SoCal Motor Bicycle Racing Sat April 7th 2012 Grange Racetra

[bigmoose]

This is going to be a blast! 20 electrics entered from what I heard when talking with Luke and farfle last night. Zomb, be safe, but just take your pieces parts to the track; and I'll bet the guys put it together for you. Looking forward to the pix and vids tomorrow!

The bike of death, the 2Pi, the new cromotor and 17 others! Think of this years competition versus just two years ago. The advancements being made by you guys beats a fortune 500's pace of technology development.

[zombiess]

The bike of death, the 2Pi, the new cromotor and 17 others! Think of this years competition versus just two years ago. The advancements being made by you guys beats a fortune 500's pace of technology development.

Mark 5:9
We are legion

[Alan B]

Departing momentarily. C U tomorrow.

[MotorBicycleRacing]

Grange April 7th Race Schedule:

Gate opens at 6:00am for Registration, Payment, Sign Waiver, WristBands.
Track hours 7.30am - 7:00pm

Practice 7.30am - 9.45am
Everyone off the track:
9:45 - 10:00 Racers Meeting in Pits

Heat 1: 5 Laps + 1 warm up lap
10:15 - 10:30 <50cc 4 Stroke + < 2000w eBikes + < 30 mph SLOW Mopeds
10:30 - 10:45 2 Stroke 66 cc/80 49 cc China kit bikes
10:45 - 11:00 Mid Range + eBikes + Mopeds
11:00 - 11:15 <11 hp + FAST eBikes + Mopeds

Heat 2: 5 Laps + 1 warm up lap
11:30 - 11:45 <50cc 4 Stroke + < 2000 w eBike + < 30 mph Moped
11:45 - 12:00 2 Stroke 66 cc/80 49 cc China kit bikes
12:00 - 12:15 Mid Range + eBikes + Mopeds
12:15 - 12:30 <11 hp + FAST eBikes + Mopeds

LUNCH BREAK - BIKE SHOW
12:30 - 1:30 Pre Order $10 PIZZA from Jim Granger
Practice and cruising on the track is allowed.

Finals: 12 Laps + 1 warm up lap
1:30 - 1:55 <50cc 4 Stroke + < 2000 w eBike + < 30 mph Moped
1:55 - 2:20 2 Stroke 66 cc/80 49 cc China kit bikes
2:20 - 2:45 Mid Range + eBikes + Mopeds
2:45 - 3:10 <11 hp + FAST eBikes + Mopeds

ULTIMATE RACE of the 4 Classes: 14 Laps + 1 warm up lap:
3:30 - 4:00 The top 5 to 8 place finishers from the 4 classes.

ARROW MOTORIZED CYCLES TROPHY CEREMONY:
4:00 - 4:30

UNLIMITED RACE
4:30 - 5:00

REVERSE RIDING THE TRACK [ Clockwise ]
5:00 - ???
A try out for the next SoCal Motor Bicycle Racing Event which will be run clockwise.

[nicobie]

I feel like shit. Yesterday it was coming out of both ends. Feel a little better now. I might be a bit older than most, but I haven't missed a race between the stinkers and the geeks yet.

So ... I hope I can get up and going tomorrow at 4:00 am. Sorry but I can't take the van/ gen/ parts/ popups/ tables this time.

I'm sure that I will have my usual unhelpful comments and pics though.

[acuteaero]

A little update from my point of view this evening- I left track at about 9:30... couldn't hang any longer, just exhausted. Staying in the Motel 6 in Victorville- or one of the two motel sixes, which are across the street from each other. Don't understand how that works.

PaulD's bike ate the Lyen controller I bought from Lyen yesterday and installed last night- I modified it to eliminate the cutting-out issue as seen here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16910 ... I installed additional shunt resistors for a total of four, then used the software to limit the current to what I thought was a safe value- turned out it was running more current than I thought and quit working. I need to troubleshoot it more fully tomorrow. There are some nice melted solder chunks rattling around inside, know that for sure. And one phase of blown fets, at least. Zombiess volunteered to apply his large body of knowledge about the Infineon controllers to help me scrape together something- if we're lucky we'll have a working bike again tomorrow. It was super fast while it was running today, though If we get it going again it probably won't be quite as fast again

I also rode around a little on my HS hubmotor "bmx" bike, it's pretty good except for the sorts of not quite right things that you always get when rushing to a deadline and not preparing as well as is really needed. I'm not really much of a racer so I may ride it around with the slow gas guys and just have some fun. I think that anyone trying to push it to limits would get very frustrated by all the "not-quite-rights" about it...

Running chargers off the Prius HV battery works perfect and is super slick. Actually tried it for the first time this afternoon at the track. Mean well HLG and RSP are kickass chargers. Kokam cells seem OK and pack builds seem to have mostly worked out, some small questions to confirm when I have some more time but mostly OK. Kokam cells are definitely not the performance level of good hobby lipo cells. They warm up under load/charge and sag more. But they balance nice and are very consistent.

SoSauty and 999zip showed up today, those were the only other ebikers I saw before I headed out. I have heard directly and indirectly that LFP and crew, Farfle and Stevil Knevil and friends are all rolling in later tonight.

Should be fun tomorrow! Looking forward to it!

[liveforphysics]

Im about an hour out.

Sorry to hear about the lyen controller blowing Acuteaero. Exploding controllers is the curse of the big HXT motor. I think PaulD only ran 65amps battery current on an 18s pack. Thats enough to be many hundreds of amps of phase current with that motor, and phase amps are all the controllers FETs feel.

[liveforphysics]

2pi in surgery. I give the patient a 99.9% chance of timely recovery.

[Doctorbass]

Good luck everybody!

I would love to have my Giant racing you all!.. but i would need to drive like 48h non stop! and would arrive at the race so tired that i would not be able to flip the contactor switch!

Doc

[liveforphysics]

Won by a massive margin in the fast bikes heat. The video should be good.

Roached the pack from my own mistake. Swapped to spare pack. Somehow the controller threw a fault for mosfet shorted. Confirmed no mosfets are shorted. The fault is factory reset only. We may be boned. We are talking with sevcon support.

[liveforphysics]

I roached the motor in the final.

A racing liquid cooled 2 stroke scooter took 1st.

Ryan on Zombiess cromotor bike took 2nd by a healthy margin, and was first overall for bicycles.

The third place bike was a big 4 stroke with a cvt.


However, in awards, he just ignored Ryan, and gave first place to the gas bike that finished behind Ryan, and said that the trophies are for gas bikes only.

Its fine. It just makes his awards meaningless paper weights.

[liveforphysics]

Stevil-kinevil took a dominate first in his class.

The guy gave the trophy to the gas bike that took 2nd.

[nicobie]

Well...

I guess it was to be expected. He was just wanting ebikes there for collecting extra entry $ for himself.

Can't wait to hear the rest of the details.

[bigmoose]

First congrats to you guys that went, ran and won!! Second, let him give out his trophies how he desires. Perhaps we could collect a few $'s next year for our OWN electric only trophies. Something that is meaningful to US. I would be willing to donate "some" (heretofor undefined ) wood cutting for some of the pieces for the eBike trophies (more than 1, less than 6).

[nicobie]

Hey BM,

I understand where you are coming from,

But by god, shouldn't the E guys get at least a bit of support from the race promoter? If the dillweed promoter combines Ice with E-Bikes at the same time and on the same track, shouldn't the ebikes have the same chance as the stinkers to win and collect the prize?

I was bummed out about my old body getting sick and missing the race. Maybe it was for the best as I know my blood pressure would have gone sky high watching Neils stick it to the battery guys. Last time I mostly kept my mouth shut. That won't happen ever again at his races.

Nick

[Doctorbass]

i am curious to see what the video of this race will show...

Btw thanks Luke for the updates!

Everyone will clarely see the electric taking the 2nd and the first place!.. At least the video can proove to everyone that it's the electric that won the race in some category..

[bigmoose]

Hey BM,
I understand where you are coming from,
But by god, shouldn't the E guys get at least a bit of support from the race promoter? If the dillweed promoter combines Ice with E-Bikes at the same time and on the same track, shouldn't the ebikes have the same chance as the stinkers to win and collect the prize? ... snip
Nick

Nick, you know I agree with you in principle. 100% in fact. Our guys got snookered. They won what they won, fair and square. That said, I have never found a way to force someone to like you. They either do, or they don't. As my years add up, and the end keeps coming nearer, I tend to spend that part of it that I have left with people I enjoy, and people that "get it..." Just my opinion and shaped by my current phase of life!

[liveforphysics]

Evidently, the person who made the trophies said he only wanted gas bikes to have them. Thats totally fine if the guy just wants to make his trophies into meaningless paperweights at best, or guilty shame reminders to the people awarded them at worst.

What was extremely poorly done, was not recognizing the real winners.

[Alan B]

Was a good day, except for the awards setup. We shud do our own. if we do our own, how to organize it?

I left my green directors chair, if anyone grabbed it, good.

Cromotor did well, greyborg frame did well, have to finish mine!

We are melting too many motors. Need to fix that.

Great to meet all the good folks.

Have a safe trip.

[Thud]

Hold the front door...
Was it Neil who Side steped the winners? I know the trophys were made By one of the engine bike riders

Looked pretty good to me. But if i got beat & some one handed me one....it would be pretty hollow. Totaly undermines the spirit of the event.

If e-bikes are out just say so up front. If someone DONATES a trophy, its on the promoter to see the proper riders are re-warded for their effort. If scooter are allowed in the bigk show-down....then they should be eligable for the awards.

the scooters & e-bikes paid a full entry fee if i am not mistaken.....were the mopeders told they were exibition only class, ineligable for awards? None of the e-bikes were. it really kinda stinks.

so whats the real story Neil?

[Arlo1]

Evidently, the person who made the trophies said he only wanted gas bikes to have them. Thats totally fine if the guy just wants to make his trophies into meaningless paperweights at best, or guilty shame reminders to the people awarded them at worst.

What was extremely poorly done, was not recognizing the real winners.

???? What ever. If I was a gasser and got an ill gotten trophy I would hand it over to whom it belongs to. One day luke you will find a way to NOT blow up lol one day.....

[Arlo1]

But seriously Luke its like watching gilligan's island... COME ON.

[flyinmonkie]

Awesome showing. Shame about the politics.

Looking forward to seeing some pics and video.

Clay

[zombiess]

Stevil-kinevil took a dominate first in his class.

On a Greyborg Frame with a Crytalyte HX series I think, Stevil-Kinevil please correct me on your setup if I have the wrong motor listed.

1st a word about the awards. It's Neils race and it's Neils rules, pretty much end of story there since he takes the time and effort to put these events on. Could the award been handled a little better, yes, and it most likely will be handled better in the next event because Neil has listened to us and has been very open with what he allows to run which makes it a lot more fun. Last time we said we would like to run with the gas guys in the similar power categories and that's what he gave us; and it looked like everyone had lots of fun (with some close races between evenly matched gas and electrics) which is really what it's about. A little verbal recognition might have been nice but it's his ball game. He puts his time and effort into it and if the trophy maker (did a nice job on the trophies) said they only go to gassers then that's the way it is, end of story. I hope when the scores are posted the ebikes are ranked as they finished, that's all I'd personally ask. Even the super fast bad ass moped that took 1st in the unlimited, give him credit in the final numbers for finishing 1st, he rode like a maniac and deserves the recognition exhibition or not, it was unlimited. I'm going to leave this topic now with one last sentence. Thank you for putting on the event Neil.

I did not ride my bike myself. I instead had Ebike Stig ride my bicycle. He got close to 20 practice laps in before running the event so he could get use to the throttle and had me detune the bike a bit so it was more controllable (twitchy throttle syndrome at higher amps) and my bicycle was raced with 7500W input (vs the 10-12KW I run when needing a straight line speed fix) which I was told by reliable sources familiar with ebikes on dynos should equate to roughly 7.5 HP at the wheel (1kw in usually = about 1HP at the wheel after losses). Ebike Stig did an absolutely phenomenal job riding my bike in all the races including the unlimited class which was basically anything goes with most bikes > 11HP and Ebike Stig came in 2nd after Luke and Farfle (faster bikes than mine) suffered some mechanical issues. My bike had zero mechanical or electrical issues and both my controller and motor (stock as it came from Greyborg) stayed within their working temps without problem. Ebike Stig would race, then bring it back to me after every heat and let me recharge it for him. Only credit I get is building/design and setup of the bike. Pack was a 30S3P 125V/17AH setup that was more than enough for any race we had. I checked EBike Stigs power consumption at 75-88wh/mile on my modified 18 FET Lyen 150V controller with a peak recorded straight away speed of 52.7MPH.

I believe the bike had somewhere around 50 laps put on it today + some joy riding in the pits as people wanted to test out what the motor was like. It was flogged hard and took it (shameless plug )

I myself only got to make one lap, but it was a very interesting lap. I'm hoping someone got video, I know there are pictures. Fat Albert aka Sterling from Bend Oregon Electric Bikes brought his cargo bike and we though it would be funny if I hopped into his front cargo pod and rode up to the starting line that way. I had a helmet and gloves on just for safety even though it was a short ride. To our surprise the race had just started about 10 seconds before we got to the starting line. We thought for sure they would stop us, but instead we got waved through so we went for it with me riding front monkey in his cargo bike for one lap. He was dead last, but even with 170lb me in the bike was gaining on the other gas and ebikes of the race. We then decided it would be best for me to hop out after one lap which I did after he came to a complete stop. He then managed to go on and finish 4th place in that race! I think I saw Bigfoot riding that same bike at one point but the picture I got of it are too blurry to tell for sure.

I had a great time just hanging out with everyone and helping out what ever little bit I could. Overall it was a great event and the mixed gas + electric racing was excellent.

[SoSauty]

Until one takes their hopped up e-bike, many times beyond any realistic performance parameter, and puts their design and build execution to the test (race), few can imagine the challenge. The ES gang upped their explosive speed and handling performance with a handful of brillant examples of solid reliable finishes (Greyborg/Hubzilla). The tricked out gassers have a DNF ratio almost as frequent as us though they've been at this game years before Dogmanz ran his front 9 Cont hubbie powered by a Ping batt at Tucson.

Getting to race mixed up was a blast. The racing was the most intense I've ever witnessed with lots of riders biting the asphalt (no major injuries thankfully). I don't have a solution for how to blend e-bikes with gassers without some compliants in the early stages. Today we earned some respect and certainly bragging rights with 1 caveat to bear in mind: it's not about showing up a few times and dominating veteran racer/builders. When that happens, we may need to graciously promote ourselves a class.

I second the idea of putting on our own rewards. I wouldn't mind recognizing gassers, and mopeds alike as earned. Then when our e-bikes win, it'll be fully credible. But it can't be set up so we're giving ourselves "Self Esteem" awards.

Overall, it's quite a community, Luke cheered some others on when his bike quit late in his race (he runs a little longer each race), a certain heartbreaker. Dave, Henry, Farfle had burned equipment or heat issues. The hubzillas (Greyborg)(is this right?) proved to be quality powerful fast reliable intro motors. Even some teenagers and pre-teens took over the score recording and renewed my faith in our next generation. The mopeds were just as friendly as could be, even had a too close encounter with #200 out on the track. I got center punched, but the next race he passed me every so cautiously!

Can't wait to see the listings, they're in MBR hands (#113 looks how far back was 2nd place; only 100yds or so ) Click 2x's on foto for detail.