Bought a new controller. Can't get it to work. -SOLVED

Pinesal

100 W
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
205
Location
Portland, Or
It's a 48v, 600 watt motor. the bike is a X-treme xb-610 (http://www.x-tremescooters.com/electric_bicycles/xb610/xb610.html), I know it's not the typical form of a bicycle but it uses the same kinds of parts. The NEW controller is 48v 1000 watts. I have no information about the old controller other than that it was the stock controller that came with the bike and some info about it is on the diagram.

I bought this one on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/271745932184

It's not an exact match but I thought I could make it work. There are a few things I took an educated guess about but it doesn't seem to be working. I have a wire diagram of my bike below.

The first problem is the throttle. My bike has four wires going to the throttle but the new controller has 3. I have looked this up and the fourth wire is usually for a power indicator, but my bike never had a power indicator, so I don't know what it's for or which three I am REALLY supposed to hook up and the colors also don't match up so that is throwing me off. I have a Green Black and Red on the controller and I have Pink Gray and Green (shown as black in the diagram?)

The other problem is the HALL sensor cables vs the LCD cable, they are both five cable with the exact same coloration. One of the connecters perfecty fits the hall sensor connector for the bike so I assumed that was it but I have no other reason to believe so.

The last think is the power, the new controller has a thick black and and a thick red cable but on the bike side, the there is another smaller white cable that accompanies the thick red one the original controller had a small orange cable the connected to the white cable. The diagram shows that it's part of the on/off switch. This may in fact be my problem but I wouldn't know where to hook up this white wire because the new controller doesn't have a equivalent.

If it makes any difference, when I did switch the bike ON the battery indicator showed a FULL battery.

xb610%20wire%20diagram.png
 
How about some info on the bike, motor and the original controller? Is it a production ebike, or a kit?

I would guess your hall connection is correct. Halls typically have 6-pin Molex connectors, and the motor is almost always the Male side, and the controller is the female side.

You may need to try various combinations of halls and phase wiring to find the correct match. There are 36 different possibilities, although you can usually find the correct one wihtout trying all 36 possibilities.
 
999zip999 said:
More information. What type of bike, motor, throttle, and old controller ect.

It's a 48v, 600 watt motor. the bike is a X-treme xb-610 (http://www.x-tremescooters.com/electric_bicycles/xb610/xb610.html), I know it's not the typical form of a bicycle but it uses the same kinds of parts. The NEW controller is 48v 1000 watts. I have no information about the old controller other than that it was the stock controller that came with the bike and some info about it is on the diagram.
 
Here is a hunch, the blue wire may be providing regenerative braking. So if that wire is not connected would that cause the motor to not spin? Where could I reconnect that wire?
 
The white wire from the switch lock is your ignition. That should tap into the Battery Positive (Red) wire.
You will probably need to totally rewire the throttle connector, as it's probably not the same connector as your bike. You will have to ditch the blue wire in the throttle harness, and you will lose your tail light.

The critical connections to make the motor work are:
Battery Wires (Black & Red)
Ignition (white on your bike from the kew switch, and probably small red on the controller)
Phase WIres (Green, Blue, Yellow)
Hall Sensor Wires (Red, Black, Green, Blue, Yellow)
Throttle (Black, Gray & Pink, which wIll mate with the controller's Black/Green/Red throttle connector)
Ebrakes. (Black & Yellow from the brake lever.)

Everything else (Lights, regen, displays, etc.) is a crap-shoot with the new controller.
 
teslanv said:
The white wire from the switch lock is your ignition. That should tap into the Battery Positive (Red) wire.
You will probably need to totally rewire the throttle connector, as it's probably not the same connector as your bike. You will have to ditch the blue wire in the throttle harness, and you will lose your tail light.

The critical connections to make the motor work are:
Battery Wires (Black & Red)
Ignition (white on your bike from the kew switch, and probably small red on the controller)
Phase WIres (Green, Blue, Yellow)
Hall Sensor Wires (Red, Black, Green, Blue, Yellow)
Throttle (Black, Gray & Pink, which wIll mate with the controller's Black/Green/Red throttle connector)
Ebrakes. (Black & Yellow from the brake lever.)

Everything else (Lights, regen, displays, etc.) is a crap-shoot with the new controller.

Battery Wires (Black & Red)
CHECK!

Ignition (white on your bike from the kew switch, and probably small red on the controller)
No single red wire on the controller, there is a plug consisting of a black and red

Phase WIres (Green, Blue, Yellow)
CHECK!

Hall Sensor Wires (Red, Black, Green, Blue, Yellow)
CHECK! (probably)

Throttle (Black, Gray & Pink, which wIll mate with the controller's Black/Green/Red throttle connector)
Still looking into this.

Ebrakes. (Black & Yellow from the brake lever.)
Now this is news to me. I don't have a back and yellow wire at the end of the cluster. It may move from connector to connector and change color along the way. I can't figure out from the diagram where they would end up.

On a side note, the lights and blinkers and even the break light works without the controller. it's appears to be an independent 12 volt circuit.
 
Pinesal said:
Battery Wires (Black & Red)
CHECK!

Ignition (white on your bike from the kew switch, and probably small red on the controller)
No single red wire on the controller, there is a plug consisting of a black and red
Just plug the white wire from the key switch directly to the Battery Positive. (Red)
Phase WIres (Green, Blue, Yellow)
CHECK!

Hall Sensor Wires (Red, Black, Green, Blue, Yellow)
CHECK! (probably)

As I mentioned before, the phase & halls combinations may not match up. You'll have to do the 36-step dance...

Throttle (Black, Gray & Pink, which wIll mate with the controller's Black/Green/Red throttle connector)
Still looking into this.

Ebrakes. (Black & Yellow from the brake lever.)
Now this is news to me. I don't have a back and yellow wire at the end of the cluster. It may move from connector to connector and change color along the way. I can't figure out from the diagram where they would end up.

Check continuity with a multimeter to trace the black & yellow wires back to the connectors.

On a side note, the lights and blinkers and even the break light works without the controller. it's appears to be an independent 12 volt circuit.

Lucky you. :)
 
teslanv said:
Pinesal said:
Battery Wires (Black & Red)
CHECK!

Ignition (white on your bike from the kew switch, and probably small red on the controller)
No single red wire on the controller, there is a plug consisting of a black and red
Just plug the white wire from the key switch directly to the Battery Positive. (Red)
Phase WIres (Green, Blue, Yellow)
CHECK!

Hall Sensor Wires (Red, Black, Green, Blue, Yellow)
CHECK! (probably)

As I mentioned before, the phase & halls combinations may not match up. You'll have to do the 36-step dance...

Throttle (Black, Gray & Pink, which wIll mate with the controller's Black/Green/Red throttle connector)
Still looking into this.

Ebrakes. (Black & Yellow from the brake lever.)
Now this is news to me. I don't have a back and yellow wire at the end of the cluster. It may move from connector to connector and change color along the way. I can't figure out from the diagram where they would end up.

Check continuity with a multimeter to trace the black & yellow wires back to the connectors.

On a side note, the lights and blinkers and even the break light works without the controller. it's appears to be an independent 12 volt circuit.

Lucky you. :)


Thanks this is tremendously helpful. They daylight is gone so work on the bike will have to wait until tomorrow.
 
After studying the wire diagram for a long time. I feel like that BLUE wire that was pared with the throttle must be the ebrake. Becuase it's the only wire that goes from the brake back to the controller. It seems to be paired paired with a black wire that eventually goes back to the main black negative wire to the battery

So on the new controller, I clearly have two sets of brake connectors each with two wires that combine into two wires before it hits the controller. There is a purple and black wire. Does it makes sense to connect that blue wire on the bike to the purple wire on the break plug coming from the controller and the black wire to the black wire coming out of the brakes?

EDIT. actually, I wouldn't have to connect anything to the black wire because it already connects to the negative battery wire later on in the diagram. Does this sound logical?

Also just so I am clear, the motor absolutely will not function if that brake wire isn't hooked up?
 
The motor will function without the brake connected, but it is quite unsafe to do so.
Yes, you might try connecting the blue wire from the break to the purple wire from the controller.
 
teslanv said:
The motor will function without the brake connected, but it is quite unsafe to do so.
Yes, you might try connecting the blue wire from the break to the purple wire from the controller.

OK thanks for that info.

One thing has been bothering me...

teslanv said:
Pinesal said:
Battery Wires (Black & Red)
CHECK!

Ignition (white on your bike from the kew switch, and probably small red on the controller)
No single red wire on the controller, there is a plug consisting of a black and red
Just plug the white wire from the key switch directly to the Battery Positive. (Red)
What would mean that both switch positions are connected to the red wire. Wouldn't that create a switch that was always "ON"?
 
Yes, you are correct. The orange wire from the controller requires a switched connection to battery positive. Since you have a new controller, no orange wire exists. Usually the controller has a small red wire for the ignition. If yours doesn't, then perhaps the controller has a switch on the housing somewhere?
 
There is no switch of any kind on the controller box.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/QTkAAMXQh8NTck9M/$_57.JPG

Here is a pretty good picture of what I have. And a description from the ad

Controller has following input/outputs;
3 wire throttle
3 wire motor power
5 wire hall sensor
3 wire pedal assist
5 wire LCD/LED
2 wire battery connection
2 wire brake lever x2
3 wire speed sensor (350w controllers only)

There is an extra red and black wired connection that isn't listed also not in the picture.
 
I've just reread your first post, where there's something worrying me. There's two connectors with 5 wires the same colour. The flat one is for the LCD. The controller won't work properly without the LCD. The other one is for the motor hall sensors. Some motors have the flat connector for hall sensors. If you plugged in your flat one to the motor, you will have damaged the hall sensors. Which one did you plug into the motor?

If you don't have the LCD, you can still test the controller by bridging the blue and red wires in that flat 5-way connector. The LCD has the switch to switch on the controller, which it does through those two wires. The black is ground and the other two are for data communication (tx, rx). Without the LCD, the controller will default to some basic settings, which might limit the performance, like PAS level 1 and 6km/h throttle. It depends on the software in the controller.

Do you have the LCD?
 
d8veh said:
I've just reread your first post, where there's something worrying me. There's two connectors with 5 wires the same colour. The flat one is for the LCD. The controller won't work properly without the LCD. The other one is for the motor hall sensors. Some motors have the flat connector for hall sensors. If you plugged in your flat one to the motor, you will have damaged the hall sensors. Which one did you plug into the motor?

If you don't have the LCD, you can still test the controller by bridging the blue and red wires in that flat 5-way connector. The LCD has the switch to switch on the controller, which it does through those two wires. The black is ground and the other two are for data communication (tx, rx). Without the LCD, the controller will default to some basic settings, which might limit the performance, like PAS level 1 and 6km/h throttle. It depends on the software in the controller.

Do you have the LCD?

I do not have an lcd. I thought the lcd was optional.

I plugged the hall sensors into the square plug (not the flat one) because it was an exact match for the hall sensor connector coming from the motor.

NOTE; I just got a reply from the seller of the controller telling me that the red/white/black connector is the throttle, I was using the red/green/black so it was doing it wrong. I also just asked them if the lcd was required. Well see what they say.

EDIT: got a reply already:
"No, you don't need an LCD or LED with this controller, all you need to do is short red and blue wires on the small rectangular connector, and the kit will power on as long as you keep them shorted. "

Lucky the red and blue are right next to each other I bet a jumper from an old motherboard would fit right on there.
 
That's a relief that you used the right connector for the hall sensors be ause the red one in the flat connector carries battery voltage. I think that you'll find that it works, but it might be limited on power. Obviously, ther'll be a problem with the PAS because you can't select power levels.
 
Since I going to bridge the red and blue in the lcd connector, do I still have to connect the white wire from the key switch to the red battery cable?
 
Probably not. It might be the opposite, that it switches off.

When you join the red and blue wires, check whether you have 5v between the red and black on the throttle connector. That will tell you if the controller is switched on.
 
I have a question about matching up the hall sensor wires. I found a spreadsheet on this forum with all the combinations except it doesn't include the red and black wire on the hall sensor, only the three other colors. Do I leave the red and black connected and just switch around the other colored wires or do I need to add the black and red to the mix?
 
Pinesal said:
I have a question about matching up the hall sensor wires. I found a spreadsheet on this forum with all the combinations except it doesn't include the red and black wire on the hall sensor, only the three other colors. Do I leave the red and black connected and just switch around the other colored wires or do I need to add the black and red to the mix?

Yes, Red and black are always the same, and should match up. You are just trying different combinations of the blue, green and yellow hall wires and phase wires.
 
if you do not know the proper phase and hall sensor wire connections and have to test all possibilities then you need to use a wattmeter to measure the current flowing to the controller. that should be in the stickie.
 
dnmun said:
if you do not know the proper phase and hall sensor wire connections and have to test all possibilities then you need to use a wattmeter to measure the current flowing to the controller. that should be in the stickie.

I just got a Watt meter for the purpose of measuring ah of my battery. What reading am I looking for on the hall and phase wires?
 
The throttle is at 4.2 v

Is it supposed to change when you turn the throttle?

EDIT: I looked this up and I tested the green/black wire and no throttle gave me about .8v and full gave me about .3v

Does this mean it's working?


I just had a breakthrough! If I pull the throttle and turn the wheel, it starts to turn kind of but is all clunky and messed up. I know this this is just bad timing of the magnets inside the motor. This is great!

EDIT 2: I am going though the 36 possible wire configurations and one thing is bothering me. Sometimes I'll find a combo that seems to work pretty well but the bike always stops accelerating after holding the throttle for a few seconds. Even if I just turn slightly, it will go slow for a few seconds then lose power. Is that s symptom of incorrect phase/hall wires or is that something else?

EDIT 3: OK I tried all 36 combinations an none of them seemed "perfect" there were some that felt ok but the throttle would cut out on every single one of them.

EDIT 4: I am still not sure if I plugged the throttle in correctly, I may have plugged it into the pedal assist. Could the throttle, act this way if I plugged it into the pedal assist?
 
Is your battery fully charged ? What is it voltage ? Lvc maybe. Please just use a little throttle. Don't twrist the throttle al the way to help it if it doesn't work. Don't see if you plugged it in wrong it would work at all. But maybe someone could chime in for you. Check all your connectors. Your no load amp draw should be .68 amp or something low if correct.
 
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