ebrake, 3 speed switch, and cruise issues on MAC

Hi all,

I just got my first ebike up and going but having a few issues. It is a MAC motor, 12 FET Infineon controller, and a CA v3. I am hoping the issues are all related... or at least 2 of them.

First, the ebrakes. When I use the left brake it will disengage the throttle. Not the case on the right brake. When I have the auto cruise on, the right brake or left brake will not disable the auto cruise from the CA. The only way to disable the auto cruise is to push the green cruise button.

Second, the auto cruise feature on the CA. Intermittently, when the cruise control automatically comes on it will accelerate and keep accelerating until I manually stop it (by pushing the green button). Sometimes though it will not do this and stay at or near the desired speed. I researched this issue on the forum and someone in the past had a similar issue and they recommend that the throttle be replaced. So I did that, but no luck. The problem is still there.

Third, the three speed switch. I have tried to use the switch to limit my speed but the only way that the switch will limit the speed is by selecting to have it limit by mph. I would prefer to limit it by power. Whenever I select the voltage settings the switch does nothing.

If you have any ideas I would really appreciate your help.

Thanks in advance.

Are your ebrakes connected to the CA or the controller?

Are you using the brakes from your em3ev kit or are you using the hidden wire brake sensor on standard brakes?

Kudos

The brakes connect to the controller. Yes, the brakes are from the em3ev kit.

Are you trying to use the CA cruise or the controller cruise?
If the CA is instigating the cruise, then your brakes need to be connected to the CA and not your controller. If the CA is controlling cruise it it essentially sending a constant throttle signal to controller... in which case, the CA then needs the brake signal to cut throttle.

To limit speed, you have to actually limit speed...limiting speed by limiting power is not actually limiting speed...

ex.
If you limit power to say, 500w and you hit a hill, you will slow down as your bike won't push past that 500w to maintain speed under higher load. If you limit mph, then your bike will still increase power to maintain speed under load.

I use my 3spd switch as:
1-Legal (32kph limit, power unlimited)
2-Eco (speed unlimited, power limited to 20a)
3-Unlimited (speed unlimited, power unlimited)

I also use a 3-pos switch at my controller to limit max watts at the controller level, which essentially gives me a faux 9 settings.

Hope this helps.
Cheers

You are in a bit a weird place in that you EM3EV makes a nice complete plug and play kit and also offers a V3 as an add-on that is somewhat pre-configured. The problem is that adding the V3 may necessitate undoing some of the plug and play stuff. This may be a little unexpected.

Download the V3 Unofficial Use Guide and take a look at section "3.4 Important Conflicts with Controller Features". In short, you have two smart gadgets - the controller and the CA and neither knows what the other is doing as far as fancy features like ebrakes and cruise control are concerned. This can lead to some weird and dangerous situations as the two devices blunder ahead at odds with each other.

The solution is to assign control of all the fancy stuff to a single device - the CA. If you understand the details, you can do some hybrid hookups, but 'CA-only' is the sure-fire approach.

• I won't go through all of your cases, but look at the case of using the controller cruise control. When this is engaged, motor power is no longer controlled by the throttle - but the throttle is what the CA uses to control everything. This means that LVC cutoff, temperature rollback, and current/power/speed limiting are deactivated. So - you might head up a hill on controller cruise and the CA cannot throttle back while your motor melts. Unfortunately, The CA will TRY to cut the throttle and will reduce it to zero but the controller is ignoring the throttle. Now, you try to kill the cruise by opening the throttle but the throttle is dead because the CA has already reduced it to zero and won't let you increase it. You can only release the cruise by ebrakes, etc. Not Good at All...

To do:

• You need to lose the controller cruise control and use the CA cruise exclusively.
• Since you have no regen, there is no reason to have the ebrakes on the controller and can connect the ebrakes exclusively to the CA. This is discussed in section "5.3 eBrakes".
• Ideally, you probably want to use Current or Power Throttle for more refined throttle control. To avoid a dead zone at the top of the throttle, you should be using a CA 3-speed switch, not a controller switch. With the CA version, the throttle will scale 0-100% over complete throttle rotation at any switch setting. If you use a controller switch the throttle will have a wonky dead zone at the top. This scaling is discussed in section "5.5 Auxiliary Pot".

This is a minor bit of rewiring and leaves you with an unused green 'cruise button'. You might wire this up in parallel to your ebrakes to knock out cruise control, or finagle it into the 3-speed switch as a 'boost' option. There has been some discussion of adding button-operated cruise control to the V3 in the future, but for now, such a feature is unavailable.

Thanks all for the help. It is very helpful. I have ordered a crimper and connectors from ebike.ca to wire the brakes into the CA. It makes sense the auto cruise isn't working properly and to have the CA control as much as possible.

I had another ES user send me their CA settings to try to get the 3 pos switch to work. They have nearly the same components as me but unfortunately I have not had any luck with getting it to work correctly. If you have any ideas specific to the 3 pos switch please let me know. It only works when limiting speed by mph.

Thanks again,

Is your switch working? Is the display toggling through your three profile settings? Is it setup for profiles?

You have to modify the settings 3 times...1 for each mode on your switch. Switch to pos1 and then update settings...then switch to pos2 and update those settings, then switch to pos3 and update final settings.

You can also set the switch to do different things...perhaps you have it doing something else?

slawsonxo said:

I had another ES user send me their CA settings to try to get the 3 pos switch to work. They have nearly the same components as me but unfortunately I have not had any luck with getting it to work correctly.
...
It only works when limiting speed by mph.

Click to expand...

Please review "Appendix E. Configurable Aux Pot 3-Position Switch Using Fixed Resistors" of the Guide and ensure you verify the percentages in step 7. Review the instructions and table in the "Limit Mode" section of "5.4 Auto-Cruise Control" to get the proper Amp/Watt mode selected.

As r3volved mentioned earlier, limiting Amps/Watts with the switch indirectly limits speed but if you want accurate speed limiting you need to use 'Speed Lim' mode. Here I'm guessing this is just an explanation thing and you want the familiar lower power modes for improved controllability at lower speeds.

If this still does not work, use the CA setup Utility to extract your settings and post the file here as described in this post.

So I checked the settings again reviewed in "Appendix E. Configurable Aux Pot 3-Position Switch Using Fixed Resistors" in the guide as outlined in step 7. Changed to different percentages to see if anything would work. Did this on all three positions of the switch. Still no luck....

I will review the link in your post on how to extract the settings from the CA. I don't have a cable, but my local bike shop may be able to help.

You mention that there is a limit mode table in the section in of Auto-Cruise Control. I think you meant to say in the Appendix E section. Right? Just wanted to make sure I am not missing anything. I have read and re-read the manual and didn't see any other tables related to this.

As you mention, I am trying to set a low power setting for position 1. I think this might be safer for lower speeds.

As for the cruise control, I am going to wait until I get the new ebrakes, connectors, and crimpers arrive to fix that. I did notice that my setting for ThrI-> Cruise Hold is set to 0.15v on my CA but the graphic in the manual is 0.05v. Would this cause the issues of sudden acceleration once the cruise is activated? I was going to try it, but its a little cold here tonight.

I REALLY appreciate the help!!!

slawsonxo said:

So I checked the settings again reviewed in "Appendix E. Configurable Aux Pot 3-Position Switch Using Fixed Resistors" in the guide as outlined in step 7. Changed to different percentages to see if anything would work. Did this on all three positions of the switch. Still no luck....

Click to expand...

Do you mean you could not configure it for different percentages or the percentages were not applied to MaxCurrent?

slawsonxo said:

I will review the link in your post on how to extract the settings from the CA. I don't have a cable, but my local bike shop may be able to help.[

Click to expand...

Unlikely they will have one. You need to get one anyways so you can upgrade your firmware. You are running on Beta code now....

slawsonxo said:

You mention that there is a limit mode table in the section in of Auto-Cruise Control. I think you meant to say in the Appendix E section. Right?

Click to expand...

Oops - frantic cut 'n' paste error...
I meant "5.5 Auxiliary Pot".

slawsonxo said:

I did notice that my setting for ThrI-> Cruise Hold is set to 0.15v on my CA but the graphic in the manual is 0.05v. Would this cause the issues of sudden acceleration once the cruise is activated?

Click to expand...

Nope - the graphic is just illustrative. This setting controls the sensitivity to throttle 'wiggle' when you are trying to engage auto-cruise by holding it steady.

Okay - so no cable - do it the old-fashioned way:

Please post all your ThrI, PLim, and Aux settings.
e.g.
ThrI->CntrlMode = PassThru
ThrI->MinInput = 0.80V
etc.

I was able to put in the percentages for all 3 positions of the switch but the bike was able to to go to max power in all 3 positions.

While I was out on my ride last night I was on a rough road and heard something break. The Axiom rack holding my SLA batteries bent on one side and broke on the other. My batteries are heavy (~37lbs) but the rack is supposed to hold over 100 lbs. So right now I have the rack off the bike and another ordered. Hopefully by Saturday I will have it all together and I will send the settings then.

Thanks for your help!

slawsonxo said:

I was able to put in the percentages for all 3 positions of the switch but the bike was able to to go to max power in all 3 positions.

Click to expand...

Okay - just a couple of things it might be. Post up the stuff anytime when you get a chance...

Sorry to hear about the rack implosion...

Its been a few days but finally got everything back together. I installed the 3 position switch and throttle control from ebikes.ca.

I am still confused by the 3 position switch. I have tried selecting the Aux -> Scale Limit to Amps and Power with no luck. Now when I put in values from the chart in "Appendix E. Configurable Aux Pot 3-Position Switch Using Fixed Resistors" I am not able to get the correct percentages when switching to different postions on the switch. The old switch does the same.

If you have a second, please take a look at the values below and see if anything stands out. Thanks again for your help.

Setup Throt In
0.86v 00% Amps
ThrI -> Cntrl Mode
Current (A)

ThrI -> Min Input
0.90 volts

ThrI-> Max Input
4.10 Volts

ThrI-> Fault Volt
4.49 Volts

ThrI -> Auto Cruise
Off

ThrI -> Cruise Hold
0.10 Volts

Setup Throt Out
1.30 – 3.65v
ThrO -> Output Mode
Voltage

ThrO -> Min Out
1.30 Volts

ThrO -> Max Out
3.65 Volts

ThrO -> Brake Out
0.0 Volts

ThrO -> Up Rate
10.00 vlt / sec

ThrO -> Down Rate
20.00 vlt / sec

ThrO -> Fast Rate
20.00 vlt / sec

ThrO -> Fast Thrsh
3.00 amps

Setup Speed Limit
32.0 mph
Slim -> Max Speed
32.00 mph

Slim -> strt speed
0.0 mph

Slim -> Inst SGain
50 Gain

Slim -> PSGain
1.00v / mph

Slim -> DSGain
100 Gain

Setup Power Limits
40A 2000W
PLim -> Max Current
40.0 Amps

PLim -> AGain
60 Gain

PLim -> Max Power
2000 Watts

PLim -> WGain
50 Gain

Setup PAS Sensor
PAS Off

Setup Trq Sensor
4.79v Disbld

Setup Aux Pot
2.96v 99% Amp (Position 1)
3.09v 99% Amp (Postion 2)
3.54v 99% Amp (Postion 3)
Aux -> Function
Limits

Aux -> Scale Limit
Amps Limit

Aux -> Min Aux In
1.04 Volts

Aux -> Max In
1.31 Volts

slawsonxo said:

...when I put in values from the chart in "Appendix E. Configurable Aux Pot 3-Position Switch Using Fixed Resistors" I am not able to get the correct percentages when switching to different postions on the switch.

Click to expand...

The image below summarizes the Good, the Bad, and Some Recommendations.

Okay - stuff looks pretty good across the board, but the AuxPot settings are a little wonky which is leading to your odd results. If you compare the voltages from the 'Setup AUX POT' preview screen, you can see the switch voltages are far above your configured Aux->MaxIn which is giving you the 99% limiting effect. At least the 'position 2' voltage displayed there should lie between MinIn and MaxIn to get a percentage in the range 0-100%.

I have suggested the 33% / 66% / 100% AuxPot settings from the example on page 65 of the Guide. Give this a try, then review the Guide example and adjust as appropriate to get the percentages you prefer.


I suggested that you disable FastRate to minimize (re)engagement impact (relies on UpRate) to make things smoother - at least to start with. You can re-enable this and tinker as you see feel is appropriate - just a thought....

• EDIT - Hmmm - looking more carefully at those switch voltages - something does not look quite right. The stock ebikes.ca switch should be giving you voltages of (1.66V, 2.5V, 3.33V) but yours are (2.96V, 3.09V, 3.54V). I'm not sure why your values differ, but I'll post back with something that will work for your particular switch.
  
  Please see next post for revised recommendation for AuxPot setup.

Please use the custom table below to configure your switch. This table is ONLY for your particular switch.


The highlighted section shows the setting selection for a 32% / 66% / 99%.

• Aux->MinIn = 2.84V
  Aux->MaxIn = 3.22V

Although the table above will make your switch operate properly, there is something really odd about your switch voltages. You mention that you have two switches -

• Are these EM3EV stock switches?
• Were they plug and play or did you modify the wiring? (If so, how?)
• Do they both have the same voltages in each position? Please post the voltages if not.

Perhaps there is a fabrication error in a batch of EM3EV switches - if you can post back with the info above, I can ping Paul if something is awry.
Thanks!

Thanks for the chart. I will try this in a while.

No the switch is from grintechnologies.com straight from the package. I didn't change the wiring.

The numbers in the chart worked and was able to get 33%, 66%, and 99%. Since the voltages are incorrect for the switch I will contact grin technologies and let them know.

The voltages for my other switches from em3ev are correct - 1.60v, 2.42v, and 4.99v.

Thanks for your help.

slawsonxo said:

The numbers in the chart worked and was able to get 33%, 66%, and 99%.

Click to expand...

Excellent news!

Since you seem to have an odd switch, please find attached a PDF with an extended version of the table that you can print or file away for future adjustments. The larger table gives you a few more adjustment options. The settings to use it as a preset switch can be found at the bottom.

View attachment LMH-FixedR-Adj-1-5-EM3EV-GT-MIX.pdf

• EDIT - see next post!

Mystery solved.

It looks like you got your V3 from EM3EV and the 3-position switch from Grin.

• The Grin 3-position switch has the resistors internal to the switch.
• However, Paul at EM3EV reports that they add the resistor divider internal to the CA so they can use a standard controller 3-position switch with the CA.

So - your particular parts selection ended up with two sets of resistors in play which resulted in the unusual voltages.

What you have is fine, but the voltage levels are a bit close. It's unlikely, but if you have any issues with drifting settings, you can either remove the added resistors in the CA case, or change to a standard controller 3-position switch (or any other ON-OFF-ON switch that you like) in place of the Grin unit.

EM3EV is considering relocating the resistors to the switch in the future.

I just fitted my bike with a Em3ev MAC with a CA V3 and am also having trouble with the 3 speed switch. I have a thumb throttle and a separate 3 speed switch.



I'm trying to use it to change between 3 presets, but it only changes between 2. I get presets 1 and 2, but switching to the third position does nothing.
At the moment I have the following behavior:

Switch position - Preset
I - Preset 2
II - Preset 1
III - Preset 1

It seems that the III position doesn't switch anything because it's the same as position II (OFF) or detaching the switch. It's also a bit unintuitive that the preset 1 is in the middle position (II) of the switch.

teklektik said:

However, Paul at EM3EV reports that they add the resistor divider internal to the CA so they can use a standard controller 3-position switch with the CA.

Click to expand...

I tested the switch and it does what it is supposed to (ON - OFF - ON, connecting leads 1 and 2 in position I and connecting leads 1 and 3 in position III). How could I troubleshoot the issue without opening the CA and checking the resistors?

I think you'll need to measure the resistance values at each switch position and set them accordingly in the CA preferences. It was identified earlier that the em3ev switch uses different resistors than the grin switch...CA comes preconfigured to match the grin switch.

r3volved said:

I think you'll need to measure the resistance values at each switch position and set them accordingly in the CA preferences. It was identified earlier that the em3ev switch uses different resistors than the grin switch...CA comes preconfigured to match the grin switch.

Click to expand...

That was my problem exactly. There are no resistances in the em3ev switch because they are built in to the casing of the CA.

I found the problem and got it working though. A mindful reread of the unofficial manual helped. I had not understood the Min Aux Input and Max Aux Input values. They were set to 0V to 3.2V. I set them to 0V to 4.99 V and now all the 3 positions work. Teklektiks unofficial manual rocks!