Stinky Turnigy 80-100 -Nuvinci semi auto

[enoob]

very cool .

i to like the fact that our mutual friend BEER is involved . very handy fellow to have around, good marriage counselor too.

nice to see hall sensor installs are not a complete mystery.

[Burtie]

Yes,
I was pleased with the performance of the beer, and it remained stable throughout the course of the experiment.


For those who may be wondering, the halls are Honeywell ss411a spaced at 120 (mechanical) degree intervals.

Burtie.

[etard]

Great job as always Burtie!! Question: Do you have to use high temp wire or something when it runs around inside the motor like this? It seems like when things heat up, the wire jacketing would be the first to smoke, or does the epoxy fail first? I guess we will see.

Isn't it a misnomer that the English drink warm beer? I mean, they don't drink it ice cold like other places, buy they don't drink it warm either. Is it the Germans that drink it warm?

[gwhy!]

nice one Burtie,
What voltage where you running in your video? im surprised that there is such a difference in no load current comapared to my motor 8085 which is 5A+ @ 44v. Make sure your glue holding the halls in is up to the job temp wise. When I modded my 6fet controller it had a much faster throttle response over the standard controller.. looking forward to seeing this on your bike..

[kfong]

Hi Bertie,

I'll be doing the same. I picked up the Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv about a month back. I like how you just glued the sensor to the windings. I was going to CNC a plate like what you tried earlier. How did you get the phase wires coordinated, or was it just trial and error till you got it to spin. Also was there are reference position you had to start off with or did you just mount them 120degs and assume the rest would be handled by the controllers software.

Kin

[Burtie]

etard,

I am guessing the hall sensors would stop working, or the epoxy would fail before the insulation on the new wires would melt .
The new sensor wires are actualy routed straight out the front of the motor so they hardly touch the windings at all. They were wrapped around in the picture just to hold the sensors in place while the glue set.

'Real Ale' (the live, non sterilized beer) is best drunk at just below room temp, about 12c to 15c so you can taste the groovy flavours! However probably most of the beer sold over here is what we call 'lager', light in colour, sterelized and served cold as kiM describes on the previous page.

beer ---"helping with motor assembly, everywhere".

beer.jpg (93.73 KiB) Viewed 1379 times

gwhy!,
The voltage in the video was 24.

I wonder if the stator lamination material is different in the new style 80-85 motors, the cogging seems to be very much less (perhaps 90% less) than the older 80-100 motor that I have. Could this account for the higher no-load current?
The lamination thickness looks to be the same, the magnets appear to be of a similar strength, airgap and geometry are similar (except of course for the 15mm shorter stator).

What modifications did you make to your 6 FET controller and how has the performance changed?

Kin,
It does not matter what gap you start glueing the sensors in the stator, the important thing is that they have a 120 degree spacing (put one in every 4th gap), and that they all face the same way, I fitted mine with the chamfer facing outwards.

Phase wiring I discovered by trial and error. Use a small fuse in the supply and a current meter to prevent any fireworks
Leave the phase wires fixed, you then have maximum of 6 (or is it 9) combinations of sensor connections to play with.
If you cannot get it to run well, swap two of the phase wires over and try the sensor wire combinations again.

Just a word of caution --I have not been able to test this modified motor with any significant mechanical load yet.

If your motor is the new style with the skirt bearing, it would be interesting to measure the no-load current at max rpm

EDIT: I have since tried one of the new style 80-100 motors, no-load was 4 amps @24v (this is quite a bit less than the new style 80-85 motor )

Cheers,
Burtie

[gwhy!]

gwhy!,
The voltage in the video was 24.

I wonder if the stator lamination material is different in the new style 80-85 motors, the cogging seems to be very much less (perhaps only 10% ) than the older 80-100 motor that I have. Could this account for the higher no-load current?
The lamination thickness looks to be the same, and the magnets appear to be of a similar strength.

What modifications did you make to your 6 FET controller and how has the performance changed?

There is defo something different about the motors, I have put mine back on the shelf for the time being and been playing around with my smaller motor 3.2kw with halls fitted around the outside. The controller mods was upgrading the fets to IRFB3077PBF MOSFET N-CH 75V 120A , beefing up the traces, higher gauge battery and phase wires and approx halving the value of the shunt then reprogrammed the controller this is on a 48v controller and now can push 100A into the motor ( i can up the current but i thought 100A is a good safety margin ) I also added more heatsink to the controller case ( do not get remotely warm ). The performance is just so much better over stock , the main improvements was the throttle response, and the obvious one "MORE POWER"..

[AussieJester]

Good to hear your drinking the 'good gear' mate LoL...but.."England V's Australia edition" haha is that old stock or is the beer company still riding on the 09 Ashes win? ...2010-11 series is in OZ Burtie, Poms dont have a hope of retaining the Ashes in Australia we is playing some good cricket

Best of luck getting the bike up and running anyays Burtie...

KiM

[Burtie]

At last .............it lives again

It seems like a long time ago the HV110 controller got fried, but I have finally got around to resurrecting the bike, this time using a sensored HXT and a modified 12 FET Ecrazyman controller.

more sensored stinky.jpg (130.58 KiB) Viewed 1168 times

Although I have modified the controller (better FETS, bigger PCB tracks, Power and Phase leads) I have not yet altered the stock current limiting.
The max current at the moment is 26 amps (giving about 1200 watts). I thought I would try a few runs like this to iron out any problems, then gradually up the limit to about 5kw when I am happy everything is ok.

During test rides, the first thing I noticed was how well the bike pulls from a dead stop, even if parked on a steep hill. Previously with the sensorless ESC the startup from stopped was very violent and unpredictable, you had to carefull not to end up on your arse!


The other benefit I am expecting Is that the motor will no longer lose sync under rapid acceleration.

I will keep you posted.

Burtie

[AussieJester]

Previously with the sensorless ESC the startup from stopped was very violent and unpredictable, you had to carefull not to end up on your arse!

GREAT to hear this has been solved this is the only issue i have with the HV110... looking forward to hooking the hall sensors up
and using the infineon Luke is bomb proofing for me too! I find it very difficult now to turn at low speed as i can't manipulate the throttle/speed like i need to to kep balance in a tight turn scenario, as you know tiz sketchy all or nothing type affair...LUUUUKE get back to Seattle damn you playtime is over in Costa Ricca give John backs his frock motored e-bike and come home LoL

The other benefit I am expecting Is that the motor will no longer lose sync under rapid acceleration.

This thankfully is something i didn't experience perhaps the Fechter interface helped with this? Was smoooth acceleration right from walking pac to top speed i never experienced a single loss of sync.

Look forward to updates Burtie, is it fine enough to ride now or is it still alot of white stuff on the ground in the Motherland?

KiM

[Burtie]

Just a quick update since the sensored motor and controller was fitted.

I have been using the Stinky, equipped with hall sensors, for a few months now with excellent results.


Added more LiPo... +in-situ charging/balancing connectors = millions more wires

Scary wires.jpg (143.04 KiB) Viewed 817 times

More scary wires.jpg (135.83 KiB) Viewed 817 times

What to do with all this stuff ...




- I decided to bag it up and hang it from the top tube ...

Got it bagged.jpg (141.16 KiB) Viewed 817 times

... works a treat!


With a battery current limit now set to 100 amps (allowing 4.5kW peaks) and an 8 speed MTB deraileur to run it through, I find the performance quite entertaining

Scary speed for me on flat.jpg (50.81 KiB) Viewed 820 times

Hoping I dont blow it up too soon - it is too much fun

burtie

[Thud]

Thanks for the update Bertie.
figured you were out riding as its been awfully quiet lately.

[dbaker]

Wow! It must wheelie pretty good! 12 fet controller? What voltage are you running and what are the controller parameters you set?

[Burtie]

Thanks for the update Bertie.
figured you were out riding as its been awfully quiet lately.

Yes I have been out riding, making the most of the sunshine while it is here

Wow! It must wheelie pretty good! 12 fet controller? What voltage are you running and what are the controller parameters you set?

Yes the bike wheelies really well, ...much better than I do

Powered by 12s 3p LiPo

12 FET Settings.jpg (60.87 KiB) Viewed 777 times

The controller shunt is modified, so the battery current limit is just over 3x the programmed value.

burtie

[Burtie]

And, so it was, that after busting my freewheel, I discovered that I had also ridden through a huge pile of dog shit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFDsjOW1Q7Q





Burtie

[gwhy!]

And, so it was, that after busting my freewheel, I discovered that I had also ridden through a huge pile of dog shit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFDsjOW1Q7Q





Burtie

Love the vid Burtie , yes you need to watch for that dog shit , when ever I go out with my mates on the cycle trials it always me that end up with it all over my wheels and only discover this when Im putting the bike back into the car to go home... its not nice .. what freewheel have gone is it the freehub or a screw on freewheel?.

[Metallover]

Awesome vid! I'm very impressed with how the bike handles!

Which freewheel did you break?

[Miles]

Yes, we need the full autopsy report, Burtie. Valuable info....

Shall I start a Post-mortem thread, so that we can log all failures for reference?

[AussieJester]

Outstanding video Burtie... peoplez... if the hairs on the back of your neck don't stand up at the
sound of that outrunner your not only lacking testrone but gonads IMHO
Lovely stuff Burtie, bikes awesome, look fantastic, rides well, love that helmet & .....
ya look good ridin' it mate .....thanks for taking the time to film this and edit the footage
for the forum mate props to your 'wife/lady friend?" excellent job behind the camera also.
The broken freewheel will be rectified with a higher quality ENO no doubt? and then good to go again

KiM

p.s this is the exact spacing on the halls sensor mount, as you posted my way mate?

EDiT: i should get some t-shirts printed Burtie..."I 'd rather push my RC motored bike home than
ride a frock powered bike"

[etard]

Awesome vid Burtie! Poppin wheelies with the best of em!!

Does that bike fell comfortable? It almost looks like you could go a size bigger. Especially with all that nose lifting nonsense.

[Burtie]

Glad you liked the short video, we had a lot of fun making it

Yes, we need the full autopsy report, Burtie. Valuable info....

So the autopsy began....

The freewheel on the output of the gearbox appeared to have failed, but after dismantling it semed to be ok.
I examined it at length, trying to work out what the problem was ...

Then my GF took a quick look and pointed out that the flange had sheared off the freewheel adaptor

Compare broken and new freewheel adaptor

The inexpensive Dicta freewheel was fine but did not transmit torque because the adaptor was able to screw right through the middle since the flange was missing.

The freewheel adapters I bought from Staton-inc (USA). These items seem rare and hard to ge hold of. Does anybody know another source that they can recommend for these things?


This incident now gives me the excuse to gear the bike 10% higher by fitting a larger sprocket to the gearbox output. This is something I have been wanting to do for a while, but never got around to. Will be interesting to test the new top speed

Burtie

[Burtie]

Does that bike fell comfortable? It almost looks like you could go a size bigger. Especially with all that nose lifting nonsense.

I Bought the frame on Ebay, The bloke said it was a big 'un, but when I went to collect it, it turned out a medium

It probably would be better at speed if it were bigger but I kind of like the agility of this small frame off-road

KiM wrote:
p.s this is the exact spacing on the halls sensor mount, as you posted my way mate?

EDiT: i should get some t-shirts printed Burtie..."I 'd rather push my RC motored bike home than
ride a frock powered bike"

AJ,
The motor now in this bike is a new style Turnigy 80-100B (with the skirt bearing) that i fitted with internal 120 degree hall sensors.

I love the idea of the printed t-shirts

Burtie

[liveforphysics]

I love the vid, and love the bike! Great work Burtie!

[dbaker]

Burtie,

I got some 5/8" ID freewheel adapters from sickbikeparts.com (http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/pr ... taatf3cpt6)

They are aluminum with a shoulder that is close to 1/2" thick compared to the thin one on yours.

[flyinmonkie]

You can also get them from Choppers US in steel. They have a 15mm ID though.

http://www.choppersus.com/store/product ... l-Adapter/

Clay