Calibike 48V 15ah battery

I am having some trouble with a battery pack from Calibike. I just purchased a 48V 15ah pack. This battery has two connectors, one charge port and a pack power, and a switch on it. I assume that the switch goes to the PCM. The pack shows 54.2V fully charged with the switch on and 49V with the switch off. The problem I am having is the controller does not want to turn on most of the time with this pack. When I use my Lipo 12S pack (no PCM), the controller works every time. I have tested this with two other bikes with the same result. I would like to know what troubleshooting steps I might take to get this pack operating consistently.

v/r,
rich

did you contact the rafeh guy who sells them?

I wrote Rafe an email about a week ago and I did not get a response back. I went back to his website today and tried again and he emailed me a phone number to contact him. He explained that the BMS has a known issue with being turned on with a load attached. He is going to email me with some suggested possible solutions, (either placing a switch in line or replacing the BMS).

i bot one of the 48V15Ah cali packs from a guy here on the sphere. when i measured cell voltages some of them were sitting at 4.22V so i decided to examine the BMS and discovered that the BMS i got did not have a balancing network on it.

so then rafe guy decided i did not know what i was talking about because he was an EE. pissed me off a lot so i have a low opinion of him.

anyway i finally got the heat shrink cut off the section that was enclosed in the heat shrink and found there is nothing there but some transistor switches with wires running to the various control spots on the PCM. there was no balancing network on the pcm at all. just missing parts.

i would recommend you expose the BMS on the end and start by measuring the cell voltages on all 13 channels while it is charging and post them up here and take a picture of your BMS and post it up here also.

i bot two small BMS from Bestechpower for the battery to replace it. called the D127v2 13S lipo which i intend to use on it. or i may try to repair the D167 16S lipo that hwy 89 sent me and test it on that battery yet.

i am sure we can get your battery to work ok again. the guy i bot mine from had dropped it and it ruptured a can in the corner. of course he decided he did not have to tell me that before he sold it. so now i am short one can on end of the first row/channel. so i have yet to buy another 2200mAh can and solder it in place too. so much stuff to do.

I purchased the Calibike battery and shipping was relatively quick. It came packed decently, just battery and charger no instructions. The weight of the battery is right at 9.82lbs.

PCM
View attachment 4

Side of pack exposed


Label


Top of Pack


Switches and connectors


It seems to output a decent amount of power. I will attach a power meter and test the capacity and voltage drop when I get a chance. The battery will not turn the bike on approximately 80% of the time. After a conversation with Rafe he suggested that this is an known issue with the PCM that it likes to be switched on prior to a load being placed on the battery. I don't care for the arcing that results from this. Rafe said that the PCM could be replaced or I can put in an inline fuse for a switch on the main power line. I suggested that I would like the PCM replaced and he kept pushing towards the fuse option. He sent me a link to purchase one on my own.

Here is the email link he sent:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251598706525?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
50 Amp In-Line Circuit Breaker Stereo/Audio/Car/RV 50A/50AMP Fuse 12V/24V/32V
US $7.99 New in Consumer Electronics, Vehicle Electronics & GPS, Car Audio & Video Installation
View on http://www.ebay.com

What do you think?

my BMS had no balancing circuit on it.

in your picture there is a sharp metal corner from the nickel strap spot welded to the paralleling strap and it runs long out over the end of that last can there on the left.

if that piece of metal cuts through the plastic next to it then the battery will short out on that row and make a mess. the metal is at the anode potential and the case is at ground.

dnmum, balancing is missing from your unit? Is it also missing from JoyRiddin's?

I was about to order this battery from calibikes. I don't know enough about batteries to know if I should hold off now. It sounds like i should reconsider?

no, his BMS is different from mine altogether. i think someone has posted a picture of a BMS from these packs and it did have a balancing network in the BMS.

i bot my cali pack used and the guy sold it to me without telling me he had dropped it so i have a crushed can in the corner i need to replace yet but i bot another 13S lipo BMS from Bestechpower for it. D127v2 15A continuous, 23A max.

i am gonna build a hybrid battery using some 8Ah nanotech pouches, 13S and each pack, the cali pack and nanotech pack will have their own small 13S BMS but i am gonna tie the two packs together at the cell level. so 2 BMS in parallel on a 13S 23Ah wide lipo/limno2 pack.

then i am gonna add a second pack in parallel made of 15S10Ah lifepo4 and i will hack a ping v2. BMS down to 15S to use to balance it.
problem will be with charging so i have to be able to disconnect the two packs at the drains of the BMSs to charge from the same charger up to 54.4V.

As i said previously the BMS uses fet based balancing network does not need resistors. The balancing network is in the BMS controller chip.

As far as the 18650 I use generic Chinese batteries that are screened for 2200 ma output. I hope that helps
Rafe

blah blah blah. i think oi know what a balancing network looks like but of course i am not an EE so what would i know.

Dmnun we need a pic of this bms of yours so as to see a bms without a balancing circuit please.
Rafeh 1 with chemistry nmc or nca ?

amberwolf said:

rafeh1 said:

As i said previously the BMS uses fet based balancing network does not need resistors. The balancing network is in the BMS controller chip.

Click to expand...

Do you mean it is a capacitive charge-transfer balancing network, that shuffles charge between cells?

What rate does it do this at?

Does it do more than one cell at a time, or does it sequentially (or otherwise) shift between cells?

As far as the 18650 I use generic Chinese batteries that are screened for 2200 ma output.

Click to expand...

Is that for continuous current or peak current of 2.2A (2200mA) each?

What capacity (Ah) do you get out of them at that current, if continuous?

If that's peak current, what is the continuous current, and what capacity do you get out of them at that continuous current?

Click to expand...

hi
Here is what i was able to dig up on the bms chip set
I went thru the BMS chip level schematic. The chip used as master controller in the BMS has a balancing network and does not need external resistors.

I tracked down the chip specs which are in Chinese along with a Chinese app note. I quote a mangled translation below:

"Meanwhile, SH367004 series chip integrates a charge balance function, temperature detection and disconnection detection function, to the greatest extent prolong the service life of rechargeable lithium battery pack"

http://5xts.com/read/3f2366002fced8030a08bbef.html

the app note is in Chinese right click and get google translate turn it into semi english.

In conclusion the Calibike BMS and most modern BMs use integrated circuit bms ICs which have charge balancing as part of the IC function.
rafeh1

I would like to know what cells are used ? Maybe NMC or NCA.

They are not nca.

What does generic Chinese cells mean. For a flashlight ? More info ? When I buy a battery number one is the cell being used.

the cells are screened for 2200 mah capacity
They are rated for 3C but our BMs only uses them at 2C.
The BMS chips are a family with different chipset/ pinouts for 13Sx7P pack

2200 mah * 7 in parallel = 15.4 Ah
4.2v * 13 in series = 54.6V

Thus a fully charged calibike 48v15 will show up as 54V and have capacity of 15.4 Amps hours.

We could use samsung cells which have 2800 mah capacity which is 25% better but the price difference is more than the 25% capacity so I decided to stay with the generic brand as it gives optimal performance for the price.

Optimal Bang for the buck. When Samsung prices trend down I will revisit this analyisis

Mine works nice. Should the button be on or off for charging. Should I unplug the motor from the controller while charging?

Off if it charges.
I always unplug battery when not in use.
I would put a recharge resistor inline to keep out the sparks.