Motor won't spin until spun manually?

K

knowhere

1 µW
Joined
Aug 19, 2014
Messages
3
Hey guys,

Just pulled out the old build.
Crystalyte controller with a geared BMC.
Could use some collective brainpower with this one

Soooo...

The motor has some resistance to being spun backward when speed control is on, won't start up until I give it a manual whirl, then won't stop spinning until speed control is cut.

Also, cycleanalyst says it's eating AH even when hub is disconnected and speed at 0.

Alsoso, getting big jumps in the power feed from the controller to the hub. With speed up, I get no output, then suddenly full.

Any ideas?
 
Well that's most likely why then. All sensorless controllers are not created equal and freewheeling geared motors are especially difficult to start and run in sensorless mode. I run all of my small geared motors in sensorless mode however that wasn't possible just a few years ago. So you either need to buy a more modern sensorless controller or if the 5 hall wires are present, test them to make sure the signals are good then buy a new sensored controller.

-R
 
The KU93 and KU123 controllers from BMSBattery are very good at starting sensorless motors. They can also work with hall sensors. Detection is automatic, so just connect what you have and away you go.
 
d8veh said:
The KU93 and KU123 controllers from BMSBattery are very good at starting sensorless motors. They can also work with hall sensors. Detection is automatic, so just connect what you have and away you go.
Click to expand...

The KU93 controller used to be my favorite controller until they changed the circuit board design. I love the old KU93 however the new design, which can be identified by an extra 4-pin connector that interfaces to a display unit, has a couple of problems which I discovered when I recently purchased my third unit. First, it won't run at full speed without the display. I ended up having to place another order to get one. Also while the controller is now dual 36/48v, the displays are not. I did however discover how to simulate the signal from the display with one resistor so I don't need to use it anymore. Next the instructions say to short two thin red wires for 36V operation...only there are no such wires! I assume the LVC control is now automatic though with my 36V battery the controller does start surging rather early at about 70% discharge. I haven't run it enough at 48V to see how it reacts. Lastly, while my two older model KU93's have no problem powering a Cute Q100 with its higher commutation frequency, the new model is unusable with that motor. So bottom line is I no longer recommend the KU93 controller. I would suspect the KU123 also has been redesigned and has the same flaws but I have not tried one. The new S09PW from BMSBattery might be a better choice however it also needs a display unit and again I haven't tried one yet.

If the 5 sensor wires are available it may be best to use them with a sensored controller. The OP may want to contact EM3ev.com which has controllers that work with MAC motors and should work well with the BMC too.


-R
 
Since the motor is only 3 wire, how would I hook up a 5 wire to it?
Another thought, since I've had this bad boy for 5 years and never had this issue, how could the problem be with the sensor?
Could it be with the speed control?
 
I didn't think that BMC motors ever came JUST sensorless. Did someone simply cut off or tuck back/tape over the 5 hall sensor wires? Anyway if it did once run fine with the Crystalyte sensorless controller and now it doesn't then it's likely something has failed in the controller and you need a replacement controller. Do however check the 3 phase wires to be sure they are making good electrical contact. Also if you have another motor available try the Crystalyte controller on it.

-R

PS, Is the throttle connected directly to the controller or is it routed through the Cycle Analyst first?
 
Russell said:
The KU93 controller used to be my favorite controller until they changed the circuit board design. I love the old KU93 however the new design, which can be identified by an extra 4-pin connector that interfaces to a display unit, has a couple of problems which I discovered when I recently purchased my third unit. First, it won't run at full speed without the display. I ended up having to place another order to get one. Also while the controller is now dual 36/48v, the displays are not. I did however discover how to simulate the signal from the display with one resistor so I don't need to use it anymore. Next the instructions say to short two thin red wires for 36V operation...only there are no such wires! I assume the LVC control is now automatic though with my 36V battery the controller does start surging rather early at about 70% discharge. I haven't run it enough at 48V to see how it reacts. Lastly, while my two older model KU93's have no problem powering a Cute Q100 with its higher commutation frequency, the new model is unusable with that motor. So bottom line is I no longer recommend the KU93 controller. I would suspect the KU123 also has been redesigned and has the same flaws but I have not tried one. The new S09PW from BMSBattery might be a better choice however it also needs a display unit and again I haven't tried one yet.

If the 5 sensor wires are available it may be best to use them with a sensored controller. The OP may want to contact EM3ev.com which has controllers that work with MAC motors and should work well with the BMC too.


-R
Click to expand...

That's a real blow! The old ones were so dependable. I think I still have one of each, so I need to keep them for testing. Thanks for that.
 
Help me please!

I've the new ku123 (without led panel but one shunt on led panel wire of controller) and it won't start with my BPM.

I try with and without hall sensors, with and without 3 speed switch, with another throttle, etc...

I hope it can start without led panel??? Normally yes???
 
toniovelo said:
Help me please!

I've the new ku123 (without led panel but one shunt on led panel wire of controller) and it won't start with my BPM.

I try with and without hall sensors, with and without 3 speed switch, with another throttle, etc...

I hope it can start without led panel??? Normally yes???
Click to expand...

Try connecting the bare minimum cables required to run the motor sensorlessly, which are:

3 phase wires (yel,grn,blu)
2 power wires (red,blk)
Short red to blue on the 4-pin LED panel connector. A plug should have been provided to do this.
Throttle (make sure wires line up; red-red, blk-blk, and third color which is normally grn,blu or wht)

That's all that should be required.
KU123.jpg


-R
 
toniovelo said:
I do this but no results... i hope it's not any bad controller :cry:
Another idea?
Click to expand...

Does the motor make any sound as if it's running backwards inside the motor case?

Does the controller get hot when you engage the throttle ?

If you have a voltmeter check the following:
Throttle wires coming from the controller; there should be roughly +5V from RED to BLK.
4-pin LED panel/Power Switch plug; RED to BLK should read your battery voltage and from GRN to BLK should read about +5V. Make certain the jumper plug provided does indeed short the RED to BLU wires. This connection turns on the controller.

-R
 
The motor get no sound! I verify that on throttle red on red, black on black and other color together and it's not hot... I build a lot of electric bike and it's first time that i no found the problem...

There is no any wire on 3 speed switch to start this controller? Or the controller is dead... :shock:

Definitively, i prefer old KU123 and old KU63.
 
Disconnect everything except the battery and motor phase wires. Put a meter between the battery black and the LED panel connector red. It should be battery voltage. Now check between the red and black throttle connector pins, which should be 0v. Short the red and blue on the LED panel connector. You should now have 5v between the red and black on the throttle connector. Confirm those results, and then we can advise further.
 
Caroline from bmsbattery sa y me that new ku123 can work only with throttle + PAS. It's not true?
I test with meter when i will have Any moment 0 ans +5v.
 
toniovelo said:
Caroline from bmsbattery sa y me that new ku123 can work only with throttle + PAS. It's not true?
I test with meter when i will have Any moment 0 ans +5v.
Click to expand...


Well I can only speak to the newer KU93 design (with the extra 4-pin meter connector ) which isn't the case. My KU93 runs without PAS but did need the LED810 meter to run at full speed. That requirement can be circumvented by installing a resistor between the signal (GRN) and ground (BLK) to simulate the throttle signal it expects to see there. I installed the resistor internally and don't remember the value I used offhand (I think it was 15 K-ohm).

-R
 
OK thanks everybody for your help (bad english sorry).

I test in few days with all possibility you explain me. I hope that new KU123 can work without LCD or LED meter because BMS battery no speak about this. They says that it can work only with shunt on LED panel 4-pins connectors but after 5 e-bike build, it's 1st time i've a problem with a controller... And, i test with another controller and the motor BPM run very good.

I suppose, it's possible to build any solder resistance (or other idea) to simulate the PAS if it's necessary to work the new KU123.

@ Russell, if you have any pics about your soldering resistance it was nice!
 
Looks like BMSBattery are improving their customer service. Let us know if the new controller fixes it.
 
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