onemorejoltwarden
100 W
Yescom\xcceries 800w/36v rear new install
800w/36v rear new installation in 1997 GT Talera steel frame mountain bike.
SUMMARIZED ORIGINAL POST IN EDITS see later posts for thrilling conclusion
This package sits in the middle of the $175-$240 price range for entry level 500-1000w kits.
I paid $214, and a week later they listed it for $202 free shipping on both.
from
http://www.ebay.com/itm/36V800W-26-Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-Motor-Kit-PAS-Cycling-Hub-Conversion-Kit
Xcceries is a US vendor for http://www.cnebikes.com/index.asp in LA
It required special tools and expertise or assistance to install. None of the stuff is particularly expensive, but but adds up and then the "cheap" kit is much less cheap.
There is probably better value in the kits at the ends of their price range.
The Accessories likely not to be used for long, but are decent.
Bag is 8x8x16 and, uh, patulous.
Rack stout, but heavy.
Several vendors carry near identical kids, presumably sort of an importer's package from larger interest. (CNEbikes)
As I perused components, it looks like packing up kits like this is a common business . Think Michael Dell and his dorm room 1985.
Prior (old ringstyle) motors looked like Conhismotor, this motor case style is not on their site and looks like a 9continent.
again ,Yescomusa/Xceceries is a vendor not a brand .
Other than the Kv it is hard to get information that differentiates between the different motors that are carried.
What they use to determine motor wattage is unclear , and I know to be a subject of lively debate.
Again other than Kv I am not sure what the difference is between their 500, 800, and1000 W motors.
I guess it takes a watt meter to really get anything useful.
IS this only a reflection of the controller rating. (?)
It was well packed, well presented in the box.
Controller was connected to peripherals which assisted orientation in install, which was mostly straightforward.
Documentation the same as available online, a vague cartoon book with lots of misspellings and Chinglish grammar.
No spec sheet. features like PAS take some serious sleuthing to understand.
Controller wiring pic did not show my version
Generally I started out impressed by the product.
CONCERNS WITH THE INITIAL INSTALL:
Wheel was very round and true. Had a nice rim strip in place.
12Ga Spokes were quite unevenly tensioned, many frankly loose, and the heads would rotate in the hub holes.
Thin hub flanges need spoke washer, big time, to support the spoke. After a short ride the wheel wobbled , popped and whined from loose spokes.
Hub was not dished and had a 10 mm offset towards non-drive side, a problem for my rim brakes.
Drive side spokes took 3 1/2 full turns to tension and dish, fortunately they had threads available to use.
In fact on inspection the spokes were not deep in the nipples, many had threads showing from the hub side of the nipple.
Marked nipple to spoke angulation is common on my wheel.
It uses 160mm 12ga black spokes, which may be hard to source, if they break.
PLAN ON DISHING AND SPOKE ADJUSTMENT. REQUIRES 12GA (0.156 in) SPOKE wrench, which is not commonly available locally.
This is not just tightening a few spokes.
PAS/Cruise not well documented with SAFETY ISSUE see below
The hub did not have tubular axle spacers similar to those shown in wesnewell's pictures,
though this may be a function of the 1000W hub or conhismotor looking ringed units.
132.9 OLD fit dropouts well, a basic WIDTH.
BUT long offset for hub disc mount rules out unmodified use of even a140mm disc, due to lack of frame clearance in my install.
Would require spreading frame substantially to fit a rear disc.
Rim is rim brake compatable.
ALSO Drive side had a washer keyed for the axle that was inboard of the "Torque/tab washer”
The keyed washer is sort of like a C-washer but without a cutout.
This required removal of the hall sensor plug to replace on the outside of the torque/tab washer. This was not easy , as the parts are fragile (plug , pins, wires, all)
Placing these washers inboard of the dropout would also require spreading of the chain stays, though minimally.
Wesnewel ,who runs more powerful overvolting, spreads the frame and uses inboard lock nuts,
rather than the shallow axle shelf to anchor the axle, and dispenses with torque arms as an option.
This might be a bigger issue if not addressed.
My impression is the tabbed/torque washer needs to be tight and in place, and no inboard washer is required.
Freewheel is as loud as the motor) ,coarse, a bit more play than it needs , but probably within spec.
Mine needed a spacer to allow rear derailleur to clear the hub motor body.
This was problematic as Freewheel tools to fit the oversize axle are a special order or require drilling out a tools steel standard tool.
Make sure your dropout is deep enough to seat the 14mm axle properly.
If you need to file the dropout a bit to go deeper, go slowly to insure a snug fit.
A loose dropout will cause big problems later.
Mine required filing to seat fully.
TOOLS NEEDED : 21mm wrench,
12ga Spokewrench, truingstand, or substitute.
Ability to dish , true and tension a wheel.
Freewheel tool for 14mm axle,
files round and flat for dropouts,
crank puller for PAS, glue for PAS hall sensor attachment,
jewelers screwdrivers and very fine hemostats for hall wire plug pin removal
DETAILS of kit
Controller : KW36ZWSM, 26 amp, 36v, min volt 30~1 152mmx83mmx40mm
?http://www.szktdz.com/en/news_show.php?article_id=352 12FET
has several plugs unused by the system that I would like to see if they can be used for other features.
Manual has plug outs that don't correspond to controller. Wiring diagram is unavailable.
?? I was unable to determine if the LCD model controller fails, if not connected to LCD, or is that just an impression given by the conhismotor controller page. ?
It is needed for initial set up
PAS 5 magnets, with remote “cruise control” speed adjuster, generic looks like the conhismotor pack
I have the "Cruise control / 5 speed" "Normal" set up ( called non LED/LCD in the worthless chinglish comic book they call a manual).
PROBLEM: the Hall on the PAS sensor is directional, set for drive side. Didn't work until I pedaled backwards.
Not a biggie to remedy , but a bit of extra work, and could create an unpleasant or dangerous surprise if it triggered unexpectedly.
PAS switch is a pretty horrid piece of tack. Useless to DANGEROUS
separate switch version ,not LCD
Poor indicator LED to indicate off/on status, and degree of PAS,
Dim, nearly imposible to see in any daylight.
Poor tactile feel in the buttons controlling the PAS and "Cruise", VERY POOR INSTRUCTIONS on how the function works in manual
BIG RISK of non intentional acceleration (?made by Toyota perhaps?) from Cruise and PAS
MAKES installing the brake switch essential as a safety
CRUISE ? some controllers will activate this when speed held constant. PAS/Cuise WILL work without brake cut off installed.
Neither function works if PAS sensor not installed. Brakes cut off Cruise but NOT PAS. PAS May kick in unexpectedly.
WITHOUT BRAKE LEVER CUTOFFS, CRUISE NEEDS TO BE CUT AT MAIN SWITCH, THE MEMBRANE CRUISE SWITCH OR BY DISCONNECTING BATTERY
I see this as a problem in an emergency.
Cruise needs to have motor turning under power to activate . May kick in unexpectedly.
PAS up/down buttons change function under Cruise to speed controls.
PAS is active if wired in. If cruise is turned off, PAS STILL ACTIVE. May kick in unexpectedly.
I am unsure if the pas/cruise interacts with the thumb throttle, which is notchy and difficult to modulate.
Sad, because I like pedaling with low power PAS. Useful to get a sense of what I would like in a PAS system, but not a keeper.
I have come to the conclusion that the LED/LCD is a much better option and essential for safety and the controller will work if the display fails
though this NEEDS to be documented, some say yes, some say a functioning displays needed on these.
I FEEL THE PAS/CRUISE onthr "NORMAL"model controller PRESENTS A SAFETY ISSUE.
Tire 1.75x26 Jiluer tire, richly aromatic (Don't keep near anyone who is intolerant of petro smell), rim ext width 31mm,Int width 25mm, rec pressure 45 psi
Decent tire
Brake levers: Wuxing,
Fuse looks solid 30A with spare ? Complaints in other postings , perhaps another type referred to.
Generic thumb throttle with off/on switch and meager LED battery meter.
An alibaba source for this kit appears to be cnebikes.com, but it is hard to get a good ID on these kits.
site info on the kits appears to have disappeared
I haven't been able to track a manufacturer or specs.
Alternate parts have been impossible for me to locate (PAS/Cruise switch, controller wire description)
I contacted the vendor over several issues. They pick up the phone, and are very pleasant, asked for pictures (of loose spokes?!) before they would do anything. (done)
They are not good about calling back or answered emails.
( 1 call after 6 We'll call backs/contact you)
Of note , with more substantial/immediate problems like failures , I and others have reported a good response from them.
Quite good in fact
Some of my install problems were fixed with several hours of work from me
(wheel truing, tensioning, plug rewiring, and I just can't use my lowest sprocket gear until I replace the Shimano 200GS RD or get tool for spacer)
I don't trust the durability of the factory wheel build and will try to source spare spokes.
Replacing the rim appears to be common, and is about a $80 parts plus labor (~$40)
I set up a cycle meter for RPM and the hub does 395rpm at ~40 v, unloaded
Max speed by my GPS is 30.36 MPH with light pedaling, mostly spinning the pedals out.
More likely 24-26 on level smooth which is fine for me using 2 Zippy 5000mAhr 5S in series,
I'm getting 15 miles with PAS at avg 10 mph
All in all I am satisfied, but wheel build was poor and I anticipate problems with the spokes.
Again, I FEEL THE non LCD PAS/CRUISE PRESENTS A SAFETY ISSUE.
Yescomusa/xcceries' advantage over pig-in-a-poke generic kits is their presence in US (LA suburb),
but their major sales appear to be 90+% non ebike stuff.
look at their feedback on EBAY (good).
Provided very responsive service with my problems
Other similarly priced kits may be no different.
A good starter kit, but requires some advanced skills in installation and operation.
Thanks to all on ES for the help below and elsewhere.
800w/36v rear new installation in 1997 GT Talera steel frame mountain bike.
SUMMARIZED ORIGINAL POST IN EDITS see later posts for thrilling conclusion
This package sits in the middle of the $175-$240 price range for entry level 500-1000w kits.
I paid $214, and a week later they listed it for $202 free shipping on both.
from
http://www.ebay.com/itm/36V800W-26-Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-Motor-Kit-PAS-Cycling-Hub-Conversion-Kit
Xcceries is a US vendor for http://www.cnebikes.com/index.asp in LA
It required special tools and expertise or assistance to install. None of the stuff is particularly expensive, but but adds up and then the "cheap" kit is much less cheap.
There is probably better value in the kits at the ends of their price range.
The Accessories likely not to be used for long, but are decent.
Bag is 8x8x16 and, uh, patulous.
Rack stout, but heavy.
Several vendors carry near identical kids, presumably sort of an importer's package from larger interest. (CNEbikes)
As I perused components, it looks like packing up kits like this is a common business . Think Michael Dell and his dorm room 1985.
Prior (old ringstyle) motors looked like Conhismotor, this motor case style is not on their site and looks like a 9continent.
again ,Yescomusa/Xceceries is a vendor not a brand .
Other than the Kv it is hard to get information that differentiates between the different motors that are carried.
What they use to determine motor wattage is unclear , and I know to be a subject of lively debate.
Again other than Kv I am not sure what the difference is between their 500, 800, and1000 W motors.
I guess it takes a watt meter to really get anything useful.
IS this only a reflection of the controller rating. (?)
It was well packed, well presented in the box.
Controller was connected to peripherals which assisted orientation in install, which was mostly straightforward.
Documentation the same as available online, a vague cartoon book with lots of misspellings and Chinglish grammar.
No spec sheet. features like PAS take some serious sleuthing to understand.
Controller wiring pic did not show my version
Generally I started out impressed by the product.
CONCERNS WITH THE INITIAL INSTALL:
Wheel was very round and true. Had a nice rim strip in place.
12Ga Spokes were quite unevenly tensioned, many frankly loose, and the heads would rotate in the hub holes.
Thin hub flanges need spoke washer, big time, to support the spoke. After a short ride the wheel wobbled , popped and whined from loose spokes.
Hub was not dished and had a 10 mm offset towards non-drive side, a problem for my rim brakes.
Drive side spokes took 3 1/2 full turns to tension and dish, fortunately they had threads available to use.
In fact on inspection the spokes were not deep in the nipples, many had threads showing from the hub side of the nipple.
Marked nipple to spoke angulation is common on my wheel.
It uses 160mm 12ga black spokes, which may be hard to source, if they break.
PLAN ON DISHING AND SPOKE ADJUSTMENT. REQUIRES 12GA (0.156 in) SPOKE wrench, which is not commonly available locally.
This is not just tightening a few spokes.
PAS/Cruise not well documented with SAFETY ISSUE see below
The hub did not have tubular axle spacers similar to those shown in wesnewell's pictures,
though this may be a function of the 1000W hub or conhismotor looking ringed units.
132.9 OLD fit dropouts well, a basic WIDTH.
BUT long offset for hub disc mount rules out unmodified use of even a140mm disc, due to lack of frame clearance in my install.
Would require spreading frame substantially to fit a rear disc.
Rim is rim brake compatable.
ALSO Drive side had a washer keyed for the axle that was inboard of the "Torque/tab washer”
The keyed washer is sort of like a C-washer but without a cutout.
This required removal of the hall sensor plug to replace on the outside of the torque/tab washer. This was not easy , as the parts are fragile (plug , pins, wires, all)
Placing these washers inboard of the dropout would also require spreading of the chain stays, though minimally.
Wesnewel ,who runs more powerful overvolting, spreads the frame and uses inboard lock nuts,
rather than the shallow axle shelf to anchor the axle, and dispenses with torque arms as an option.
This might be a bigger issue if not addressed.
My impression is the tabbed/torque washer needs to be tight and in place, and no inboard washer is required.
Freewheel is as loud as the motor) ,coarse, a bit more play than it needs , but probably within spec.
Mine needed a spacer to allow rear derailleur to clear the hub motor body.
This was problematic as Freewheel tools to fit the oversize axle are a special order or require drilling out a tools steel standard tool.
Make sure your dropout is deep enough to seat the 14mm axle properly.
If you need to file the dropout a bit to go deeper, go slowly to insure a snug fit.
A loose dropout will cause big problems later.
Mine required filing to seat fully.
TOOLS NEEDED : 21mm wrench,
12ga Spokewrench, truingstand, or substitute.
Ability to dish , true and tension a wheel.
Freewheel tool for 14mm axle,
files round and flat for dropouts,
crank puller for PAS, glue for PAS hall sensor attachment,
jewelers screwdrivers and very fine hemostats for hall wire plug pin removal
DETAILS of kit
Controller : KW36ZWSM, 26 amp, 36v, min volt 30~1 152mmx83mmx40mm
?http://www.szktdz.com/en/news_show.php?article_id=352 12FET
has several plugs unused by the system that I would like to see if they can be used for other features.
Manual has plug outs that don't correspond to controller. Wiring diagram is unavailable.
?? I was unable to determine if the LCD model controller fails, if not connected to LCD, or is that just an impression given by the conhismotor controller page. ?
It is needed for initial set up
PAS 5 magnets, with remote “cruise control” speed adjuster, generic looks like the conhismotor pack
I have the "Cruise control / 5 speed" "Normal" set up ( called non LED/LCD in the worthless chinglish comic book they call a manual).
PROBLEM: the Hall on the PAS sensor is directional, set for drive side. Didn't work until I pedaled backwards.
Not a biggie to remedy , but a bit of extra work, and could create an unpleasant or dangerous surprise if it triggered unexpectedly.
PAS switch is a pretty horrid piece of tack. Useless to DANGEROUS
separate switch version ,not LCD
Poor indicator LED to indicate off/on status, and degree of PAS,
Dim, nearly imposible to see in any daylight.
Poor tactile feel in the buttons controlling the PAS and "Cruise", VERY POOR INSTRUCTIONS on how the function works in manual
BIG RISK of non intentional acceleration (?made by Toyota perhaps?) from Cruise and PAS
MAKES installing the brake switch essential as a safety
CRUISE ? some controllers will activate this when speed held constant. PAS/Cuise WILL work without brake cut off installed.
Neither function works if PAS sensor not installed. Brakes cut off Cruise but NOT PAS. PAS May kick in unexpectedly.
WITHOUT BRAKE LEVER CUTOFFS, CRUISE NEEDS TO BE CUT AT MAIN SWITCH, THE MEMBRANE CRUISE SWITCH OR BY DISCONNECTING BATTERY
I see this as a problem in an emergency.
Cruise needs to have motor turning under power to activate . May kick in unexpectedly.
PAS up/down buttons change function under Cruise to speed controls.
PAS is active if wired in. If cruise is turned off, PAS STILL ACTIVE. May kick in unexpectedly.
I am unsure if the pas/cruise interacts with the thumb throttle, which is notchy and difficult to modulate.
Sad, because I like pedaling with low power PAS. Useful to get a sense of what I would like in a PAS system, but not a keeper.
I have come to the conclusion that the LED/LCD is a much better option and essential for safety and the controller will work if the display fails
though this NEEDS to be documented, some say yes, some say a functioning displays needed on these.
I FEEL THE PAS/CRUISE onthr "NORMAL"model controller PRESENTS A SAFETY ISSUE.
Tire 1.75x26 Jiluer tire, richly aromatic (Don't keep near anyone who is intolerant of petro smell), rim ext width 31mm,Int width 25mm, rec pressure 45 psi
Decent tire
Brake levers: Wuxing,
Fuse looks solid 30A with spare ? Complaints in other postings , perhaps another type referred to.
Generic thumb throttle with off/on switch and meager LED battery meter.
An alibaba source for this kit appears to be cnebikes.com, but it is hard to get a good ID on these kits.
site info on the kits appears to have disappeared
I haven't been able to track a manufacturer or specs.
Alternate parts have been impossible for me to locate (PAS/Cruise switch, controller wire description)
I contacted the vendor over several issues. They pick up the phone, and are very pleasant, asked for pictures (of loose spokes?!) before they would do anything. (done)
They are not good about calling back or answered emails.
( 1 call after 6 We'll call backs/contact you)
Of note , with more substantial/immediate problems like failures , I and others have reported a good response from them.
Quite good in fact
Some of my install problems were fixed with several hours of work from me
(wheel truing, tensioning, plug rewiring, and I just can't use my lowest sprocket gear until I replace the Shimano 200GS RD or get tool for spacer)
I don't trust the durability of the factory wheel build and will try to source spare spokes.
Replacing the rim appears to be common, and is about a $80 parts plus labor (~$40)
I set up a cycle meter for RPM and the hub does 395rpm at ~40 v, unloaded
Max speed by my GPS is 30.36 MPH with light pedaling, mostly spinning the pedals out.
More likely 24-26 on level smooth which is fine for me using 2 Zippy 5000mAhr 5S in series,
I'm getting 15 miles with PAS at avg 10 mph
All in all I am satisfied, but wheel build was poor and I anticipate problems with the spokes.
Again, I FEEL THE non LCD PAS/CRUISE PRESENTS A SAFETY ISSUE.
Yescomusa/xcceries' advantage over pig-in-a-poke generic kits is their presence in US (LA suburb),
but their major sales appear to be 90+% non ebike stuff.
look at their feedback on EBAY (good).
Provided very responsive service with my problems
Other similarly priced kits may be no different.
A good starter kit, but requires some advanced skills in installation and operation.
Thanks to all on ES for the help below and elsewhere.
....
