Controller with good PAS support for GNG mid drive

dusan

100 W
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Messages
153
Location
Slovakia
Hello,
does anybody know good 36V controller with precise PAS support? Probably with possibility to set PAS level, delay time and so on.
Currently I have stock GNG for mid drive with PAS sensor but it doesn't work well. There is some delay when starting and finishing. With 2kW it could be dangerous. Also stock controller works from time to time when pedaling.
My build http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=64844
Thanks
 
I recommend the S Series controller from BMSBattery. I use the S12S in PAS mode exclusively, without a throttle, and find it to be extremely responsive. With a 12-magnet PAS sensor, the controller will start to apply power within about 120 degrees of pedal rotation. And when I stop or pause pedaling, the cutout is immediate.
 
Hello Avitt,

Will this work together?

PAS--Pulse Padel Assistant Sensor With 12 PCS Magnets
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-parts/504-pas-pulse-padel-assistant-sensor-with-12-pcs-magnets-parts.html

S12S 500W Torque Simulation Sine Wave Controller
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/552-s12s-500w-torque-simulation-sine-wave-controller-ebike-kit.html

S-LCD3 LCD Meter for S-Series Controlers
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/670-s-lcd3-lcd-meter-for-s-series-controlers-ebike-kit.html

Or do you recommend some other configuration for brushless hall sensor motor (http://www.gngebike.com/450w-brushless-mud-guard) ?
Is there any way to set pedal assistance level without LCD?

Thanks
 
Some people have had a lot of trouble trying to use S12S and Conhismotor controllers with GNG. There was a suggestion that the GNG has 60 deg phase angle. IIRC the guy got his S12S working, but he spent a lot of time playing with the advanced settings.
 
Thank you d8veh,
Could you recommend some another controller?
Is it better to think about DIY version with 12 PAS sensors?
I saw electric scheme of DIY controller for hub motor. If similar for mid (GNG 1.1/36V) , when properly tuned, I would stay with only PAS without any throttle / cc.
What you mean by advanced setting? I guess, that Conish motor controller is not programmable.
 
The controllers that have LCDs have parameters that you can set. There's normally basic ones like wheel diameter, time, km/miles etc. After that, there's advanced parameters that affect how the controller behaves. You have to download the manual for the LCD on the BMSB site to see what it can do.

I only used the OEM controllers with my GNGs plus one Conhismotor one. Somebody tried using the same Conhismotor one as me, which didn't work at all for him, neither did a replacement one.
 
Thanks d8veh,
I found some issues related to S12S 60 vs 120 degrees motor phases.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=60938&p=988125#p988125

Would you mind to describe wiring between Conhismotor controller and GNG? Was it straight forward?
You also mentioned, you were able to wire S12S but it seems, it was hub motor.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=53108#p790166
 
All controllers have simple wiring with standard connectors. There's nothing to explain. Obviously, you have to check that the hall, PAS and throttle wires match on each side of the connectors. The speed display on the Conhismotor one picks up the speed from the motor, so is totally wrong when you connect a crank motor.
 
d8veh, how this PAS support from Conhismotor works, I mean comfort and reliability?
What's delay between start and stop when pedaling /stop pedaling?
How about delivered power to motor? Is it somehow predictable and well suited for rider?
 
The Conhismotor controller uses algorithms based on speed. The selectable levels are target speeds. They're like 5 throttle settings from low to high. When you pedal, the controller gets the signal to give power. The amount of power depends on the difference between your actual speed and the target speed - the same as the throttle. The delay between pedalling and getting power is not significant. I thought that this controller is a lot better than the GNG one. When using it with the GNG, the speed control works with the crank speed, not the bike speed, so every time you change up a gear, you get another surge of power until the crank speed matches the target speed. It takes a bit of practice to get your head around what's going on. A controller that gives current control (rather than speed control) would be much better. The S12S can be set to current control or speed control.
 
It seems, Conhismotor has improved their controller, specifically for PAS functionality. If I understood it correctly, controller simulate torque sensor based on crank and wheel cadence.

From Jason
It is totally 5 speed level PAS, and it is torque sensor simulated, so only when you ride it you can feel different speed. If you try it without load, it is same. This is torque sensor simulated PAS. And the speed will be added very smoothly.

At the end, it probably means new Conhismotor controllers manage current rather than speed in case of PAS.
http://www.conhismotor.com/ProductShow.asp?id=319
 
I received Conhismotor controller but not sure with wire diagram

1 - blue and black, shorted -> ?
2 - red, white and black -> (speed sensor) ?
3 - yellow and black -> (electric key) ?
4 - blue, black and red -> (throttle) ?
5 - black and yellow - > ?
6 - yellow and black, twice -> (ebrakes) ?

Any suggestions? Thanks
 
Best to ask the supplier, but my reckoning is that red/black/blue is the PAS, red/black/white is the throttle, red/black yellow is the speed sensor, red/pink is the key switch, yellow/black is probably lights activated by the LCD. You can test for that. Blue loop is probably cruise control - best disconnected unless you like surprises.
 
I quickly received wiring diagram from Conhismotor.
 

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I was trying to get controller work but only thing, it was somehow working was walking mode. With throttle or down button I was able only run walking mode. In case of throttle, walking mode was running only few seconds.
Second problem was, motor didn't work properly. It was like only two phases were plugged but there were everything plugged, battery, hall sensors, throttle, motor phases and lcd.
After some time of running motor in walking mode , controller started to overheating, so I disconnected it.
Wiring
IMG_20150129_194238_web.jpg
Stock controller
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Conhismotor controller
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There was a guy trying to get the S12S controller working with the GNG. I think that he figured out the motor has a 60 deg phase angle. Can anybody confirm that? There may be a setting in your new controller for that.
 
They have sent me for free another controller (max 25A), more powerful. They told me, my current controller (15A) was not enough powerful for GNG.
 

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I've installed new Conhismotor controller with throttle only. It works much better, there is not such power as my modded stock, for sure, wattmeter seems accurate. I had cruise control turn on, so after
while it switched to cruise.
Edit : concerning throttle, I measured only 3.8V at full throttle
l[youtube]XPp2vyEKazk[/youtube]
 
Hello, I tested new 15A rated Conhismotor motor today. It works fine but doesn't display correct speed.
I installed speed sensor to white 3 pin connector as state in wiring diagram. I mounted speed sensor on right side of front fork. I set 26" wheel size.
When spinning it shows non sense numbers and when not spinning only riding, it shows zero speed.
Seems like wrong speed value is based on crank speed or motor Hall sensors.
Does anybody know how to test speed Hall sensor? I plugged it into controller, there was 4.4V between red and black but on white signal wire I always measured only 20mV, when magnet was close or even not.
 

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Finally, I did it working.
There is another settings accessed after general settings. When I changed parameter P2 to 1, controller start receiving signal from speed sensor.

For additional info look at
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=49149
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=56310&p=849681#p847978

This is response from Jason,
Please try to check some setting:
1. After you turn on the LCD display, within 5 seconds, please kindly press "Up" and "Down" at same time about 2 seconds, then you will enter standard setting.
1). Max. speed setting
2). Wheel size setting: please kindly check this one, whether you set 26"
3). Km or miles option: please kindly check whether you choose km.

Save and then press "Up" and "Down" together about 2 seconds enter P setting:
P1 is motor characteristic parameter setting mode. P1 = motor gear reduction ratio×number of rotor magnet pieces, just rounding if there’s any decimal.
P2 is wheel speed pulse signal setting mode. If wheel generated 1 pulse signal by a revolution, P2 should be set as 1. If wheel generated 6 pulse signals by a revolution, P2
should be set as 6. If users didn’t configure the pulse signal system, and then P2 parameter setting can be 0.


I would like to add my first impression. It's really great controller or maybe idea to control current /power. Riding on level 1 feed motor up to 3-4 Amps, level 2 up to 5-6Amps and so on.
You can really save battery if you want or use level 5 up to 20-25Amps to ride like snow scooter.
PAS sensor works fine, there is some small delay, up to 0.5s but it's OK, better than ebrakes.

I would recommend this controller to any who prefer pedelec style. I'm using it with chain GNG 1.1 mid drive and feel motor support from 50W.

I would like to say thank you for d8veh advices and to Jason from Conhismotor for great support.
 

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  • LCD03_User_Manual.pdf
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