Electra Townie build advice

So I was looking real hard at the Mini Outrider because of it weight and size and the fact that our normal ride is pretty flat, but I know if I do this conversion we will want to take other routes which have several hills to climb.
When I first started research on this forum I had decided on going with a 9C rear DD hub, then I thought I had it nailed down to the Outrider..
Anyway, a few things that I know below.
1 Would like to use my existing 12s Turnigy batteries not a must though
2 I would like to be able for it to pull or help pull some hills with my 210lb mass on it without damage to it
3 Would like to purchase from the US or Canada

Thanks
 
52piockup said:
So I was looking real hard at the Mini Outrider because of it weight and size and the fact that our normal ride is pretty flat, but I know if I do this conversion we will want to take other routes which have several hills to climb.
When I first started research on this forum I had decided on going with a 9C rear DD hub, then I thought I had it nailed down to the Outrider..
Anyway, a few things that I know below.
1 Would like to use my existing 12s Turnigy batteries not a must though
2 I would like to be able for it to pull or help pull some hills with my 210lb mass on it without damage to it
3 Would like to purchase from the US or Canada

Thanks
1Turnigy lipo is the best and you already have experience with the chemistry, be a shame to ditch it.
I assume you have a charger too. I like the Thunder 1220 for 12S, but it's on backorder right now.
2 There are hills and then there are hills. How long and how steep?
3 That reallY limits what's available. It all comes from China anyhow and now they are getting the stuff to customers in 7 to 10 days.
Why limit your options?
 
52piockup said:
Anyway, a few things that I know below.
1 Would like to use my existing 12s Turnigy batteries not a must though
2 I would like to be able for it to pull or help pull some hills with my 210lb mass on it without damage to it
3 Would like to purchase from the US or Canada

Thanks

Sure you can use your LiPo batteries. Get a 48V controller if you want to have some kind of low battery voltage control.

Small geared motors are great when supplemented with your pedaling. A safe peak power level for small 250-350W hubbies is about 750W. I would use 1000W as an upper limit but be careful at this level as the motors can get very hot up hills.

Pretty much everything E-Bike related comes from China one way or the other.

I have 3 E-Bikes; 2 with small front geared motors at 600-900Wp and a Townie with a rear Bafang BPM running 1200-1300Wp. I'm 200 lbs and top an 8% grade (w/heavy pedaling) at 11-12mph, 14-16 mph and 20+ mph, respectively with each.

See the Townie here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62962

-R
 
Motomech
I have a couple of 6s chargers but would like to get one to do more cells
The steepest hill would be about 4 or 5% grade for 1000 feet from a dead stop at the bottom of it.

The only reason I would like to use US vendor is mostly because of shipping issues and cost. From what I see you will pay the same amount for a kit from china as you would from the US after you figure in the cost of shipping.
The other reason would be on the support end of the purchase. I feel I could get better service and support if I have problems or the unit is defective if I use a US or Canadian company, not to mention the return shipping if there is a problem with kit.

I may be totally wrong in my thinking though? Maybe you guys could sway me a different direction as I have never purchased anything e-bike related to date...

Russel
I know all of them come from China, what doesn't anymore?
I just looked at your Townie and that type of performance is what I should probably shoot for. Nice build by the way!
 
Frankly in the USA your choices are very limited:

http://www.ebikekit.com/ (Great customer service. Note their geared motors are high speed, not esp good for hills)

http://www.ebikessf.com/ (for good, but expensive BMC motors)

In Canada:

http://www.ebikes.ca/ (TOP RETAILER. read everything at this site even if you don't buy)

http://www.goldenmotor.ca/ (no experience with them)

China: (I have ordered from all of these at one time or another)

http://em3ev.com/store/ (they supply the best information on their products)

http://www.bmsbattery.com/ (carry the most products at good prices but customer service is lacking)

http://www.elifebike.com/ (only placed small orders here, but no problems and they shipped fast)

http://www.greenbikekit.com/

-R
 
The motors are the same wherever you buy them from; however, it's the rest of the stuff that makes the difference. The people selling kits normally have very basic stuff, while as from China, you can get the best controllers, displays and sensors for the same price as the basic stuff from your local supplier.

For 210 pounds, the 201 rpm mini motor would be OK at 12S as long as you don't have long hills. For that weight, a bigger motor, like the Bafang BPM or CST would give you a more comfortable ride.
 
If you are like most of us, even before you finish installing your first kit, you will be thinking about what you are going to do different for the second.. This can get rather addicting.
How 'bout sticking to the original idea of putting together an Ebike for your Better Half. A little mini-motor, but instead of Lipo, one of the new Bottle style batteries with an intergrated controller, keep it mild, 36V\15A. If you go with the bigger motor(and it seems you want to), you will probably want to limit power if she is going to ride it, which can be done with a CA or a programable controller.
But if she is going to be the main rider, one of the new kits from Elifebike or BMS Battery are made to order. Inexspensive, easy to install and easy to ride. The new sine-wave controllers are remarkably smooth and quiet.
In the mean time, you can start looking for that used Mountain Bike and planning your larger geared motor\12S lipo build.
Then you two can ride together :lol:
 
Thanks fo the help guys.
I have waffled over what to get far too long!
I pulled the trigger on the 48v 1000w Yescom kit, why you say? Because I prefer to learn shit the hard way...
I know it's an inferior product compared to what I was looking at but, it is cheap, it is my first kit, and will not be my last kit.

I have a fatbike for myself that I will be converting at some point, this kit should let me get my feet wet for minimal loss if it turns out to be a POS.

Thanks again
 
Well, I ordered it last Tuesday and it showed up last Friday, as luck would have it I had to work 12 hours on Saturday so I had to wait to install it on Sunday..
This may be a cheap kit but man does it work great, having a blast with it!
 

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52piockup said:
Well, I ordered it last Tuesday and it showed up last Friday, as luck would have it I had to work 12 hours on Saturday so I had to wait to install it on Sunday..
This may be a cheap kit but man does it work great, having a blast with it!

Looks good 8)

Can you give some details about the kit:

Wheel build-was it tight, round and true?
Controller-connectors good, amp limit,etc?
Battery you are using?
Top speed?
Link to where you got it?

-R
 
Nice going. I was hoping you wouldn't cave and buy a geared motor for the Townie. A Townie is a lot of bike, although it doesn't <necessarily> weigh that much. My Aluminum frame 7D is quite light, yet the bike <looks> beefy <and probably is> like a tank. It also rides like a Cadillac with fat low rolling resistance tires. Very plush. So you don't need as much torque as you think. I have a Crystalyte 406 front on mine, and I love the flatland speed, and the torque is adequate when I pedal in the lowest gear to climb virtually any hills around here. Don't give up your flatland speed with those small geared motors <on this bike>. A front 9C on the 7D Townie would be awesome, with nice high gearing. I'm convinced that you made a very good choice for your number one build. That should be an excellent ride. If you want speed <and quiet>, go DD. Good luck and ENJOY.
 
Russel
I got the kit from Ebay Yescom http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26...952?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43cf7f2860

The wheel was pretty much dead nuts true, the spokes seem tight but I'm not familiar with that heavy of gauge spoke tension.
I think the controller connectors are cheezy, having said that I think they will carry more amps than the phase wires will because they are 16g at best.Yescom controller plugs 1000w kit.jpg

I am going to change all the power connectors to Deutsch DT and DTP series connectors, they are waterproof and are rated for the currect this controller will put out.Deutsch connectors.jpg

I am using unknown condition harvested from backups, 12ah SLA batteries until I can get my Lipo charging operation set up safe enough for my wife to use, but I had the bike up to 26mph on these batteries.

Chvidgov
I agree, the Townie is very comfortable and feels like a solid bike to me.
I have not heard a geared motors noise but this one is very quite
I'm very satisfied with my purchase so far..
 
Oh, I forgot this part. I went thru Ebates and got 4% back and yescom had a $10 off anything over $150 :D
 
Went for a 5 mile ride today to see what my LIPO's can provide..
Average speed was 23mph with several 33mph blasts, man this thing is fun!
Anyway, I am running 3 4s 5000Ma Turnigy packs in series for 12s and put 1000Ma back in each one.
Not sure if that is good fuel mileage or not but I,m happy with it.

I'm going to limit the speed to 25mph tomorrow and try for 10 miles to see what happens.
 
52piockup said:
Went for a 5 mile ride today to see what my LIPO's can provide..
Average speed was 23mph with several 33mph blasts, man this thing is fun!
Anyway, I am running 3 4s 5000Ma Turnigy packs in series for 12s and put 1000Ma back in each one.
Not sure if that is good fuel mileage or not but I,m happy with it.

I'm going to limit the speed to 25mph tomorrow and try for 10 miles to see what happens.

Stating your power consumption in mA (I assume you meant mAh) doesn't mean much to others. It's best to use Watt-hours since it is independent of the battery voltage you are using. Having a wattmeter inline with your battery while you ride is the best way to get this data. They are available as little as $20.

Are you charging each 4S pack separately or are you bulk charging the entire pack at once? How are you determining how much capacity you are putting back?

Unless you are a super cyclist I would expect you to use more than 9.4 Wh/mi from your pack to achieve an average speed of 23 mph over 5 miles on an E-bike (Assuming an average voltage during discharge of 47V x 1Ah = 47Wh or 9.4Wh/mi).

-R
 
For reference I went out for a ride on my Townie with my new 12S 16Ah LiPo battery ( http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=63045&start=25#p950448 ).

The BPM (running sensorless) makes a lot of racket right at 25.0 mph so I cruised most of the way at around 24 mph. I will probably get a DD motor like yours for it next spring.

Stats:

Distance: 18.0 mi
Average speed 22.5 mph

Wh used: 495.6
Ah used: 10.742 (67% of rated)

Wp: 1296
Ap: 26.55

Vrest: 45.25
Vmin: 44.04

Wh/mi: 27.5

-R
 
1000 per pack, so 3000 total. I am getting the info from my charger, I charge to 4.15 per cell when it reaches the cutoff it displayed 1000ma put in.
I need to get a watt meter or a CA, I stopped several times to check the cells to make sure I didn't pull the voltage too low on the batteries.
I guess I could throw my Fluke on it and go for a ride to see how much sag I am getting. I have a 25 amp fuse on the pack also.
 
52piockup said:
1000 per pack, so 3000 total. I am getting the info from my charger, I charge to 4.15 per cell when it reaches the cutoff it displayed 1000ma put in.
I need to get a watt meter or a CA, I stopped several times to check the cells to make sure I didn't pull the voltage too low on the batteries.
I guess I could throw my Fluke on it and go for a ride to see how much sag I am getting. I have a 25 amp fuse on the pack also.


3 Ah for 5 miles is exactly what I used from my 12S pack for the (very little pedaling) trip I did yesterday on my Townie, 10.742Ah/18mi x 5mi. The thing is if you put 1 Amp-hour into 3 separate 4S packs that is the equivalent of 1Ah for the entire 12S pack, not 3Ah.

-R
 
Stating your power consumption in mA (I assume you meant mAh)
Unless you are a super cyclist I would expect you to use more than 9.4 Wh/mi from your pack to achieve an average speed of 23 mph over 5 miles on an E-bike (Assuming an average voltage during discharge of 47V x 1Ah = 47Wh or 9.4Wh/mi).

Sorry Russell, didn't catch this (rough night at work) Yes I meant mAh.
I didn't pedal much at all during the 5 mile ride, I did have some elevation changes that slowed me a bit but not enough to pedal hard.
Also, I have no idea if the speeds I am giving are correct. The display has the common wheel sizes to choose from when setting it up, you can't enter your tire circumference. I need to do GPS check...

Could you point me to an accurate watt meter for ~$20? I found some with good reviews for over $50 but at that price point I think would rather a Cycle Analyst, I know it is over $100 but it gives much more info..

Thanks
 
A Cycle Analyst gives the most info plus it has a number of other features that are great if you use them. For several reasons I never owned one:
1) I exclusively have geared motors so the speed function does not work for me,
2) I've only ever owned one controller with a direct-connect CA connector (and I removed it)
3) They are pricey
4) When I first started E-biking I mounted a Watt's Up meter on the handlebars. I liked watching it and with a small battery it was useful. Once I got bigger batteries I didn't need to closely monitor my power consumption. I do like to collect ride data so I toss a meter in with my battery and record the trip info on a log sheet at the end of a ride.
5) It can't be easily moved around. I use the meters for various bikes and when recharging batteries so I use it on and off the bike.

Here are the wattmeters I own:

IMAGE002.JPG

Top is the Watt's Up meter. The first wattmeter I owned was a WU meter. I blew it up and bought another right away because I can't do without it. They run $50-60. I like the small size and accuracy. It also is the best sealed of the bunch. I ran a bead of superglue around the edge of the display on my first one that was used out in the open. The display can flake out if it gets hot so I no longer carry this one in the trunk bag with the battery.

The middle one is a Turnigy wattmeter. These came out a couple of years after I bought the WU meter. I bought TWO of these for the price of a WU meter. Unfortunately 1 of the 2 calculated Watt-hours incorrectly so I tossed it. So was it a bargain and what if your ONLY wattmeter is inaccurate, how would you know? They do have adjustment pots inside for voltage and current calibration, a nice feature, but it didn't help with Wh. The case is vented and sort of rubberized making it robust. This is the one I have been tossing in with the battery for trip info.

The last one is something I just got today from amazon for $15 delivered. The case is metal and is definitely not waterproof.

For the price I would probably recommend the Turnigy or one of the many clones available now.

-R
 
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