An alternative to thumb or twist throttles

[callagga]

I'm not at home but for me it went from handlebars of a MTB to rear carrier with not too much to spare (it was just)

[Russell]

Very interesting thread. Can anyone tell me how long the wire is from the trigger to the plug.

I'm in the process of converting my e-bike to an e-trailer and I need about 6 ft from trigger to the controller mounted on the trailer at the moment.

Cheers Greg

I cut mine down right away because I mount my controller on the handlebars but I dug out the scrap cable and it was 3' plus a bit less than 1' left on my throttle so a little under 4' total. To extend it all you need is some 3-conductor cable and a few connectors. You can buy standard connectors (not the kind on this throttle) here;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/3-Pin-Battery-Connector_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZQ7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a30QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em14Q2el1262QQhashZitem334aa3d7c1QQitemZ220295583681QQptZOtherQ5fVehicleQ5fParts

http://tncscooters.com/partsdb.php?type=ES

-R

[GCinDC]

UPDATE May 5, 2009:.... To do this I changed the 100 ohm resistor to 220 ohm and the 470 ohm to 1K-ohm.

I just ordered the trigger throttle! Where did you get your resistors? From RadioShack?

I just searched for 220 ohm resistor and found these three. Which would you recommend?

And for the 1K resistor, which of these?

Thanks,

Greg

[Russell]

I bought the variety pack;

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062304

-R

[callagga]

Hey Russell,

Just an update

I've been riding away with your design up to now. Just in the last week I had the throttle playing up intermittently. It was the B103 potentiometer in the unit that seemed/seems to have an issue. I couldn't see any of these types at the electronics shops so I think I'll just order another whole accelerator (Bladez part # 70171).

How's yours been going?

Cheers

[Russell]

Callagga,

I have two of the throttles with over 4,000 miles on them combined with no problems.

Russ

[redorblack]

Hmm... thoughts are crossing my mind as to other sources for trigger throttles...

Slot car controllers a possibility?

R/C model controllers?

I have a thumb throttle that crapped out fast and a couple of twist throttles that look just as cheap... I'd like something a bit better. The Bladez trigger is also backordered and I need something for my bike now...

Scott

[TPA]

more than one source for those.

out of stock
http://www.partsforscooters.com/111-46

out
http://www.scootercatalog.com/bladez-throttle.html

out
http://www.extremescooters.biz/bladez-t ... lever.aspx

might be in stock
http://www.trendtimes.com/bladez-throttle-lever.html

maybe
http://www.scooterpartscatalog.com/thro ... 11-46.html

wish I could be of more help

[amberwolf]

Isn't it just a regular hall sensor that's in these "linear" e-brake handles? Meaning, you could use one of them as a trigger throttle?

I will have to test this now that I have a couple.

[GCinDC]

more than one source for those.

out of stock....

my experience also... i placed my order (Sept.), and was told a week later they were back-ordered. i waited for a month or so and finally told them to cancel the order...

now with my current bike set-up (fast/high-torque) AND PARTICULARLY W/ BIG WINTER GLOVES, i want one more than ever. design seems so much safer the more i think about it.

Isn't it just a regular hall sensor that's in these "linear" e-brake handles? Meaning, you could use one of them as a trigger throttle? I will have to test this now that I have a couple.

amberwolf, i don't understand... do you have something else you can make into trigger throttle (seems to be your genious), or do you have a couple trigger throttles? (if so, wanna sell one?

[amberwolf]

Isn't it just a regular hall sensor that's in these "linear" e-brake handles? Meaning, you could use one of them as a trigger throttle? I will have to test this now that I have a couple.

amberwolf, i don't understand... do you have something else you can make into trigger throttle (seems to be your genious), or do you have a couple trigger throttles? (if so, wanna sell one?

No, I don't have actual trigger throttles. I have a pair of "linear" ebrake handles, which have hall sensors in them to control the amount of braking being done (as regen) by the motor. Since my motor has a freewheel in it (for now) they're not actually installed on the bike yet, but when I get over this stupid cold that's making me too miserable to do anything but lay here (except for going to work, which I have no choice about), I'll be checking them to see if I can use them as throttles.

linear ebrake handles.JPG (62.97 KiB) Viewed 441 times

If they work as throttles, which they should, then they can be used as long versions of a trigger throttle, or one could simply cut and file down the brake handle to become a trigger shape.

The only catch about using them is that your controller must accept hall throttle control, and not just pot throttle control.

If your controller requires a pot, then there is a solution but it involves some electronics, using a couple of Maxim digital pot chips to convert the voltage to resistance, plus an op-amp or two to offset and scale the voltage into the Maxim chips, and a 555 or similar to clock it. Basics of this (minus the input offset/scale) are here:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/3284

3284Fig01.gif (10.89 KiB) Viewed 491 times

[GCinDC]

Really? eBrake levers use hall effect? I thought they were just ON/OFF!

I'm using the magura now, which has a POT. I modified it for use, by moving the internal pot, and putting resistors on two lines, such that the output is as it should be... can't remember the specifics, something that when 5V is applied, the low end is .6V and the high end is .29V??

Anyway, I'm quite sure my infineon accepts hall-effect throttle input. And I have extra eBrakes... Heck, I've got an extra thumb throttle - maybe I should just mod that, mechanically...

[amberwolf]

Really? eBrake levers use hall effect? I thought they were just ON/OFF!

IF they are 3-wire for "linear" braking, then they probably use halls. Some might use a different sensor, but halls would be simpler and cheaper. Regardless of the sensor, if they have a power and a ground wire, and an output wire that gives the right voltage range to run your throttle input, they'd work. Or if you were willing to build a little op-amp circuit to offset and scale their voltage.

If they are 2-wire just to cut off the controller then they are just switches. Most of them are this type.

[GCinDC]

Nope, my eBrake lines are 2-wire... I'm going to think about how to mod that thumb throttle..

Russell, I notice your new avatar. What have you been up to?

[amberwolf]

Ok, work sent me home because I'm too sick and my scratched eye hurts so much I can't even open it, and it's making my runny nose more like a waterfall.

So I opened up one of those ebrakes to find out the wiring diagram for it, since it is red yellow and green, and I'd guess that red is +V and green is ground and yellow is signal, but who knows?

Here is what a "linear" ebrake looks like inside:

First the lever taken off, and the retainer ring for the brake sensor removed:

DSC02468.JPG (59.45 KiB) Viewed 448 times

Brake sensor out of unit (pulls out where lever is normally)

DSC02469.JPG (52.08 KiB) Viewed 448 times

Cover removed from sensor, showing spring with little neo magnet loosely sticking to it. I managed to keep this in whatever polarity it is supposed to be in the whole time I was working on it, right up until I started to snap the case back together. Then my eye acted up and I droped it, and so with a 50/50 chance of getting it right it's probably wrong now. I also broke the little clips that snap over the sides of the white part, so Ill be super-gluing this back together, or melting the corners together with a soldering iron.

DSC02470.JPG (46.72 KiB) Viewed 449 times

The hall sensor is visible at the bottom of the end view of the sensor, paralell to the path the magnet takes when moved by the red plunger

DSC02471.JPG (43.24 KiB) Viewed 448 times

Retainer andf guide removed, hall sticking out

DSC02472.JPG (35.88 KiB) Viewed 448 times

Couple of shots trying to read the label:

DSC02477.JPG (45.74 KiB) Viewed 448 times

DSC02478.JPG (42.24 KiB) Viewed 448 times

And a closeup shot of the sensor's "labelling":

closeup.JPG (29.51 KiB) Viewed 401 times

my eye started hurting again so i haven't gone back to test if it works as a throttle or not. Couldn't find any hall with a variation of the above marking in a limited google search, whcih is all i can handle at the moment. (i'm actually touch typing this because it is less painful if i close both eyes, since the eyelid doesn't tense up on the right eye and push on the scratch, then just checking to see if i tgot it mostly right).

[callagga]

more than one source for those.

out of stock
http://www.partsforscooters.com/111-46

out
http://www.scootercatalog.com/bladez-throttle.html

out
http://www.extremescooters.biz/bladez-t ... lever.aspx

might be in stock
http://www.trendtimes.com/bladez-throttle-lever.html

maybe
http://www.scooterpartscatalog.com/thro ... 11-46.html

wish I could be of more help

Oh - I just got a response from BH North American Corp (they're the manufacturer of the part right??) that said the Scooter Lines (in the context of the part number) were discontinued by The Bladez Corporation about three years ago, and they have limited stock on parts and we do not have that part available

Anyone know if this is correct? Or that BH North American Corp are really the manufacturer of the part Bladez part # 70171.

[dogman]

I'm a well known electronic idiot, but I think the ebrake wouldn't work as a normal throttle. I just suspect it will function more as an on off, buuut. The way I ride that could work fine I pretty much floor it at all times commuting at least. So mabye a set up with a regular throttle when you need it, but an on off throttle with a brake handle to use when you are cruising?

One thing I got to thinking, related to waterproofing a throttle, was putting the throttle in a box, waterproofed more or less, and using a cable throttle from a motorcycle to activate the sealed up regular throttle. It could be a trigger throttle from a weedeater, a brake handle, a shifter, anything that pulls on a cable.

[amberwolf]

I'm a well known electronic idiot, but I think the ebrake wouldn't work as a normal throttle. I just suspect it will function more as an on off, buuut.

The non-linear ebrake handles would indeed work that way. But if I understand correctly, the linear ones are supposed to allow you to brake a little or a lot, just like your regular mechanical brakes. That means they must be putting out an analog signal, rather than just full off / full on.

Whether or not the signal is the right level (or polarity) to use for a throttle has yet to be determined. I'm sick enough at the moment I can only wobble to the bathroom and back here to the bed, but once I feel well enough to work on stuff without falling on it, breaking it or blowing it up, I'll test out the idea.

Polarity is easy to fix, by flipping the magnet around the other way, I think. Level might have to have op-amp scaling and offset. (well, transistors could be used instead).

One thing I got to thinking, related to waterproofing a throttle, was putting the throttle in a box, waterproofed more or less, and using a cable throttle from a motorcycle to activate the sealed up regular throttle. It could be a trigger throttle from a weedeater, a brake handle, a shifter, anything that pulls on a cable.

That's pretty much how my original plan for my pedal-chain-tension-operated throttle would have been, with the Honda scooter cable-twist-throttle setup to pull it's lever up for an override when I didn't want to or couldn't pedal. I never have been able to build it to test the theory yet, though. Originally the box would've been a pot throttle with a lever on the outside that had a roller on top of the chain, and inside the box the pot throttle and the electronics needed to offset and scale it's output so it could be adjusted to suit the pedalling tension vs motor speed I wanted out of the system at a certain pedalling force. Plus some op-amp integration to smooth out downstroke vs rest of rotation, so it didn't get power surges.

[callagga]

Russ/all

Looks like the party may be over for the design on thread Called partsforscooters and they're saying they may not get the part in again and they didn't think bladez was still around. Not good timing for me cause mine needs replacing...

Anyone know of an alternative sqeeze thottle brand/model one could use instead of the Bladez?

thanks

[Russell]

This place still shows them in stock;

http://www.justformotorsports.com/products.php?product=111%252d46--BLADEZ-Lever-Throttle-Assy-For-Electric-Scooter


-R

[GCinDC]

Just called the number on the Contact Us page. The number's been disconnected. I sent them an email. Will let you know if I hear back.

[callagga]

Just called the number on the Contact Us page. The number's been disconnected. I sent them an email. Will let you know if I hear back.

which company are you referring to GCinDC? thanks

[callagga]

This place still shows them in stock;

http://www.justformotorsports.com/products.php?product=111%252d46--BLADEZ-Lever-Throttle-Assy-For-Electric-Scooter


-R

Thanks Russell - Unfortunately I found out they don't ship to Australia

[callagga]

PS - re possible alternative I see on this site there is the following - think this could be a replacement?

http://www.justformotorsports.com/products.php?product=152%252d4--Throttle-Lever-for-Gas-scooter

[GCinDC]

justformotorsports