muxus 3000 chugging ?

999zip999

999zip999

100 TW
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
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Dana Point So. Cal
I hooked up the motor to an em3ev 12fet.@ 80v & 40amps. This is the same controller I used with the em3ev muxus 9c clone I melted at 3200 watts.
It ran fine for 8mi. 3200w. I started up a small hill and it started chugging, Like a loose phase wires or ?
Put the ebike tester on it all tested good, halls, phase, throttle, the controller test showed 2 twin sets of leds one time around then stopped. I did the Jaterureka fet test, as probe for resistance between all controller phases and pos. B&G 10.42k Y 10.38k Then all three and neg. All 10.40k. Is this the problem ?
I then open the motor and pulled some phase wires thru and resolder to check off wires I cut in axle, plus checked halls again. It's good. ???
Plus did the turn the wheel backwards with the controller on, throttle off. No resistance.
My brain hurts.
 
999zip999 said:
the controller test showed 2 twin sets of leds one time around then stopped. I did the Jaterureka fet test, as probe for resistance between all controller phases and pos. B&G 10.42k Y 10.38k Then all three and neg. All 10.40k. Is this the problem ?
Click to expand...

Sounds like a controller issue ..might have been damaged during the motor meltdown(?)
Did any of the phase or hall wires short when you smoked the 9C clone while running it on this controller?
Have you popped the hood on the controller to have a look/smell yet?
Do you have a known good controller you can swap in?
 
Sounds like an intermittent hall effect sensor connection or something.
 
Try running it for a couple of miles in sensorless mode if your controller supports it, if it still does it then at least that rules he halls out.
 
My em3ev controller doesn't have a senerless mode. Beachcruzer has a senorless controller I can try if I can get a hold of him. Do the white 6 pin connectors have two different pin sizes ? It does seem like loose or different size pins, or is this just hope as it did run fine for 8mi..
What is the best test for halls from the controller. had tested with the ebike tester, but lights up two twin of leds sets a atime then rotates around just one time then lights ggo out. Why wouldn't the lights keep rotating hook up to the controller with power and throttle on ? Just one rotation ? This normal for tester ?
Plus it run fine on a motor stand just doesn't like it with my fat assk.
 
O.k. back at it test voltage at the controller.
Powered up. Testing hall plug.
Bk~red 4.390v
Bk~b. 3.323
Bk~g 3.324
Bk~y 3.324
Rd~b. 0.000
Rd~g. 0.000
Rd~y. 0.000
This doesn't change with throttle. So ? Shouldn't it change with throttling ?
 
Worked great for 8mi first ride. It's drawing 1.50 amp no load. Is that ok ? Plus hooked up a Lyen 9fet same chug chug, booth work but big same chug chug. Both controllers. Will try the 9fet and 2810 tomorrow. To see if I didn't take out it too.
 
if it is doing it with both controllers its probably certainly the halls that are faulty.
 
No, the voltage from each hall sensor should sweep 0-5V as the wheel is slowly rotated by hand.
 
Shouldn't it go 0~5 on the controller side with power and throttle on ?
Punxor I checked the halls with the ebike tester all three leds blinked.
 
Throttle has nothing to do with Hall sensor testing. Use this page and find Hall testing:

http://www.ebikes.ca/learn/troubleshooting.html
 
Ykick I was testing the controller with the throttle, thinking the controller side should go 0~5 with throttle on ? I'm testing controller and hub.
 
If you have tried it with two different controllers, and it does it with both that pretty much rules the controller out, you can always take the controller off and try it on another bike, this would rule it out 100% then, have to ruled your throttle out ?. Anything you can take off the bike and try on your friends bike I would try, just to rule them out. If everything checks out, if you can get hold of a controller that has a sensorless mode try that, if it works then, the only possible thing left it could be is faulty halls, possibly that are only failing when under load from the controller. For whatever reason they might be working find when spun slowly, but when spun fast they might be giving out. The only other thing I can think of is the magnets have come loose in your motor if its been overheated at all, this would cause the magnets to move when accelerating, and throwing the halls out of whack, but when spinning the motor manually would appear to be working normally.
 
I think I understand now. Throttle testing ~0-5V: http://www.ebikes.ca/documents/ThrottleTesting.pdf
 
999zip999 said:
Ykick I was testing the controller with the throttle, thinking the controller side should go 0~5 with throttle on ? I'm testing controller and hub.
Click to expand...

NO need to use the throttle. Merely turn the wheel by hand with the DVM probing the motor/controller Hall sensor connection as shown in this guide:

http://www.ebikes.ca/documents/HallSensorTestingFinal.pdf

A final test to determine if it's a problem in the motor would be to rig a small test circuit using a battery (5-12V) and resistor (roughly 10k) to stand-in for the controller 5V circuit. Rotate the wheel looking for 0-5V toggling on all 3 Hall sensor signal (Y/B/G) wires to ground (black).
 
Ykick I was testing the controller with my question. Plus tested hub with ebike tester and spun wheel all three led lit. Both halls and phase. Will try new hall pins and plug.
Littleskull99
wheel size 26in.
Battery 24s A123 20ah
Temp cool to touch.
 
999zip999 said:
It's drawing 1.50 amp no load. Is that ok ?
Click to expand...
(Oops - I missed the low current report in your earlier post...)
Ya - that sounds okay - or at least it doesn't sound Bad.

It also sounds like you have reasonable results from the ebike tester for the halls.
FWIW: Tester HowTo doc here.
The controller only runs the phase current LEDs around once or twice - then they go out - because it doesn't see any current on the shunt and stops trying.
This is normal - no worries.

  • I'm a little confused about the symptoms - I had assumed that it only cogs under load -
    or are you saying that once you hit that hill it now always cogs under all conditions?
If it only cogs under load, then this would seem to discount the 'bad hall' theory since that would be speed related, not load related, although a light load might tend to mask a speed-related signal drop out. I was thinking that as alternative explanation a bad hall/phase setup might conceivably run, but additional load might reveal the absence of the out-of-sync phase as cogging. Just a thought...

I would go after the low-hanging fruit and re-test the hall/phase setup. This is non-intrusive and will take the matter off the table if the experiment is unsuccessful. Although it's possible that the motor is defective in some fashion, I would be looking to my wiring error first before I went on to a failure in the motor. Just sayin'... :D
 
It always cloggs now under load, it runs fine on the bench. I mean will go down the road with a strong clogging like magnetic. I think it must be at the factory wire and pins on the hub. The muxus came with hall pins for a big white connector. Will redo the pins. I use em3ev controller that ran his muxus d.d. 350watt hub and worked fine for 8mi. on the muxus 3,000.
 
How did you wire the hall and phase wires, I just hooked up my controller and tested the motor with no load wired the same as a GM motor. Seems fine. Halls and phase both with b-b, g-y, and y-g.
 
No need to swap wires with em3ev controller as paul had did so inside the controller to match his muxus d.d. motors. Plus tried swapping phase wires. No load amp draw 1.50 amps. Plus worked great for 8 mi. I'm going down and getting out thh solder iron.
 
O.k. I put a 9fet I tried on the muxus 3,000 on my 2810 and it works fine. I replaced the hub connectors on the 3,000 and it still chugging. So I will make a wire adapter for the 12fet to see if it works on the 2810.
Then will open the 3,000 to look inside for a short or bad hall. All halls had checked out fine with ebike tester with spinning hub and open up and checked with a magnet on the 3,000. I had open the 3,000 to pull the wire thru the axle to rule out cut axle wire. Seams like a hall short or wire because it has some power on the road.
 
By "works fine" do you mean under load?

The only time I've had results like you mention was with a partially blown controller, ie some fets still alive on each phase high and low side. It was short lived and blew all the way though. Also, every time I've tried a small controller on a big motor, the controller didn't last long.

Try disconnecting everything else to make sure the problem isn't elsewhere. eg something loose on the ebrake, a CA setting problem, throttle problem, etc.

What does chugging mean anyway? Are you talking about the grumble/rattle/growl typical of 3 phase motor takeoffs under load, but it continues?
 
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