High power RC motor and drive unit production

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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recumpence   100 GW

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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by recumpence » Apr 05 2009 8:48pm

I have considered the "Bore to suit" scinerio. There are a couple issues with that. But it is not a bad way to go.

A "V" shape would crush the frame tube to that shape. :(

Wrap around band style clamps are not a bad option. Neither are U-bolts. However, either of those would definately require additional bracing to eliminate rotation on the tube it is clamped to.

Matt
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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by johnrobholmes » Apr 05 2009 8:55pm

What about the use of prepped rubber beneath a band clamp? With a three point mounting system, rotation is not likely. If the rubber is prepped with acetone or another solvent it can really grab onto the tubes. Gotta make sure the solvent is evaporated before clamping though, don't want to ruin a nice paintjob! :mrgreen:

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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by GGoodrum » Apr 05 2009 10:45pm

Nice idea. It looks like it would be similar to what Matt has on his, but with a round hole. This would definitely be a good option for me for my 16" Curve.

On the Mariner, I finished slotting the aluminum bar/plate, and now have mounted the drive assembly. I drilled and tapped four 1/4-20 holes in the bottom of the "foot". The whole assembly can slide fore and aft about 3/4", which is to allow tensioning of the chain going to the crank.

Image


This is actually getting closer to finally running now. :roll: I need to build up one of Richards throttle boards and wire up the Powerjazz controller, and then changeout the Cyclone crankset for the IPS crank which has a White ENO FW and 53T/40T chainrings.

Anyway, is this block clamp something you can do Matt? If so, I'll take two sets. :)

<off to measure seat tube diameters...>

-- Gary

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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by recumpence » Apr 08 2009 5:54pm

I am about to order more material for the second run of E-drives.

Along with the next run of drives, I may make a mounting plate that the Foot can screw to. That mount plate would have a rounded under side to fit against a frame tube and have four holes along the sides for U-bolts. A rubber pad can be used between the plate/U-bolt assembly and the frame. I think this will tend to twist on the frame. So, I need to figure out a simple rotation brace to eliminate that from occuring. But, overall, this may be the easiest solution without having to throw another hundred bucks at it for CNC frame clamps.

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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by MitchJi » Apr 08 2009 8:22pm

Hi Matt,
recumpence wrote: Along with the next run of drives, I may make a mounting plate that the Foot can screw to. That mount plate would have a rounded under side to fit against a frame tube and have four holes along the sides for U-bolts. A rubber pad can be used between the plate/U-bolt assembly and the frame. I think this will tend to twist on the frame. So, I need to figure out a simple rotation brace to eliminate that from occurring. But, overall, this may be the easiest solution without having to throw another hundred bucks at it for CNC frame clamps.

Matt
I like it. Sounds excellent. Very little additional cost or complexity while at the same time making a huge reduction in the difficulty of mounting on many bikes!

Earlier post from another thread:
recumpence wrote:I may make the next round of drive mounts wider, like the look of Gary's and Oof's mount with the angled side flanges (but integrated into the mount foot) and mill a rounded recess into the length of the foot mount in the center to rest against the frame or seat tube. Then the customer can just use U-bolts for mounting.

Matt
One thing I like about your earlier idea was the simplicity, no increase in parts count. I agree that rotation prevention is essential. Maybe borrowing a page from your earlier idea and doing something as simple as providing some flat surfaces with bolt holes on the foot, where the owner can easily mount a brace or braces. They can run the brace(s) to any nearby tube or surface and secure them with bolts or u-bolts.

I posted this image on D's thread and thought it might be of interest here, because both the "feet" in contact with the down-tube and the band clamp are possible solutions for non-round and varying sized down-tubes. I think the "feet" he uses in contact with the frame tube provide a good fit on a wider range of tubes than a round surface. Would something similar, maybe using longer pieces of thicker stock for "feet" work, or would they bend the frame?
http://www.bike-elektro-antrieb.ch/home.htm
Image

If they could be made to work it might be possible to design a similar part on which the distances between the "feet" and the lengths of the "feet" could easily be varied to accommodate an even wider range to down-tube shapes and sizes. If the "feet" are made out of bolted on angle stock then both the distance between the "feet" and the height of the "feet" could easily be varied.

GGoodrum wrote:
recumpence wrote:Maybe the U-bolts would not look out of place with purpose built drive foot specifically for them?
I think that would be fine. It's not the U-bolts I have a problem with, it is just my cheezy-looking, unpolished "wings". :mrgreen:

When you do this, can you have some extras made? I'd like to get a couple of new "shoes" for my two existing drives. ;)

-- Gary
Gary, your best bet is probably to wait for Matt's solution, but if you want U-bolt mounts that don't look like wings you could:
1. Make your extensions out of square or rectangular stock instead of angle stock so they look less like "wings". Maybe do some grinding to match the contours of the foot and/or bevel the top corner.
2. Start with square or rectangular stock and have the top corner machined off so that you have a sloping side instead of a 90 degree corner at the top.
Best Wishes!

Mitch


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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by Hardcarve1 » Apr 08 2009 8:27pm

How about using Pipe coupling similar to this

http://www.teekaycouplings.com/Products ... e_cou.html

It comes in plenty of sizes and some can take a large variation in tube oval. You get reasonable good even clamping onto the tube and you gan use the clamping bolts to mount to.
I only did a quick search but their must be some that have plate mounts for attaching to walls which would make a great motor mount.

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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by MitchJi » Apr 08 2009 9:11pm

Hi Alex,
Hardcarve1 wrote:How about using Pipe coupling similar to this

http://www.teekaycouplings.com/Products ... e_cou.html

Alex
Would you mind fixing the link (I'd like to see what you are talking about)?

A good way to fix it and (to post links in the future) is to click the "URL" button, then paste the correct link between the URL tags.
Best Wishes!

Mitch


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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by Ypedal » Apr 08 2009 9:49pm

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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by Chappy » Apr 08 2009 11:17pm

Terracycle makes some very nice, light and, unfortunately, expensive tube clamp mounts for their idler kits that might work very nicely to help mount Matts units to round tubes: (maybe this link will work)

http://www.terracycle.com/Merchant2/mer ... =IdlersALL


MAtt, I've been following your projects for some time and what you've accomplished has been impressive. I'm currently modifying an old recumbent and if its still a decent ride when I'm done, I would like to go forward and convert it to electric assist using one of your drives.

Chappy
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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by etard » Apr 09 2009 3:11am

I can't help but wonder if the stem on a XC, DH, BMX, etc... depending on your tube size couldn't be used. Maybe use this in conjunction with your foot.

Image

Or something like this instead of your foot. Measure the outside diameter of the tubing, if it is 32mm it could be used in place of a the stem

Image

or if it is 38mm and your seat tube is 32mm

Image

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/sub/147-Stems.aspx
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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by gwhy! » Apr 09 2009 3:41am

etard wrote:I can't help but wonder if the stem on a XC, DH, BMX, etc... depending on your tube size couldn't be used. Maybe use this in conjunction with your foot.

Image

Or something like this instead of your foot. Measure the outside diameter of the tubing, if it is 32mm it could be used in place of a the stem

Image

or if it is 38mm and your seat tube is 32mm

Image

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/sub/147-Stems.aspx
I used a stem like the one above for the first e-bike i chucked together with bits i had hanging around in the shed it worked really well, I clamped a bottom bracket in one hole for use as a axle and the other hole was used to clamp it to the seat tube. Worked a treat 8)

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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by GGoodrum » Apr 09 2009 6:16pm

You know what? This headset stem idea is a great one. The bearing tube on the drive is 1-1/8", as are most of the threadless headsets. The heavy-duty DH handlebars are typically 31.8mm, which is the same diameter as one of my folding bike seat tubes, so I went ahead and ordered one of these: http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/ ... +Stem.aspx For $25 I figured it was worth a shot. :)

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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by Almasi » Apr 09 2009 6:21pm

Chappy wrote:Terracycle makes some very nice, light and, unfortunately, expensive tube clamp mounts for their idler kits that might work very nicely to help mount Matts units to round tubes: (maybe this link will work)

http://www.terracycle.com/Merchant2/mer ... =IdlersALL


MAtt, I've been following your projects for some time and what you've accomplished has been impressive. I'm currently modifying an old recumbent and if its still a decent ride when I'm done, I would like to go forward and convert it to electric assist using one of your drives.

Chappy

Thank you!!!!!

I was looking for something exactly like that to mount my controller :D

I learned and found some much stuff in the last year with this forum :mrgreen:

Robin

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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by oofnik » Apr 09 2009 8:37pm

I thought about the headset clamp before but never really pursued it. Thanks for bringing that up- it may be a good option.

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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by MitchJi » Apr 12 2009 1:26am

Hi,
GGoodrum wrote:You know what? This headset stem idea is a great one. The bearing tube on the drive is 1-1/8", as are most of the threadless headsets. The heavy-duty DH handlebars are typically 31.8mm, which is the same diameter as one of my folding bike seat tubes, so I went ahead and ordered one of these:
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/ ... +Stem.aspx
Great idea Gary. Here is the link for all of their (they carry 86) 1 1/8" Threadless Stems:
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/sub/147- ... spx?s=1542

These rivnut links, posted by Miles in the Cattrike build thread might help someone here. Might be a good way to stop clamp rotation:
Best Wishes!

Mitch


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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by ktronik » Apr 14 2009 7:12am

Hi Guys,

Err sorry to ask, but how would a mortal person obtain one of Matt's drives, with motor attached?? I have seen quite a few of these in posts now, so guess they are available, from someone, that is Matt?? I really really did try to read all the pages to find this info... :?

Thanks

Ktronik

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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by deecanio » Apr 14 2009 10:00am

Hi Ktronik,

yes Matts the man!!!
drop him a pm with your spec (motor, single stage or dual) etc.
i dont know if Matt has any ready now or the first batch are all out there in the hands of maniacs :twisted:
if you know what motor you are going to use that would help a lot as each has different mounting requirements.
Talk to Matt direct for mor specific answers :mrgreen:

Cheers,

D
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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by Lucky_Hoodlum » Apr 14 2009 6:43pm

I have been trying to digest as much information on this rc motor on electric bicycle myself ktronik
i found this http://www.recumbents.com/WISIL/shumaker/edrive.htm link for Matt Shumaker (recumpence)
website it has emailing address you might also send email and pm to get in touch? hope this might help :-)
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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by ktronik » Apr 14 2009 8:27pm

Thanks guys,

I will give him a PM...

K

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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by Ypedal » Apr 16 2009 10:31am

I purchased the motor and had it shipped to Matt, who made it fit then shipped the whole thing to me ! :wink: ( Thanks again Matt !!! .. i have the drive on my dining room table to admire every time i walk by lol.. )
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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by 1clue » Apr 16 2009 3:23pm

I'm still not sure yet, but I might be giving you a call in a few weeks Matt.

I still need to see how things lay, but I want one of those drives if I can make the budget work out.

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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by GGoodrum » Apr 20 2009 12:58am

GGoodrum wrote:You know what? This headset stem idea is a great one. The bearing tube on the drive is 1-1/8", as are most of the threadless headsets. The heavy-duty DH handlebars are typically 31.8mm, which is the same diameter as one of my folding bike seat tubes, so I went ahead and ordered one of these: http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/ ... +Stem.aspx For $25 I figured it was worth a shot. :)
Crap, this was a waste. I got a couple of these, and I found places on both bikes where the clamps fit perfect. The only problem is that the bearing tube is not 1-1/8" in diameter, like I thought. It's 1-3/8". That means this idea is a bust, unless I can find a stem with bigger hole. :roll:

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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by MitchJi » Apr 20 2009 1:21am

Hi Gary,
The only problem is that the bearing tube is not 1-1/8" in diameter, like I thought. It's 1-3/8". That means this idea is a bust, unless I can find a stem with bigger hole. :roll:
Is there enough material that it could be bored out to 1-3/8"?
Best Wishes!

Mitch


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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by etard » Apr 20 2009 1:26am

Gary,

Well your seatpost is 1 1/8" right? It won't fit on there?

I got that stem I pm'd you, man is this thing a brute! If you want I can see if I can get this thing bored out proper and send it to you, then I'll just buy another for myself.
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Re: High power RC motor and drive unit production

Post by GGoodrum » Apr 20 2009 1:45am

etard wrote:Gary,

Well your seatpost is 1 1/8" right? It won't fit on there?

I got that stem I pm'd you, man is this thing a brute! If you want I can see if I can get this thing bored out proper and send it to you, then I'll just buy another for myself.
I got the same one. My seat posts are a larger diameter. the 32mm end fits them fine. If you know of a place in OC to get these bored out, let me know. This one is certainly beefy enough.

I checked the Jenson site and they also have one that is 1-1/2".

-- Gary

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