BMC Geared Hub Motor Dosent Run properly|Solved|

xlzeo

10 W
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Aug 8, 2012
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96
Location
israel
Hi Guys,
i have the BMC geared hub motor i have purchase from ebikessf.com
i have purchased it as used motor.
from the begining i recived it it didnt run properly.
i had to replace the one of the hall sensors.
now i runing it on a 16 inch spoke wheel with 9 fets infenion controller (sensores)
at 36V it runing badly, its not runing smothly at all and its runing in pulses- the pulses not start at the begining , at the begining its runing smothly and a\when i go to about 8 mp/h, its starting to run in pulses very anoying .
at 48V its happens only after about - 1.2 miles, till tis distance it runing smoothly, but after this distance it getting even worse, it can start alone, it need push, and its starts pulse again and cant gain speed above 8 mp/h.
anyways it seems like the top speed is to low the max speed is about 12 mp/h.

what i have checked:
1. i have tested the pahse wires and hall sensors - both looking good.
2. i have checked for heating, the motor does not heat at all and the controller not heating at all , alsi pahse wires not heating.
3. i have tested the throttle- seems ok.


im hopeless, this motor drive me crazy, anyone can advise?
many thanks in advanced
 
Probably the easiest thing to do is get a modern sensorless controller and run it sensorless. Which controller are you now using?
 
d8veh said:
Probably the easiest thing to do is get a modern sensorless controller and run it sensorless. Which controller are you now using?
infenion 12 fets sensored
 
It sounds as if you have at least two difficulties:
  • low top speed
  • power cutouts at midpower (pulsing - rough running)
re: Speed
Unfortunately, you have two things going against you: low voltage and a really small wheel. You didn't say what kind of BMC you have. I know Ilia at Ebikes SF is fond of the low speed V2T/V4C winds. As you can see from the simulator run below, the 'torque' motor should only hit 13mph and the 'speed' motor should only do 17+mph. So - depending on what you have, things may be working properly - or at least not as badly as you thought...

BmcV2s-V2tComparison.png
re: cutouts
What you are describing was very common a few years ago with folks trying to run MACs and BMCs with Infineon (Xie Chang) controllers. BMCs are particularly finicky and hard to drive and for a long time were only operable with Xlyte analog controllers or BMC controllers. These days, Infineons from EM3EV or Lyen (Ebikes SF) have a mod to allow them to handle these low inductance high rpm motors - 'standard' Infineons don't. So - if you have a generic Infineon, it probably won't work properly; if your controller is from Ebikes SF (Lyen) then it's okay and this is not the cause.

Other than that, I could only suggest that your phase and hall wiring is incorrect and you are running a 'false' positive. Here is a link to a 'known good' combo that matches this info from an old Ebikes SF web page:


Failing that, your best bet is to get in touch with Ilia - his support is outstanding and I'm sure he can lay out some options.
 
hello, thanks for the replays
so i have tried to change the cobinations to those advised to.
the motor spins much faster but there is new problem.
it seems like there is no torque , it can take me from standing , i upload a video to show the problem.
from stands to spins its squeaky

hope to have more solutions.

i do not have other controller or sensorless controller , i do not wish to work with sensorless or buy new controller.

thanks in advanced


http://youtu.be/dhpp1jZd_Ns
 
Kiriakos GR said:
My quick tip would be that the less noisy start up it would indicate proper wires sequence.

For in depth troubleshooting at the motor coils, I will suggest an simple Ohms measurement of its one winding.
If there much of difference in those three measurements? this hub needs to be replaced.
can you explain the test?
 
duh, car electrician?

follow tekletek's advice. the infineon has an oscillator that is too slow for switching the phases at the high rpm of these geared motors. richard did a wonderful analysis and there is a thread somewhere from several years ago explaining how he found out with the oscilloscope. like tek said, use the later model infineons as in the lyen's controller. BOL.
 
The fact that the motor barely self-starts and has little power seems to indicate a hall/phase issue. I'm also wondering if the controller is set to the wrong sensor angle.

At this point, it seems you've gone after all the easy fixes and need to grind out the hard stuff.

Questions:
  1. You indicated that you tested the halls - how did you do this?
  2. Did they alternate when the wheel was turned backward?
  3. Where did you get the controller?
  4. Is it used or dId you reprogram it?
    Here we are looking for sensor angle perhaps set incorrectly... should be 'auto' or '120deg'.
  5. Do you have a programming cable?
I think you need to methodically go through all 36 combinations of hall and phase connections. Theoretically, there are means to reverse rotation by switching a couple of leads and there should be multiple equivalent patterns that work and that represent a simple rotation of the colors, but I've done this quite a few times with BMCs and have more than once found only a single pattern that works properly and the 'reversing trick' works inconsistently. Why this happens eludes me, but that seems to just be part of the weirdness that is BMC and isn't the topic here - check all combos to be sure.

The first two posts in this short thread have techniques for safely testing the combos. Follow one and be very careful about the warnings regarding applying too much throttle and/or using safety fuses. The technique in the last post may not work reliably for the reasons I mentioned above.
 
I know, you said that you didn't want to get a new controller, but you now have a lot of messing about to do, which will probably end up with you finding out that you have the wrong controller for your motor. You can make things a lot easier by getting a KU123 controller from BMSBattery. They don't cost much and they're fully automatic for phase angle and phase hall sequence detection. You just connect them up and they figure it all out for themselves. The only drawback is that some of them have not had the main power traces reinforced, so, if you get one, you might want to open it to check, and add some solder or wire if they're thin.

http://www.bmsbattery.com/controller/364-universal-brushless-hub-motor-controller.html
 
Kiriakos GR said:
dnmun said:
duh, car electrician?

As long you are a hater of professionals repair man, you better stop following my step, i am a professional troubleshooter too.
When people having trouble the best advice is the most cost effective one.
And therefore your tiny experiences can not do much other than confusing people.

And save your self from the trouble from an attempt to prove your self in my eyes, because you are not capable to do that with a convincing way as long you are hiding your face.

you are weird.
 
Kiriakos GR said:
How can be wrong combination when all cables has colors ?

Sounds like you have a lot to learn about ebikes, based on that and many of your other posts on ES. Read around the forum for "phase / hall combo" and similar subjects, and you will see the problem--it is a VERY common one.
 
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