Programming an Infineon 12 fet 4110 - settings help please

Hi, I am finally into the final stages of my DH comp build. I bought an infineon 12 fet 4110 controller from EM3EV and need some help programming it.

I installed XPD and it is working. I did a test program at 10s because I had a 36v battery laying around and the xpd and controller interfaced fine and it ran.

I have just finished building a 98 cell 14s 7p battery using Samsung 18650 29E cells. 58v and around 20ah.

Here is the question. I am running a single MAC 6T at the moment (may upgrade to dual MACs later if needed) so what Amps should I set this up for? 20, 25, or 30. Here is what I want: I want to be able to cruise for a long time without over heating (in the summer as well). I think 40a might be too much from a heat stand point. There are some hills but there is only one that is fairly steep and long.

Second question. I have read that the phase amps can (should?) be significantly higher - perhaps 3 times the battery amps. So should I be running phase amps at between 75 to 90 amps depending on the suggested battery amps.

Thanks a lot. I am hoping to hear from some of you who know about this because I sure don't.

first of all i can say that the 12fet controller is more than capable to do what you want. even the 9fet is sufficient.
when i had the 8t and 10t in the back wheel @48v i had it set to 35a battery and 110a phase. this was for mountain biking and this led to stripped gears and burnt halls. of course this happened on very steep slopes and quite low speed.
if you use it on the road it may survive longer.
i don't think that anything above 1500w is gonna give you much reliability. your gears will live longer if you don't overdo it with phase amp.
my middrive runs fine now at 2200w and i expect it to live long. but there are two big differences: the motor is not in the rear wheel so it decoupled from the wheel and it's cooled much better because thewindings have a direct contact to the big heat sink.

so would 25a battery and 75phase be a good choice? this is not an off road bike although I will go on some gravel trails but no jumps or anything like that.

Can someone explain why the 2 settings are different? Is it because there are 3 phase wires? Like I said, I really have no clue.

Do you have the upgraded version of the MAC with thermistor installed? This will help you find the sweet spot. I think 25a and something between 50-75a for phase would be a good start.
There are many threads abut battery vs phase. I'm on my phone so typing is a pita. Pls try googling it. If you can't find it I will post it.

Thanks izeman. Unfortunately my MAC is the older version. While I had it apart to fix a hall sensor, I did a few upgrades. before I figured out that it was a hall, I thought the stuttering was due to a bad clutch so I bought a new one. While it was apart, I changed all 3 hall sensors, the clutch and installed one of lyen's metal gears. It was very loud with the metal gear so I disassembled it again and let the main gear sit in a bath of zymol for a few days and I used the rest of the zymol in a pan with the metal gear in it and boiled them, then let it simmer for a bit. Sounds like a recipe - doesn't it? The reason I tried this is that I notice that my engines run a lot quieter with the zymol added to the oil. After I put it back together, it was noticeably quieter and it should quiet down a bit more as it breaks in from what I have read.

I will try the settings that you suggested as a starting point and give it a whirl. I will also google the battery vs. phase current. Thank you

EDIT:

Izeman, your suggested setting work very well. At 14s the bike runs at 36 mph top speed but there was a bit of wind in my face. I have the 3 speed switch and programmed that at 40% for setting 3 and on that setting the bike will do 19mph which right where I wanted it.

When I hit a bump, the motor started jerking and then eventually it barely put out any power at all. With the metal gear, I figured stripped gears were unlikely but I was worried it was the clutch. It turned out to be the black hall wire. it had broken loose from the clip; a quick solder job and it was as good as new.

Thanks again for your help. If I can help you out in the future, please don't hesitate to pm me.

I found 40amps 55v. Was to much for that geared motor, I it at 28amp. Still I fill to upper or maybe a high, but not higher. It depends on hills ect.

Maybe dumb question. What is zymol ?

All I could fine was a wax product.

Dan

You don't want to pump more than 1500 watts into the MAC, so 1500/48 = 30 amps. Up to 35 amps, but not higher. Phase no more than 90 amps. Double check the phase wires gauge & connectors to handle that - some will say 8-10 gauge. Like izeman's suggestion using the thermistor to find the sweet spot. I'll give that a go myself.

arkmundi said:

You don't want to pump more than 1500 watts into the MAC, so 1500/48 = 30 amps. Up to 35 amps, but not higher. Phase no more than 90 amps. Double check the phase wires gauge & connectors to handle that - some will say 8-10 gauge. Like izeman's suggestion using the thermistor to find the sweet spot. I'll give that a go myself.

Click to expand...

he's running a slightly higher voltage 58v setup. so 25a is the max i would say, but really depending on rider's weight, steepness of hills, wind etc even that can be too much. going flat it should be no issue.
and as you said: good phase wires will help. so if you think about installing a temp sensor (a must in my eyes, as touching the outer shell/case of those geared motors says nothing about the heat inside) just do it right and upgrade the phase wires as well. it's a tough job though. the hollow axle doesn't allow really thick wires to pass through. so you just can keep those wires as short as possible and use thicker wire (10awg is more than enough for 25a, i would say 12awg can do fine as well) and high quality connectors. my 4mm bullets got so hot that the insulation did melt (this was with 110a phase at 48v). i use 5.5mm bullets now and everything's fine.

I have the upgraded MAC 10T, so has the thermistor. Just have not invested in a cycle analyst as yet, so no way to see the temp. A next year kind of project, as I do want to get a cycle analyst. In part, was putting that off until v.3 is out of beta-testing mode.

DAND214 said:

Maybe dumb question. What is zymol ?

All I could fine was a wax product.

Dan

Click to expand...

Zymol is an engine oil additive similar to Slick 50 that actually soaks into the pours of the metal so there is less friction. To do this, the metal must get hot. In an engine, this isn't an issue but I just did it to reduce friction of the metal replacement gear that was in the MAC. Since it wasn't in an engine, I cooked it on the stove. It actually worked but the metal gear was still louder than the nylon gears.

I can't help you but perhaps you can help me. I've bought an infineon 3077 12fet and am in the process of building a new 7P13S battery to be matched with a MAC10T. In testing, the motor pulled over 50kph (on a different controller provided by Aidewise, the local motor supplier). The legal maximum is 45kph so above 50kph on charged batteries is perfect. I've now plugged the controller to my PC using the cable supplied and of course nothing happens

Do I need to have the controller connected up including to the battery in order to prgram ? Do I need some software of some sort ? -where would it come from ?

Mike

first question: no
second question: sorry but that's a stupid question. how would you program something w/o a program!?
third question: google e-s for xpd or keywin

See a few XPD notes here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63524&p=978486#p978486

If you got it with the MAC from Paul. you can get the program from him. It should be in your order reciept on line.
Have you ridden it or just in the air for the speed?

Dan

Unfortunately, the program that Paul provides is a MS Windows app. I and many of us, being the smart people we are, don't use that OS, but some flavor of Linux instead. XPD runs just fine on Linux, is open-source and just plainly a better app.

arkmundi said:

Unfortunately, the program that Paul provides is a MS Windows app. I and many of us, being the smart people we are, don't use that OS, but some flavor of Linux instead. XPD runs just fine on Linux, is open-source and just plainly a better app.

Click to expand...

I'm sure glad that some or you are that smart.
Whare else would we learn?

Dan

damn. i use microsoft windows, mac osx, linux debian and redhat. am i smarter now? or just plain stupid? or nothing of both? :lol:

Bunch of smart alecs. Just saying that MS-OS is least good. I use all open-source software and am running Ubuntu on my Dell laptop. Sure all you guys are smarter than I. Lot of people in the world get MS-OS on the machine they buy and never think about, see or give themselves opportunity for an open-source option. Pointing out that if in my situation, the app Paul provides doesn't work so good and the XPD does.

xpd took a while to make it work on linux afair.

Not unusual for apps to appear on MS-OS first and then are ported to linux. Best open-source are coded in a manner that can be compiled/used on any OS. If there is low demand for an app, like XPD, and its just one guy making his code available, it can take time.

arkmundi wrote,

Click to expand...

Bunch of smart alecs.

Click to expand...

I wasn't bitchin when I posted what I said. Take a compliment when someone gives you one(damit)

Dan

I just got an Infineon and a CAV3.

Do I need to program the Infineon at all, or do I only need to program the CAV3?

Leave the controller program alone till you get the CA programed.
You might like the controller the way it is.

Dan

Anyone looking for a CAv3. Like to get a V2 2.3+ plug in or SA with speed sensor.
V3 is like new only used to test batteries never mounted it's a DP-s

I have a CA 2.3 dps from lyen. Do you want to trade?