Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

[j3tch1u]

I'm toying with the idea of using an axial flux motor for my drive to narrow down the footprint. I'm using a standard matex coupling to connect the two rotors and provide the input connection to drive a single 7:1 matex gear.

Credit goes to miles' stator design:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=15752.

AXIAL FLUX MOTOR.JPG (64.57 KiB) Viewed 1367 times

STATOR.jpg (46.14 KiB) Viewed 1366 times

[Miles]

Looking forward to following this, if you go ahead, Ben.

[j3tch1u]

8) Looking forward to following this, if you go ahead, Ben.

umm, i was waiting for you. the taiwanese way is always to embrace and extend ..and thus the conundrum

[Miles]

[12p3phPMDC]

Ben,

Great idea using the matex coupling as the core of the rotor.

[j3tch1u]

Ben,

Great idea using the matex coupling as the core of the rotor.

it sure as hell beats broaching my own sob out of solid hardened steel rod. matex gears are meant to be modular and compact..not sure why they make such a long coupling.

the broach is fully through hole so i can stack another twin-rotor/planetary drive a'la matex style on the other side would be a neat trick to match gearing, windings to synchronize the drives though

[12p3phPMDC]

re: broaching

I hear you...I investigated the idea of having some custom parts broaced to the Matex specs, but it's not worth it
for small volumes. The coupling and shaft parts that they have are easier to modify. Its probably why they make them so large.

Its weird....I don't know about the coupling you have....but they broached it all the way through, and then took a boring bar
and bored out the splines in the middle of the coupling.....

I don't understand why they hit the part with this secondary step. and it's bored out to be greater than 12mm.. not that big
of a deal, just strange. I want to connect it to the turnigy 80100 with a 12mm shaft, so I'll have to do some tricks.

[j3tch1u]

Its weird....I don't know about the coupling you have....but they broached it all the way through, and then took a boring bar
and bored out the splines in the middle of the coupling.....

I don't understand why they hit the part with this secondary step. and it's bored out to be greater than 12mm.. not that big
of a deal, just strange. I want to connect it to the turnigy 80100 with a 12mm shaft, so I'll have to do some tricks.

that's part of the prep for broaching..drill through, bore clearance, broach. the cutter needs some clearance to displace the material

[12p3phPMDC]

Ok, that makes sense. But, I think that you can broach something that long no problem, but
it probably saves wear and tear on the broach. You can buy splined bushings from Stock Drive Products that are continuous.
Were the parts you got hardened...? I had no problem cutting it in half and facing it.

Using the D-shaped input was a good idea as well for coupling the first stage of the planetary to the astro.

That's easier than using the coupling, which requires

shaft->coupling->planetary....

yours

shaft->planetary = nice...

[12p3phPMDC]

Ben,

When machining the parts for the MagMax, did you use the rotary table much, or were most of the parts done on the mill?
i.e. bolt circles...and other hole patterns.

I can see using a manual rotary table with indexing plates to do the bolt circles.
Also, a CNC Mill should be able to do this easily enough as well.

I imagine that alot of the boring operations were done on the lathe as well...

I'm in the process of converting an old 1720 XMTC Shop Task 3 in 1 to CNC and appreciate the feedback.

Any machinists, feel free to chime in...

[j3tch1u]

Ben,

When machining the parts for the MagMax, did you use the rotary table much, or were most of the parts done on the mill?
i.e. bolt circles...and other hole patterns.

I can see using a manual rotary table with indexing plates to do the bolt circles.
Also, a CNC Mill should be able to do this easily enough as well.

I imagine that alot of the boring operations were done on the lathe as well...

I'm in the process of converting an old 1720 XMTC Shop Task 3 in 1 to CNC and appreciate the feedback.

Any machinists, feel free to chime in...

12p, sorry i missed this msg and haven't checked up on my own thread.

everything except the finned housing was cnc'd on the mill. the housing was turned on the lathe (fins cut with toolbit i ground for that purpose). i also made a simple jig that does double-duty for faceplate and mounting plate. output shaft keyway and motor shaft d-cut were done manually by jogging the mill. motor shaft had to be turned down a tad as well...

hold motor with both feet, turn tester pot with left hand, place toolbit in mouth and clamp firmly between eye teeth, bend slowly over onto 10,000 rpm spinning motor and turn exactly 3/8" - 8mm off the shaft. pat self on back with right hand. there's your 3 in 1!

[12p3phPMDC]

J3tch1u,

You have been watching too many James bond movies with JAWS in them .....

Although he could have bitten down on them directly!!

I have since come to the conclusion that a rotary table is probably not necessary for the stuff I'm going to do at this point.

Thanks for the update.

[j3tch1u]

Something I am working on. Inspired by the Bimota DB5 motorcycle.

Twin motor, gearbox in the swing-arm hub, 16S cell-man pack. My JD2 model 3 tube bender and Miller Dynasty 200DX welder is over the Pacific. Will do 2 versions of the trellis frame/swing-arm--18G Reynolds 520 chrome-moly and thin-wall 7005 Al to test the limits

So far my compact drive has held up to a beating. However, one night the spokes loosened and i managed to "shudder" my way home. Could be attibuted to: 1. spoke-stretch, 2. one-cross lacing with the nuvinci on my 24 incher or 3. my sub-par wheel lacing skills.

PROTOTYPE4.jpg

(87.15 KiB) Downloaded 3 times

[Miles]

I like it, Ben (apart from the forks)

[j3tch1u]

I like it, Ben (apart from the forks...)

I'm not happy with them either. After blue-printing my Girvins and doing some motion analysis I find the J-effect is difficult to overcome. Did however, replace all the bushings with bearings to avoid that notorious slop over time.

Would really welcome your input on an alternative Miles.

[Mark_A_W]

Can we have some pictures of the bike please?


It looks very interesting.


But....why is the seat so far forward in the real bike and in the CAD model prototype?

[voicecoils]

I like it, Ben (apart from the forks...)

I'm not happy with them either.
...

Hydraulically damped telescopic forks have been pretty popular since the 1930s, is there a particular reason you're pursuing alternative designs?

I'm interested to understand the seat too, I can't quite figure out the positioning either.

The Voltra design concept also uses went for a exposed red trellis frame:
http://www.coroflot.com/public/individual_file.asp?individual_id=228481&portfolio_id=3032334&

[Miles]

Hydraulically damped telescopic forks have been pretty popular since the 1930s....

And they've always been a compromise.....

[j3tch1u]

Can we have some pictures of the bike please?


It looks very interesting.


But....why is the seat so far forward in the real bike and in the CAD model prototype?

mark, pics of my bike are on page 1. the baby bimota has yet to be built (still waiting for my welder and tube bender). the seat is on a parallel link 3-point seatpost. forward for dh/trials type riding, upright for pedalling and rear-ward for high speed tucks. all adjustable from a remote lever. works really well.

[j3tch1u]

I like it, Ben (apart from the forks...)

I'm not happy with them either.
...

Hydraulically damped telescopic forks have been pretty popular since the 1930s, is there a particular reason you're pursuing alternative designs?

I'm interested to understand the seat too, I can't quite figure out the positioning either.

The Voltra design concept also uses went for a exposed red trellis frame:
http://www.coroflot.com/public/individual_file.asp?individual_id=228481&portfolio_id=3032334&

well..they are more rigid than telescoping forks and i can play with different shocks/spring/dampening rates. i think linkage forks can look rad and function well if they are done right.
will also be doing something "special" with the fork legs

the voltra is really nice. i read the interview with dan anderson. i wish i had that kind of talent

[Mark_A_W]

Can we have some pictures of the bike please?


It looks very interesting.


But....why is the seat so far forward in the real bike and in the CAD model prototype?

mark, pics of my bike are on page 1. the baby bimota has yet to be built (still waiting for my welder and tube bender). the seat is on a parallel link 3-point seatpost. forward for dh/trials type riding, upright for pedalling and rear-ward for high speed tucks. all adjustable from a remote lever. works really well.

Please, there is only one picture of the bike, and it's very hard to make out details.


Can we have some MORE PICS PLEASE??

[j3tch1u]

Please, there is only one picture of the bike, and it's very hard to make out details.


Can we have some MORE PICS PLEASE??

mark, there are very clear pictures and details of the parts i had a hand in making which is what i wanted this build thread to be about. there will be pics of a complete bike in logical procession as it is fleshed out. however i won't be posting any more shots of that test mule--it' has already been torn down for blueprinting. you will have to be patient. also, please refrain from using large caps on my build thread--i can hear you just fine

[johnrobholmes]

Nice concept bike! Just a suggestion for your bender, mount it as they suggest. Don't get fancy like I did and try to mount it on the vertical for space reasons, it makes it very hard to actually use.

Can't wait to see what you come up with!

[j3tch1u]

Nice concept bike! Just a suggestion for your bender, mount it as they suggest. Don't get fancy like I did and try to mount it on the vertical for space reasons, it makes it very hard to actually use.

Can't wait to see what you come up with!

thanks for the tip jrh--i was thinking of maybe just bolting it to a work-table with a stand-off--didn't get the stand cuz it would've cost more to ship (already $250 to taiwan). make anything new lately?

[johnrobholmes]

Just made some more handlebars, getting my marking and precision down. I am redoing the front end of my pit bike today too. Not sure if I will need any bends for that frame.

I have drawn up a few bikes. I am almost set on doing a hybrid for my next vehicle. I just can't stand spending $800 on a pack that may only get me 20 miles when I can get a gas setup for a few hundred that will get me 100 miles to the gallon. So maybe I compromise and get a $400 battery pack and have best of both worlds, minus the extra weight?