then go order something on-line? More than a few, I would wager.

It's not my intent to "rain on your parade", but I'm speaking from experience. Like you, I wanted to go it alone doing something that I loved. So, in 1983 I opened a motor scooter shop. At that time, little Japanese scooters were all the rage. I couldn't get a dealer's license because the bond was more than I could scrape together, so I did repairs and accessories. My customers were university students and they didn't have any money. The only money I ever made was from "flipping" titles and selling used parts.

Ok, If I haven't totally discourged you, here is what I would recommend;
Start small and build a couple bikes at your house and try to sell them on Craigslist. I think you will find that it's more trouble than it's worth.
But you will fall in love with Ebikes, of that I'm sure. But like so much in life, better to make that your hobby and make a living doing something of which you will be sure to be financially rewarded.
Whatever you do, good luck.

There's no real definitive answer for #3, but I'd say that the majority of common ES use kits would be fine and reliable for normal folks. It's easy to read these threads and think something like the BBS02 has a lot of issues, but when you actually look into it, the common failures are from modified setups.
If they're even moderately reliable for some of these high power guys, you shouldn't have much issues at stock.

Ok, I saw leffex's post and that is another way to approach it.
What you would have to do is contact a international shipping broker and see what is the min. quanity you can ship on an overseas container. I think that is 1\4 th. of a container. Then you would have to ship or pick-up from the port, all expensive.
Look in any big city Craigslist and you will see "fly by night"vendors selling Chinese scooters, both gas and electric. Usually from a storage unit.
That is what they are doing, buying in bulk from China.
But they offer no after purchase support what so ever and I have always wondered who would buy from them for just that reason.

entretooth said:

1. Is it possible to make any bike into an e-bike?
2. I find a lot of different setups but what setup is the most durable and cost efficient one?
3. Is there any brand that offers cheap and lasting set-ups? Maybe one that does so for different bike sizes?

I'm still working on the business model but I'd be really glad to hear anything you guys have to add, all comments, pointers and critique you got would be really appreciated. If it's something you think I haven't thought about then please let me know

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1. Not every bike can be converted, but most can. There are so many details to this question, however, that a full answer of what works and what doesn't could fill several volumes of books. In very general terms, most 7 to 21 speed, non suspension mountain style bikes are easy to convert. The Trek 800 is a good example of an "Ideal" generic donor bike
2. None. there are a lot of setups because none are perfect fr every situation. Just like there are no "Perfect automobiles", because everyone has different needs and expectations, there are no perfect Ebikes. Every person's situation will be unique, and no setup can meet everyone's needs.
3. Chinese business models work much different than the US. if you want to make money, you're going to need to go to the manufacturer. they may sell you the exact same parts as another "brand" uses, or in some cases many "brands" use.
to put it in Americanized standards, Chinese manufacturing is like Chrysler decides to stop selling cars. instead they make a lot of generic cars with swappable body shells. Both Ford and Chevy decide to stop making cars, and instead they both buy cars from Chrysler, having Chrysler add their names and a few custom parts. But both Ford and Chevy are still in fierce competition with each other. And to confuse it even more, Chrysler has gotten so big doing this, they dictate to Ford and Chevy what cars they will get, changing models and parts any time they please. So Ford introduces a line of cars calling it the 2015 Ford Fux0r. This month it's a hot hatch back. Next month it's last year's pickup truck. 3 months from now it will be a wheezy diesel sedan that's only available in brown, beige, or electric pink. a month later it's a convertible muscle car, all being sold as Ford Fux0rs.
Chevy has to go through the Same thing. They call theirs the Chevy Rawxtar, and even though the vehicle is clearly different every month, they keep selling it by quoting the original specs from the first car they took delivery of. So that 2 door 3/4 pickup truck with a 7 liter V8 is being sold as a 5 door hatchback economy car that gets 47mpg.
And that's the Chinese way of doing business. If you want to make it in the Ebike business, you'll have to learn to adapt to it, and be able to adapt it to western consumers.


Before you get too far into this idea, I'd suggest converting a couple bikes for your self. See first hand what the bikes are capable of. Good ones are very good. Cheap ones are very bad. usually. Write them off as research.
Also, If you aren't a bicycle mechanic, hire yourself a good mechanic as a consultant. motors put many times more stress on a bike than they were designed for. They will break and you will be doing warranty work. Good mechanic skills, or having access to a good mechanic will be the difference between making it and going under.

It's much easier to become a dealer of existing brands. They give you maybe 30% discount on the retail price and give you support if anything goes wrong. You only have to contact a few brands to see if they want a new dealer in your town. Normally they do because it creates extra walk-in sales.

No it's a money loser. Plus time bucket. Unless Obama gives a 500usd. Tax break.

motomech said:

I'm not going to address your 3 questions because they are subjective and you will get a different answer from from every ëxpert" here."

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Maybe he's doing research for a book.

motomech said:

The real question is, can you make a living doing this, and I think the answer to that, is probably not.

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First question: Is this a "Retirement Job." If you don't HAVE to make a living. . . . Or are you in agriculture, part of the year it being parttime, etc.?

Can you or can't you convert any bike? YES. Do you WANT to? Are people REALLY going to be happy with it? Are you hoping that people will pay you to convert whatever bike they have? They'll probably want it fixed at the same time.

". . . .the most durable and cost efficient . . . ?" Enduring WHAT? How is the cost efficiency established? It's not cost efficient to put a huge battery on if they won't ride half that far, or a big motor to haul a load up hill if they won't. You have to suit the need.

That cheap and lasting setups question makes me think you're not ready for this business. What you're saying is you want the Chinese equipment they ACCIDENTALLY built well.

I was born in a town of a population of 23,000, with other towns not so far away, but my Mother had been making 15-20 mile drives to buy clothes for her kids. It's now approaching 200,000, touching one around 400,000, others at or near 100,000. So I thought I'd have memories when I saw my Mother's new town, popluation 10,000 in a county of 40,000, which she lives 15 miles from the city limits of. It's a different world, now. And it continues to change, Mom's town is more and more like the big city every time I go to visit.

I can't say it's a safe trip riding into town from Mom's house. Part of it narrow country roads with blind turns, part of it highway with fast moving cars and 18 wheelers. A lot of people wouldn't like the idea of riding into town.

Around town, I suppose there's a few of the elderly riding 3 wheelers just like everywhere else, some might want a motor on theirs. But they don't even have a bike shop there, unless you count WalMart.

I'll give you a business model. Buy premade bikes, as people said. Sell on eBay. Hang a few flyers around so people go to look at your eBay store, but don't get your face identified with it. If you make money you'll have far more sales away from your small town than you will at home.

Spend a year or two building bigger and better e-bikes yourself, for yourself. Find out where your mechanical competences are. Learn about components, suppliers, how long it takes to build one. Take a few business courses at the Community College.

And hope that internal combustion engines are banned, or that gasoline goes up to the 10 bucks a gallon that the politicians want.
and that electricity stays cheap (it won't).

Until then, selling production bikes is going to be a game for people with big bucks and business skills, whether in a city or a small hamlet.

Now, the first e-bike I built (7 years ago), the first guy that I showed it to, seriously offered me more money than it was actually worth. But I still would have lost money on it, not to mention hundreds of hours of time building and learning.
And in those days, there was no real competition from production ebikes... they were few, and way under powered for anything but leisurely rides on flat ground.

I do see a niche under current conditions for custom built, specialty bikes to maybe make you a survival level living without a quarter million $ or more upfront investment, but you better be a darn good engineer and craftsman before you even try.

I think that The Ikea e-bike will kill any other competition out there...
Why would any regular joe buy a ebike for 1500-2000USD when he can get this for 800?
http://cleantechnica.com/2014/05/21/folkvanlig-ikea-electric-bike/