Aprilia Enjoy

[czach]

No, I didn't see that. Kind of makes sense actually; even with 14 gauge wire from the batteries to limit current this thing has a lot more power.

Finally got the tire replaced and took it out for a ride. I must have a weird controller because I was driving it all over the place and the battery never came close to pooping out. With the stock controller I would have lost power a long while ago. Here it just purrs, drives along, and when it sags going up a hill I just downshift and start pedaling.

One thing I did notice: The motor cut out once while I was testing start stop under load. After a minute it came back, wasn't a battery problem since I could hear the contactor clicking normally. The motor however was hot, is there a thermal breaker inside the motor itself?

Aside from that having one motor speed isn't as bad as one would think; speed can be controlled by the gears, when you hear the motor going slower than a certain speed just downshift to minimize lugging. But man this will make me one very. lazy. biker.

CZ

[Samd]

Some progress inside the gearbox. Not all, but some light forward.

Used a socket set socket (19mm i think) and a hammer and bashed the roller bearing out of the inside of main worn pinion. Result = I now know the pinions that wear go all the way thru. Thought it may be pressed on to the chain ring somehow. You can see down the center inside the main photo. These roller bearings are readily available. You can see the flats I ground to try and twist it off with some big vise grips. No luck. Thought it must be heat pressed for sure...

But under the bright lights I managed to find the end of the thread in the second photo. So I am going to bolt the chainring to a big wooden length (sleeper) with coach bolts, and make up a big torque arm to get the old pinion off.
I think I will need to heat it with an oxy too. I don't have one. Hmmm...

[Hillhater]

Sam, if it is threaded on,..it may just be a LH thread such that the drive load keeps tightening it ??

[tonyontopofabighill]

Hey Guys,

I went out for a ride this morning on my Aprilia city version and now it too is making some weird noises. Maybe there is an Aprilia Enjoy virus going around. Funny that both of your bikes are playing up Sam and now both of mine are too.Do you think it is the extra load from the lipo batteries causing it? My wife is bringing the swapped motor back this arvo for the racing version ,can't wait to put it back together.

Cheers,
Tony.

[Samd]

Roger that Hillhater. It did occur to me that it may be a reverse thread. The part is in the shed but from memory (I think) it is conventional. You can see it with a bit of careful lookery.

I will try to take a video soon of the worn end bearing that I think caused this. It is pretty easy to get to in contrast to my current gear woes....

[Samd]

Well it pays to keep looking on the internet. Apparently there are chain ring crank disassembly tools!
http://www.apriliagenuineparts.co.uk/co ... y-3829.php

Only one way to find out if it works!

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day Sam,

Which of these tools would I need to be able to disassemble the motor/gearbox? Does this mean that you will now be able to continue on with your disassembling problems.

Tony.

[Samd]

Tool 7 and 8 look suspiciously"interlockermeratering".... Thats tech talk...

I am gonna order. And have a go. Happy to send them on to you when done...

Checking vernight if they are in stock as well as replacement gears and bearings. Stand by!

[tonyontopofabighill]

I will take you up on that offer Sam. Thanks mate.

[czach]

Found the reason my Enjoy with contactor control was cutting out; the contactor I grabbed was old and bad. Replaced with a newer one (36v from Elec-trak) and now I have even more motor power.

Which brings up a thought: I've noticed a few people burning out the gears in their box. Is this a common thing? I've noticed that from a standing start throwing the contactor puts a LOT of motor torque on the pedals/gear system. Maybe going 36 volts exceeds the torque ratings of the gears?

This wouldn't be a problem with the normal controller since it ANDs the torque of you pedaling with the motor. But with lazy, 238 pound me sitting on the seat, the motor teeth take it all.

Still debating if I want to put the old controller in and do some sort of a bypass; trick is I would need to wire in a magic relay for the bypass that would share the key loop *and* the brake loop. The bypass could be activated by simply making the speed control switch be "low, high, BYPASS" with bypass dropping out the controller and dropping in the contactor if and only if brakes are off and key is on. Oddly enough with a DPDT relay on this I could just have it switch to contactor and turn on the controller's "brakes" so it stays alive and doesn't try to close it's relay to join in.

Chris
Chris

[tonyontopofabighill]

I got my motor swap from John Sample Automotive in Sydney,it even came with the pedals attached.Apparently it was from a demo model they had.It looked brand new, not a mark on it.I thought this must be too good to be true.Anyway I installed it.By the way has anyone else reinstalled one of these motors.I found it a bit tricky when it came to putting the 3 bolts into place that hold the motor into the frame.The bottom 2 were okay as you can put the nut and washer onto the end of the bolt but the higher of the 3 bolts I found impossible to get the washer and nut onto the bolt.I haven't got any special tools but maybe if you remove the crank and chainring???? Anyway I had to start again and glue the washer and nut to the frame first and then I could get the 3 bolts in with no probs.I got it all back together and thought will this thing go or not and Yes!!! away she went! I am a very happy chappy and cannot believe that i got a good motor by swapping a crook one.I will email John Sample and thank them of course.

Cheers,
Tony.

[tonyontopofabighill]

Parts for sale on ebay for Aprilia Enjoy bikes.They are in the UK.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Genuine- ... _569wt_936

[Samd]

Hell, I just paid a kings ransom for those. At least i got the tools cheap....

[tonyontopofabighill]

Bugger!

[Samd]

Interesting times.

This bottom bracket motor looks extremely similar in dimensions. But it is brushless.
http://www.bofeili.com/cn/index.aspx

I think my aprilia motor is 89mm radius where it bolts up against the frame. And these seem to be 88mm on the drawing. Maybe even the three bolt holes look the same.
It would be easy to make a plate to adapt the aprilia even if it didnt fit.

So this may be a good replacement rather than stuffing around with gears inside the box.

Switching the 15 amp controller for a 30 amp unit and you'd have brushless for about 800 watts or so - which could be a good replacement for the aprilia brushed unit.
http://www.bmsbattery.com/central-motor ... motor.html

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19872&start=30#p372524

Even if it isnt as good a powerplant for starting torque, the top speed at 36 volts is at least in the range.

I have a spare aprilia frameset. I guess i know what I want for my birthday.

Meanwhile, still awaiting my aprilia tools and sprockets from italy so i can repair one of my bikes...

[tonyontopofabighill]

Anyone know anything about this one.What is the thingy under the handlebars? for starters????


http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl= ... &dur=12130

[Hillhater]

Hmm, ? thats an oddball for sure !
some odd bracketry infront of the motor/controller area.
Even the seatpost is different,..angled back much more than the others ?
I wonder if it was a higher powered version for the USA or somewhere without the 250W limit

[Carlosco]

Hi,

I bougth an Aprilia Enjoy City in 2001 in Spain and I used it for some time without any problem. It has been some years in the garage and now the battery only runs for a few kilometers.

I read in page 23 of this post that it is possible to replace the battery with lipo batteries. I'm thinking in 6s (24 v) batteries just to mantain the original control that for the city is perfect, specially for crossing the semaphores.

Have anyone tried to use 6s lipo batteries?. In fact I'm thinking in using two 3s batteries connected in serie. I have disassembled the original battery and the battery also has to supply 12 V

Is it possible to use the original charger with these lipo batteries.

Regards,

Carlos

[Samd]

The original charger wont work. The original batts had two banks of 12v to output both 12v (controller) and 24v (motor). You could just replace them with new nimh batts. Using lipo with the old controller may make it accelerate randomly and hard, stripping your gearbox inside.

You could put in a modern controller with 6s, but your top speed will drop proportionately compared to 8s.

[drekkus]

Hi,

I bougth an Aprilia Enjoy City in 2001 in Spain and I used it for some time without any problem. It has been some years in the garage and now the battery only runs for a few kilometers.

I read in page 23 of this post that it is possible to replace the battery with lipo batteries. I'm thinking in 6s (24 v) batteries just to mantain the original control that for the city is perfect, specially for crossing the semaphores.

Have anyone tried to use 6s lipo batteries?. In fact I'm thinking in using two 3s batteries connected in serie. I have disassembled the original battery and the battery also has to supply 12 V

Is it possible to use the original charger with these lipo batteries.

Regards,

Carlos

I have been toying with the idea of replacing the existing batteries with LiPos once they become useless. I was going to look at using the existing battery box and squeezing in a couple of 6s Lipos. But now I'm thinking more along the lines of a rear rack set up and using the the existing battery area for storage obviously keeping the lid and lock. This way I get something that is ready made instead of having to come up with what could be cumbersome wiring and charging. It may be possible to even keep the existing controller.


I have just got my second bike back on the road after going the replacement controller and throttle control.Took a bit longer than expected due to twice getting dodgy thumb controllers. The result is not bad. You can certainly get a decent bit of speed on the flat with 24v and in fact I seem to be getting better range. 36v may be an option for the other bike when the time comes. The only disappointment has been the charge indicator. Its accurate but the voltage doesn't drop off the way I expected. By the time the power becomes useless the indicator has only dropped 2 bars ( its a 10 bar indicator) but checking with a volt meter shows it is displaying correctly for the voltage the battery still has. Its still good enough to go off and maybe LiPos would be more suited.

[Samd]

If you go here you will see how I mounted the lipos int he battery box:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=18505&start=210

and here is more on that, and a digital voltmeter that fits in the standard cover. Why use a binary off/on LED system when you can have 0.1 volt readout - car's don't have a fuel gauge that says either full or empty with nothing inbetween - I don't know why so many throttles and ebikes come with binary voltmeters, makes no sense...
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=18505&start=165

If you read the full topic thread you will see that:
- nimh's aren't much fun at all, but better than SLAs
- the stock controller is crappy as it has a mind of its own
- lipos arent difficult to fit if you can afford it
- the controller is easy to change for about 30 bucks....

Just gotta be careful putting too many amps down at standstill and wearing the gearbox.
My new gearbox parts arrive today!

Cheers.

[Samd]

Or, borrowing an earlier crash course technique from Hyena:

New Picture (1).gif (222.2 KiB) Viewed 552 times

[Samd]

Mystery solved. New gear and tools arrived today. Reverse thread on the gear.

[Carlosco]

Hi,

Thank you for your information. I’m really impressed reading the whole post and all the work done.

I just asked about the experience with 6s LiPo’s and the original control because I think that maintaining the original control is the safest option for the bike. I have some doubts about the behaviour and the % of the energy used at the cutof voltage around 20 V stated in previous pages.
In my opinion, replacing the NiMh battery by another LiPo battery of the same voltage does not affect the electric or mechanical transmission as this is only related with speed and torque, mechanically related with the opposite forces, likely aerodynamic force and the slope of the road.

I would like to give my point of view, that can be wrong due to the fact that I’m not still familiar with the insides of the transmissions and also due to my lack of knowledge about some electric questions described here. Please excuse me If something is wrong.

Looking in google, I found a description of the characteristics of DC motors (http://www.globe-motors.com/dc_motor.pdf) and basically they are two rules:

• Curve Torque – Speed is defined by design of the DC motor. At the design stage, the constants of the motor are defined.
• Voltage determines Speed and torque will determine current. Different voltages define parallel curves increasing the speed at no load and also the torque at different speeds.

Based on this I think that applying a nominal of 36 V is “good” as the maximum speed is increased (50 km/h reported) and also the torque will be increased, really good for climbing hills, but the question is that I presume that the electric motor and the gearbox are not prepared for this. Usually it is stated that the Aprilia Enjoy is oversized but I doubt that the motor and gearbox will be, simply based on design rationality and in the evidences of the failures reported in this thread.

I have some experience in gearboxes as I have been working in a gearbox for WTG manufacturer company and even I can not see details from the pictures I agree with some posts saying that the origin of the damage is coming from bearings. It is unlikey that increasing a 50% of the nominal torque the gears get damaged with some hundreds of km. In my opinion a problem on the lubrication or in the preload of one bearing related with the increase load/speed and the increase of temperature associate could originate the failure.
The electric motor also would be checked, especially if it used at low speed. At high speed the refrigeration of the motor will be increased.

I think that using the original control and the speed and torque sensors working will help to maintain it safely. I could agree to replace the speed sensor by a throttle control as even if the motor works more time it does it along his original curve.

[Carlosco]

I have been toying with the idea of replacing the existing batteries with LiPos once they become useless. I was going to look at using the existing battery box and squeezing in a couple of 6s Lipos. But now I'm thinking more along the lines of a rear rack set up and using the the existing battery area for storage obviously keeping the lid and lock. This way I get something that is ready made instead of having to come up with what could be cumbersome wiring and charging. It may be possible to even keep the existing controller.


I have just got my second bike back on the road after going the replacement controller and throttle control.Took a bit longer than expected due to twice getting dodgy thumb controllers. The result is not bad. You can certainly get a decent bit of speed on the flat with 24v and in fact I seem to be getting better range. 36v may be an option for the other bike when the time comes. The only disappointment has been the charge indicator. Its accurate but the voltage doesn't drop off the way I expected. By the time the power becomes useless the indicator has only dropped 2 bars ( its a 10 bar indicator) but checking with a volt meter shows it is displaying correctly for the voltage the battery still has. Its still good enough to go off and maybe LiPos would be more suited.

I will consider to place the battery in the rear and use the existing area for storage. I have read that the batteries should be connected in parallel for charging and get the batteries balanced, but for using them it is better to have them connected in serial.

In the following link: http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_i ... 3261731040, there are some photos with three 6s batteries in parallel and he says that he has included another 3s battery for the controller. He also says that 10 kg is saved with this modification (I do not know the total weight of the battery but it seems too much for me).

For sure I will replace the battery indicator as it is clear that it does not give too much information.

Thank you for your comments.