SoCal Motor Bicycle Racing Sat April 7th 2012 Grange Racetra

[Doctorbass]

i am curious to see what the video of this race will show...

Btw thanks Luke for the updates!

Everyone will clarely see the electric taking the 2nd and the first place!.. At least the video can proove to everyone that it's the electric that won the race in some category..

[bigmoose]

Hey BM,
I understand where you are coming from,
But by god, shouldn't the E guys get at least a bit of support from the race promoter? If the dillweed promoter combines Ice with E-Bikes at the same time and on the same track, shouldn't the ebikes have the same chance as the stinkers to win and collect the prize? ... snip
Nick

Nick, you know I agree with you in principle. 100% in fact. Our guys got snookered. They won what they won, fair and square. That said, I have never found a way to force someone to like you. They either do, or they don't. As my years add up, and the end keeps coming nearer, I tend to spend that part of it that I have left with people I enjoy, and people that "get it..." Just my opinion and shaped by my current phase of life!

[liveforphysics]

Evidently, the person who made the trophies said he only wanted gas bikes to have them. Thats totally fine if the guy just wants to make his trophies into meaningless paperweights at best, or guilty shame reminders to the people awarded them at worst.

What was extremely poorly done, was not recognizing the real winners.

[Alan B]

Was a good day, except for the awards setup. We shud do our own. if we do our own, how to organize it?

I left my green directors chair, if anyone grabbed it, good.

Cromotor did well, greyborg frame did well, have to finish mine!

We are melting too many motors. Need to fix that.

Great to meet all the good folks.

Have a safe trip.

[Thud]

Hold the front door...
Was it Neil who Side steped the winners? I know the trophys were made By one of the engine bike riders

Looked pretty good to me. But if i got beat & some one handed me one....it would be pretty hollow. Totaly undermines the spirit of the event.

If e-bikes are out just say so up front. If someone DONATES a trophy, its on the promoter to see the proper riders are re-warded for their effort. If scooter are allowed in the bigk show-down....then they should be eligable for the awards.

the scooters & e-bikes paid a full entry fee if i am not mistaken.....were the mopeders told they were exibition only class, ineligable for awards? None of the e-bikes were. it really kinda stinks.

so whats the real story Neil?

[Arlo1]

Evidently, the person who made the trophies said he only wanted gas bikes to have them. Thats totally fine if the guy just wants to make his trophies into meaningless paperweights at best, or guilty shame reminders to the people awarded them at worst.

What was extremely poorly done, was not recognizing the real winners.

???? What ever. If I was a gasser and got an ill gotten trophy I would hand it over to whom it belongs to. One day luke you will find a way to NOT blow up lol one day.....

[Arlo1]

But seriously Luke its like watching gilligan's island... COME ON.

[flyinmonkie]

Awesome showing. Shame about the politics.

Looking forward to seeing some pics and video.

Clay

[zombiess]

Stevil-kinevil took a dominate first in his class.

On a Greyborg Frame with a Crytalyte HX series I think, Stevil-Kinevil please correct me on your setup if I have the wrong motor listed.

1st a word about the awards. It's Neils race and it's Neils rules, pretty much end of story there since he takes the time and effort to put these events on. Could the award been handled a little better, yes, and it most likely will be handled better in the next event because Neil has listened to us and has been very open with what he allows to run which makes it a lot more fun. Last time we said we would like to run with the gas guys in the similar power categories and that's what he gave us; and it looked like everyone had lots of fun (with some close races between evenly matched gas and electrics) which is really what it's about. A little verbal recognition might have been nice but it's his ball game. He puts his time and effort into it and if the trophy maker (did a nice job on the trophies) said they only go to gassers then that's the way it is, end of story. I hope when the scores are posted the ebikes are ranked as they finished, that's all I'd personally ask. Even the super fast bad ass moped that took 1st in the unlimited, give him credit in the final numbers for finishing 1st, he rode like a maniac and deserves the recognition exhibition or not, it was unlimited. I'm going to leave this topic now with one last sentence. Thank you for putting on the event Neil.

I did not ride my bike myself. I instead had Ebike Stig ride my bicycle. He got close to 20 practice laps in before running the event so he could get use to the throttle and had me detune the bike a bit so it was more controllable (twitchy throttle syndrome at higher amps) and my bicycle was raced with 7500W input (vs the 10-12KW I run when needing a straight line speed fix) which I was told by reliable sources familiar with ebikes on dynos should equate to roughly 7.5 HP at the wheel (1kw in usually = about 1HP at the wheel after losses). Ebike Stig did an absolutely phenomenal job riding my bike in all the races including the unlimited class which was basically anything goes with most bikes > 11HP and Ebike Stig came in 2nd after Luke and Farfle (faster bikes than mine) suffered some mechanical issues. My bike had zero mechanical or electrical issues and both my controller and motor (stock as it came from Greyborg) stayed within their working temps without problem. Ebike Stig would race, then bring it back to me after every heat and let me recharge it for him. Only credit I get is building/design and setup of the bike. Pack was a 30S3P 125V/17AH setup that was more than enough for any race we had. I checked EBike Stigs power consumption at 75-88wh/mile on my modified 18 FET Lyen 150V controller with a peak recorded straight away speed of 52.7MPH.

I believe the bike had somewhere around 50 laps put on it today + some joy riding in the pits as people wanted to test out what the motor was like. It was flogged hard and took it (shameless plug )

I myself only got to make one lap, but it was a very interesting lap. I'm hoping someone got video, I know there are pictures. Fat Albert aka Sterling from Bend Oregon Electric Bikes brought his cargo bike and we though it would be funny if I hopped into his front cargo pod and rode up to the starting line that way. I had a helmet and gloves on just for safety even though it was a short ride. To our surprise the race had just started about 10 seconds before we got to the starting line. We thought for sure they would stop us, but instead we got waved through so we went for it with me riding front monkey in his cargo bike for one lap. He was dead last, but even with 170lb me in the bike was gaining on the other gas and ebikes of the race. We then decided it would be best for me to hop out after one lap which I did after he came to a complete stop. He then managed to go on and finish 4th place in that race! I think I saw Bigfoot riding that same bike at one point but the picture I got of it are too blurry to tell for sure.

I had a great time just hanging out with everyone and helping out what ever little bit I could. Overall it was a great event and the mixed gas + electric racing was excellent.

[SoSauty]

Until one takes their hopped up e-bike, many times beyond any realistic performance parameter, and puts their design and build execution to the test (race), few can imagine the challenge. The ES gang upped their explosive speed and handling performance with a handful of brillant examples of solid reliable finishes (Greyborg/Hubzilla). The tricked out gassers have a DNF ratio almost as frequent as us though they've been at this game years before Dogmanz ran his front 9 Cont hubbie powered by a Ping batt at Tucson.

Getting to race mixed up was a blast. The racing was the most intense I've ever witnessed with lots of riders biting the asphalt (no major injuries thankfully). I don't have a solution for how to blend e-bikes with gassers without some compliants in the early stages. Today we earned some respect and certainly bragging rights with 1 caveat to bear in mind: it's not about showing up a few times and dominating veteran racer/builders. When that happens, we may need to graciously promote ourselves a class.

I second the idea of putting on our own rewards. I wouldn't mind recognizing gassers, and mopeds alike as earned. Then when our e-bikes win, it'll be fully credible. But it can't be set up so we're giving ourselves "Self Esteem" awards.

Overall, it's quite a community, Luke cheered some others on when his bike quit late in his race (he runs a little longer each race), a certain heartbreaker. Dave, Henry, Farfle had burned equipment or heat issues. The hubzillas (Greyborg)(is this right?) proved to be quality powerful fast reliable intro motors. Even some teenagers and pre-teens took over the score recording and renewed my faith in our next generation. The mopeds were just as friendly as could be, even had a too close encounter with #200 out on the track. I got center punched, but the next race he passed me every so cautiously!

Can't wait to see the listings, they're in MBR hands (#113 looks how far back was 2nd place; only 100yds or so ) Click 2x's on foto for detail.

[etard]

What a day! I thought for sure Luke was gonna walk away with it but that moped was much better suited for the turns and had decent top speed to boot, so you have to give him the win, or not...

Here is what I propose:

I propose we don't give 2 shits, it is really lame on the sponsors part.

I will most certainly be stirring the pot on the other forum.

I had a lot of fun on the few laps I ran before a hot motor fried a hall, or at least that is what the symptoms
are. I was more competitive than I thought I would be, but these other bikes are all putting out more power, which makes it really frustrating to put in all the effort to pass someone in the turns only to have them zoom by on the long straight. I'm just gonna have to see about strapping another motor on...

There should be plenty of footage loaded up over the next few days, can't wait yo see some vids.

[E-Ticket]

E-crew at Grange Racetrack (4/7/2012)

3448_e-bikes.jpg (134.67 KiB) Viewed 407 times

more to follow...

[zombiess]

I propose we don't stir the shit because it makes things worse. Instead let's come up with a possible solution to something we aren't pleased with and offer a suggestion on a way to handle it vs bitch an moan which accomplishes nothing but causing the promoter of these events to start disliking us and say forget the ebikes, they are just too much of a pain to deal with.

Fair/unfair/hard core racing isn't what these events are about, it's about having fun. I think some need to chill out and think about what they are saying. Lets offer up a suggestion on how to recognize the ebikes achievements for the next race vs bashing the guy who is putting on the event which won't get us very far. I do understand where you guys are coming from, but relax and try to think of something that's constructive. Don't make this an us vs them thing, it rarely turns out for the better when you do.

Recognition is nice and some are upset, but I don't think many of these posts are going to help accomplish anything positive which seems to be what most want as an end result. The ebikes have typically been underdogs but lately we've been doing pretty good, let's keep it friendly please and not cause problems. Much more get's accomplished when you work together vs against one another.

Jeremy

[liveforphysics]

What a day! I thought for sure Luke was gonna walk away with it but that moped was much better suited for the turns and had decent top speed to boot, so you have to give him the win, or not...

Bro- I was hanging 1 turn back from him, just coasting and taking it as easy as possible on the motor to try to put the distance in without pushing him any faster until we were on the second to last lap, when I would pour it on and easily pass and win. This was the game plan to try to keep the motor alive, on the video footage, you can see me never going past 1/3rd throttle, and not even using the front brake, just coasting softly on regen while trying to stay 1 turn back to not scare him into pushing up the pace. We battled earlier that day, he posed no threat, the only threat was just my own bike burning up before finishing the 12 laps, I hoped that game plan would do it, but it didn't... I think the damn regen boosting motor heat and coasting a bunch was my motor heating downfall.

[John in CR]

Luke,
That sounded like a perfect plan. Too bad you still had it geared for Laguna Seca but running on a cart track.

[Thud]

Thanks Zombies for that perspective.
I know Neil is a little akward on the forums & have to think he felt some presure form the donator of the trophys. I also am gratful he takes his time to promote these events & lets the e-bikers play along. (Don't tell anyone but I have gas powerd bikes too so I would prolly play anyway LOL )

& again this is pure amature racing....for the love of the game as it were. Its a pretty cheap way to test your skills & hang out with other bike builders & competitors. So in the big picture it was a great time with just an odd ending. & I doubt anyone really cares anyway. (I know I don't, I just gave another box of trophys to the local boy scout troup)

Just go, have fun, & then back to the real world on monday....(or is that suffer the slings & arrows durring the week to enjoy the real world on the weekends?)


& in closing some trash talk:
October...
I am so looking foward to finishing my unlimited bike(s) (gas & ellectric) & schooling you poor posers on what it really means to dominate a race.
Hey Nicobe or dogman? how fast was I in Touscon? (before the smoke show LOL) mutiply that by 3 & add an indestructible bike....its gonna be a hellva show boys! Any one plan on attending an event, I am just saying thats the one to show up for......

But for some odd reason, I am really going to focus on that goofy 50cc china girl class......I really WANT that win. (it will be a perfect segway into the 2013 AHRMA asault)
Get some in October....tu-dalu' for now.

[etard]

What a day! I thought for sure Luke was gonna walk away with it but that moped was much better suited for the turns and had decent top speed to boot, so you have to give him the win, or not...

Bro- I was hanging 1 turn back from him, just coasting and taking it as easy as possible on the motor to try to put the distance in without pushing him any faster until we were on the second to last lap, when I would pour it on and easily pass and win. This was the game plan to try to keep the motor alive, on the video footage, you can see me never going past 1/3rd throttle, and not even using the front brake, just coasting softly on regen while trying to stay 1 turn back to not scare him into pushing up the pace. We battled earlier that day, he posed no threat, the only threat was just my own bike burning up before finishing the 12 laps, I hoped that game plan would do it, but it didn't... I think the damn regen boosting motor heat and coasting a bunch was my motor heating downfall.

Ok, I thought you were faster earlier in the day, but I don't think that guy was gonna take it easy with you behind him. Your sttaightline speed is something to behold, you really have to see this bike rip in person to understand how much faster than everybody it was. I wish you had gotten out there with the Supermotards, that would have been awesome!

Ultimate race setup?

I have to give to Acutero (sp?) for having the best race setup, he crammed 2 ebikes, 2 riders, and everything else into his Generator and drove it to the track! Honestly, I have never considered buying a hybrid until I saw his 250 volt outlet running directly off his battery, how freakin cool is that!

Speaking of charging, I think a portable solar panel trailer would be cool for us ebikers to rent for the next race for our charging needs, something like this:

http://www.sol-solutions.com/products-s ... vents.html



I appreciate Farfle and Fam bringing thier monster genny, but if anything turns stink bikers away from going electric, it's the fact that ultimately we rely on fossil fuels to power our bikes, which makes our bikes even worse polluters than them!

The hero of the day was Sterling on his cargo SUV bike. I think he had a good time and I know we all had a great time watching him pass riders on his bike. What a vehicle! How many walmart bikes does it take to build one of these? I'm about to find out!

Ok, I got to ride a few bikes out there on the track and again the bike that amazed me most was Farfles. The throttle control on the Sevcon is every ebikers wet dream. It gives you this smooth roll on of power and then a tiny delay then winds up with a hit of acceleration that makes it feel sooo fast but controlled! The delay is a little much for track use, but for street rideability it works great. It's the only fast bike that I would recommend a novice hop on and try at full power. I also got a chance to ride Zombiess lil beast around the track and for a bone stock motor, this bike hauls ass! If I wasn't dedicated to external motors so deep, I would order one for around town scooting and general hooliganism. Having said all this, both bikes could use some serious chassis tuning, they give a 82' Cadillac smooth ride, but for the track I still prefer my lil non suspended Brute. At this point, I think one of the early mountain bikes with flexy chainstays and a Girvin fork with about 1-2" of travel would make a perfect track bike.

Don't be afraid to stick it to Neil, he sticks it to us, and it's not like he is gonna turn his back on ebikers, we had 10 ebike entries at this race which = $350, do you really think a race promoter is gonna depart from this profit and all future profits?

[magrider]

Hi, I’ve dabbled with motors and batteries way back when battle bots was around. So basically I don’t know anything about what you guys are doing because my bots always went up in smoke. A lot of money and years later I found myself involved in the motorized bicycle community.

I’m on the other forums and have been attending these races since the Death Race 2010 or 2011 (i forget). Since then I have raced in all of Neils races Willow, and 2 Grange events, and took 3 first place finishes. I’m a die hard 2 stroke racer, most likely always will be.

So why am I here posting on an e-bike forum? Because I think you guys are doing a great job, You are pushing the envelope. When I show up to the events and I see all of the different types of bikes I think this is a great thing. Yesterday there was Ebikes, mopeds, scooters, 4 strokers, 2 strokers all racing together, and it was a great time. There wasn’t any attitudes towards each other, everyone cheering each other on, and supporting the other guy. We were helping with whatever we could, to many times this doesn’t happen in our society, and too have a few days a year makes these events something to look forward too. As far as the trophies I don’t understand? maybe for the future events donate some trophies or prizes to the podium? I'm not here to tell you all what to do, or live your life, or be a better person, or worse .

I'm here to say I like to see you at the track, and I like racing with you.

I hope to see you racers at Bairds events also, he’s running them at Adams raceway in Riverside.

Keep up the great work, If you’re in the pits stop by and say hi, and hope to see you at the next one. –magrider-

[Ykick]

Speaking from my armchair here on the east coast y'all make it look like a TON of fun and my regret for not making something happen again this year! Certainly on my bucket list...

Thanks again to all who participated and represented all two-wheelers. Gas, electric, there's much more in common than different.

[Arlo1]

I appreciate Farfle and Fam bringing thier monster genny, but if anything turns stink bikers away from going electric, it's the fact that ultimately we rely on fossil fuels to power our bikes, which makes our bikes even worse polluters than them!

Im not worried about that, Its easy enough to explain that at home we use solar or hydro etc.

[dogman]

Yahoo, sounds like I sure missed a fun day! Don't sweat the awards, everybody has their own mental classes.

Winners know who they beat, whether it was for 1'st place, or simply not being dead last. Now, if there was real prize money involved, things would have to be clearly spelled out, and anybody not in the running would not be on the track at all.

Still a great thing that electirc bikes are allowed on the track, it could sooooo easily be otherwise. Thanks for putting on the races! Organizng even small events is not a walk in the park. I know, I've done professional and amature event organizing many times.

Awesome that Zombies bike flew through the event no problems. As said before, you just can't believe how hard to do that is till you bring your own bike and give it a rip. You can be last and finish, but competitive and finish is really hard! Way to go Greyborg!

Now, Please tell me somebody out there was running a go pro. I'll be patient, but please tell me footage exists. It can be a bitch, getting the damn thing turned on when on the starting line though.

[dogman]

Re the generator. You really think gassers give a damn how we charge? They don't. The prius, cool as it is, burned gas to charge the battery. Plugs in the pits would be nice to have someday, but not expected soon.

Nice, would be having enough spare batteries to run all day without fussing with chargers. Pretty costly. At the DR, my goal was to just have a battery for the main event stashed. But the practice and heats, I had to keep charging. Even that was a lot of $$ for my budget.

[chroot]

Where the scoreboard please?

[liveforphysics]

Where the scoreboard please?

I have nice HD video of the finish of the race from standing trackside.

The 2-stroke water cooled track-only scooter (it's not a moped, it has no pedals) took first.

Ryan took 2nd on Zombiess electric childrens bicycle with the cromotor hubby. (The 1st place bicycle)

The guy they gave the the now worthless paperweight 1st place trophy to took 3rd.

[www.recumbents.com]

I race recumbent bicycles and we are treated the same way by the upright bikers as ebikes are treated by the smoker bikes. They usually let us race (just in time trial events, not in lap races), but we are not entitled to prize money. Sometimes we get a ribbon or other trinket but just in recumbent class.

The way I figure it is, just be happy they let you race. Anything else is gravy. We are not in it for the money, we are in it to stretch the envelope, promote what we believe in, and HAVE FUN.

Stepping off soap box now. Congrats to all the e-bike racers!

-Warren.