The *Genesis* is only the begining...

[crossbreak]

Here's the start of my tutorial:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=36767

[GITech]

Hi crossbreak, Thank you! I've posted in your thread too. Just mentioning it here so those that havent seen don't think I've ignored you.

Ok, I finaly have at least enough of the parts to see if it will all fit, and get actual measurements so I can update my drawing..so I can get the custom swingarm made.

Here's some pics of it mocked up. This is just enough pieces that I can check the fit, etc. I dont' even have the torque limiter shaved down to 41mm width yet. Yay!

It's going to work!









Thud, have the parts arrived to you yet? I have to send you a few of these parts too. PS: Yes, that's 'the' roller bearing..I couldn't resist my curiosity!

Later,
Jay

[Thud]

where did you get that old turnigy? (no skirt bearing)
if you logged an account at SC...you can log in & track it. I havn't seen it yet, they usealy get stuff to me in 3 or 4 days.

[crossbreak]

Looks good. I think your controller and your battery are too weak You should use your 18 fet with 3077s Do you already have halls in your motor? I'll try with a 12 FET first too. I agree that it's better to finish the mechanics first.

How will you controll the clutch? Do you have a lever on your handle bar?

[GITech]

where did you get that old turnigy? (no skirt bearing)
if you logged an account at SC...you can log in & track it. I havn't seen it yet, they usealy get stuff to me in 3 or 4 days.

I've had that old 80-100-130... This project has been ~2 years in the making..er..wishing! I've been selling my own stuff to fund the build so far. Xbox360 gone (crazy for me), kinect gone, games almost gone, outrunner modified RC dirtbike gone, and more. This will continue till all I have left is the bike, probably. Anyone interested in what I might have for sale? PM me. I'm a stay at home dad, it makes more sense right now with a newborn and my wife has a better job than I did.

I have logged an account, actually their system thinks I've done it 3 times and it's bugged. I had to make your order by phone, so I need to call them to see where it's at.

Looks good. I think your controller and your battery are too weak You should use your 18 fet with 3077s Do you already have halls in your motor? I'll try with a 12 FET first too. I agree that it's better to finish the mechanics first.

How will you controll the clutch? Do you have a lever on your handle bar?

Thanks!

Hehe, I think that's a joke, right?!

I don't have any controller or batts yet. Well, not anything that will be perminent. I've got a few lipos and super simple ESC. Though I do plan to eventually have the full suite of stuff like a 12-18 fet with 3077's, a cycle analyst, 59.9v or 66.6 volt 20ah worth of lipo.

No halls, infact I think I will need a new motor so I can rewind it, and that will be the one that gets halls or the optical sensor thingy.

Not sure yet how I will shift it, but the click-shift that came with the bike might be good for this use. we'll have to wait and see. Any suggestions?

Later,
Jay

[crossbreak]

it makes more sense right now with a newborn and my wife has a better job than I did.

now you're waste for our consumer society that's really sad (ok you buy ebike stuff, but that's not enough for the omnivore economy) there should be so much room in our society for us. We're those who lead(?) our world into a better society. Maybe we should instead invent things which reciycle things

But today 95% percent of our oil is burned !!! I do so myself.

why should we?!?



Ok I heat and drive with natural gas.....

Ok I'm just joking... but there's so much scence for that I could'nt bear my live without.

once a economist in my country said that he asks himself why people ask him when his solar heat armortizes. He had so much fun under his solar powered shower that he didn't ask himself. He called that add value. Noone asks for the armotisation when one buys a Mercedes Benz.

Your idea about the grip shift isn't so wrong. you should use a left hand 3-speed one that comes with all thos chain-shift bikes. Maybe you could get a 2-Speed one (thy are also avialable) at the bays for cheap. You could also get a 2-speed thumb shifter

[GITech]

it makes more sense right now with a newborn and my wife has a better job than I did.

now you're waste for our consumer society that's really sad (ok you buy ebike stuff, but that's not enough for the omnivore economy) there should be so much room in our society for us. We're those who lead(?) our world into a better society. Maybe we should instead invent things which recycle things

But today 95% percent of our oil is burned !!! I do so myself.

why should we?!?



Ok I heat and drive with natural gas.....

Ok I'm just joking... but there's so much science for that I couldn't bear my live without.

once a economist in my country said that he asks himself why people ask him when his solar heat amortizes. He had so much fun under his solar powered shower that he didn't ask himself. He called that add value. No one asks for the amortization when one buys a Mercedes Benz.

Your idea about the grip shift isn't so wrong. you should use a left hand 3-speed one that comes with all those chain-shift bikes. Maybe you could get a 2-Speed one (thy are also available) at the bays for cheap. You could also get a 2-speed thumb shifter

Yea, our society is in trouble..period. That is the main reason I'm doing my ebike..To get around when things start to fall apart, and to have "a prototype" that I can show off so anyone that sees me and is interested can have a test drive and become a potential buyer of one for themselves.

So my main reason: It may benefit my family in the future. That's it! This is not just for fun. And I'm trying to make it simple and robust so it will last a good long while.

The rest of the (cool!) stuff I accumulated over the years is starting to look like nothing more than dead weight in a changing world. Ya know.

Good idea! I will have to start that research soon!

I got my rear tire back from the bike shop! Yay, but he laced it wrong. This rim is designed for criss-cross lacing where say.. the left side hub flange should be laced to the right side holes in the rim for a greater degree of triangulation and lateral strength. he said he would fix it but I decided to take it for now so I could get some measurements from it.

Lily sais YUM-YUM daddy! ..9 months old..taller than a 1yr old..and walking ALL the time already!


Later,
Jay

[LI-ghtcycle]

it makes more sense right now with a newborn and my wife has a better job than I did.

now you're waste for our consumer society that's really sad (ok you buy ebike stuff, but that's not enough for the omnivore economy) there should be so much room in our society for us. We're those who lead(?) our world into a better society. Maybe we should instead invent things which recycle things

But today 95% percent of our oil is burned !!! I do so myself.

why should we?!?



Ok I heat and drive with natural gas.....

Ok I'm just joking... but there's so much science for that I couldn't bear my live without.

once a economist in my country said that he asks himself why people ask him when his solar heat amortizes. He had so much fun under his solar powered shower that he didn't ask himself. He called that add value. No one asks for the amortization when one buys a Mercedes Benz.

Your idea about the grip shift isn't so wrong. you should use a left hand 3-speed one that comes with all those chain-shift bikes. Maybe you could get a 2-Speed one (thy are also available) at the bays for cheap. You could also get a 2-speed thumb shifter

Yea, our society is in trouble..period. That is the main reason I'm doing my ebike..To get around when things start to fall apart, and to have "a prototype" that I can show off so anyone that sees me and is interested can have a test drive and become a potential buyer of one for themselves.

So my main reason: It may benefit my family in the future. That's it! This is not just for fun. And I'm trying to make it simple and robust so it will last a good long while.

The rest of the (cool!) stuff I accumulated over the years is starting to look like nothing more than dead weight in a changing world. Ya know.

Good idea! I will have to start that research soon!

I got my rear tire back from the bike shop! Yay, but he laced it wrong. This rim is designed for criss-cross lacing where say.. the left side hub flange should be laced to the right side holes in the rim for a greater degree of triangulation and lateral strength. he said he would fix it but I decided to take it for now so I could get some measurements from it.

Lily sais YUM-YUM daddy! ..9 months old..taller than a 1yr old..and walking ALL the time already!


Later,
Jay

A future E-Biker in the making I see! Too bad she's walking already or you might have had her on an E-Bike before learning to walk?

Great build, and cute pic of your daughter!

[GITech]

Thanks LI-ghtcycle!

Lily says "Ba-ba-mop-dop".. Translation: Thank you too!

Per Thud's advice I think I've come up with an easy way to do the SFRA. Thud; have you found the pics of how you did yours?

It consists of:
1x Custom bored (and drilled BCD to match the adapters) sprocket.
2x Identical adapter plates.
5x Shock absorbing inserts.

The shock absorbing inserts each consist of 2x half round end-caps (shown in RED, metal rod cut in half), and a molded elastomer "core" (shown in light yellow).

The width of the inserts is just a guess as this could be different depending on need for load handling without deforming in a bad way. (?)

Mating notches might need to be made in the end-caps so they center themselves and stay in place (by a simple tight fit?).

Note: the big blue gear is not shaped correctly (on it's ID). I don't feel like changing it as sketchup wants to give me all kinds of problems when I do.






Who likes the idea? This might be a really good solution for protecting the drive train from shock damage, especially freewheels (anything with "pawls") and any setup that uses toothed gears for reduction (cyclone, etc)

And maybe the shock absorbing inserts could be a cash/marketing cow if they were available in different versions for different 'needs', and they may need to be replaced from time to time?!

Later,
Jay

Edit: Oh, and yes my freewheel teeth suck! I just wanted the correct OD so that's as far as I took it.

[Thud]

Alright J,

Here is my take on the cush drive mount for controlling the shock loads in the drive chain.

(i didnt draw the teeth)

Its a simple mold to make for casting the elastomer with a crush sleeve directly into it along with a 16g retaining plate to hold the sprocket on the adapter to freewheel, making it an intragal assembly. The sprocket is modded with a single pass with a 1"d end mill. (6 times)

This is a quick & dirty one on a lexan monster sprocket, its soft rubber hose with a aluminum tube crush sleeve. i slipped the tube inside the hose & choped the lengths on the band saw. fender washers to keep the sprocket retained on the adapter.



This gives aprox .125" of shock absorption...the lexan sporckets run very quiet when compaired to the alloy ones.

[GITech]

Nice Thud!

Thanks for taking the time to look for those pics!

All fit up! ...well maybe 90%?! SketchUp does suck for precision, It's only good down to 1mm!

Check it!

I'm thinkin' of black, white and red for the bikes colors, and maybe even the dark blue and red big gears if I can.






Lily needs my attn...

Later,
Jay



Edit: Ok, I'm back. Yea, I know E-racer! I will at the right time. It'd be a waist to redo all this now, ya know?! Unless I can use this file in a real CAD program? I know people move files from real CAD programs to SketchUp. I'll have to look it up some more.

I guess it's been a good start for getting my feet wet. It can be quite buggy and frustrating to work with ~and around~ the limited tools available. It's a challenge and fun to try and make the program do stuff...uh..it doesn't like to do..though!

How 'bout the "SFRA" or as Thud calls it, the "Cush Drive"? Look at all that "Cush"!

Thud called my SFRA in a PM "it is a absolute requirment if guys are going to use real "gears" in a reduction unit", and I say "and/or freewheels too"!

[E-racer]

you need to get a real cad package. Autodesk products are free if you have a .edu email acct.

[Miles]

you need to get a real cad package. Autodesk products are free if you have a .edu email acct.

Solid Edge is free, even if you don't: http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/e ... tudent.cfm Also, it's nothing to do with Megalodesk

[GITech]

Awesome! Thanks guys

Busy hangin with the family...

Later,
Jay

[gensem]

Jay, do you have a clue about the power that plan to run? roughly?

[GITech]

Jay, do you have a clue about the power that plan to run? roughly?

I'm looking at a rewound ~100kv 80-100 motor (I'm thinking Zig-Zag DLRK in delta, 2x11turns I think but not sure yet, AWG=not sure yet), 18 fet controller with 3077 fets because of my "lower" ~60v voltage, a cycle analyst, and 20Ah/1+KWh worth of capacity.

Anyway, sorry I've been away, but believe me I'm working my tail off over here trying to build up funds for my build, and working with Thud on the drive train!

I should at least have some new drawings ready to show here soon.

Later,
Jay

[thepronghorn]

Perhaps you may want to backorder these items you speak of..... That way you can sort of "get in line" to buy these items.

[GITech]

Hi thepronghorn,

I can't tell you how much I'd love too.

A few days ago I had just enough cash to buy 8 of them, enough to get me going. I'm a stay at home dad selling off my "old" stuff to finance this build as it can save me money over time down the road (pun ), ya know.

During the last couple of months of my last car and my job my 'old' car, a 1991 ford (butt) probe was really falling apart and I got 4 tickets for crap like one for the muffler and another for a tail light in about a 1 month period of time. I had just moved out of the "city" and into the "suburbs" so you know how these cops are towards not so nice cars! Though, that car WAS just unsafe to drive anymore, so I got another car (1995 buick lesabre) with it's windows broken out and slashed tires for $300 and it cost me ~$900 dollars total to put it on the road. It is a "florida" car so it has less rust underneath it than it has in its' roof and runs good and quiet! But, as when it rains it 'poors' (pun?!) that's when I lost my job so the tickets went un-answered, and now I have 3 'stupid' suspensions on my license. Shame on me, yea.. but sometimes that's how the cookie crumbles. Anyway, I still drive when I need to. In the 17 years I've been driving I've never had an accident with another car, and I've had two RX-7's so...they can suck it!

I've got my front wheelset up in the for sale section, any takers/traders/helpers? viewtopic.php?f=9&t=37318

Take care and TTYL,
Jay

[gensem]

As requested...




Dont know how it is in action but it does look good
(might need to swap the 600lbs spring for a 300-400one)

[crossbreak]

You should keep an eye on chain tension if you want to build them yourself. It isn't as easy as it seems. I broke 2 chains yet because my mine (third tenstioner) failed. Maybe my fourth attempt might interest you (it's not my design but it shows the principle). It varys the distance between the axles (it's not usable on a shaft, you need a hub for the gears or an additional ball bearing in the sheet):

[GITech]

As requested...




Dont know how it is in action but it does look good
(might need to swap the 600lbs spring for a 300-400one)

Thanks Gensem, have you had a chance to try it out yet?

You should keep an eye on chain tension if you want to build them yourself. It isn't as easy as it seems. I broke 2 chains yet because my mine (third tenstioner) failed. Maybe my fourth attempt might interest you (it's not my design but it shows the principle). It varys the distance between the axles (it's not usable on a shaft, you need a hub for the gears):

Crossbreak, Did you post this in the wrong thread? Build what myself? You couldn't have known I had a change of plan to make the swingarm myself. What are these?


Onto an update:

Ok, I've let you all think I'm in trouble with this build for too long. Sorry I haven't updated the thread sooner as my fortune has changed.

So things have turned around and the build is moving forward at a good pace thanks to a generous donation from a loved one. I have ordered the lipos and now have nearly everything here to do the build, yea!

I have also decided to do the custom swingarm myself in alu! I just need to find someone to weld it all up now. (anyone? )

Sorry I don't have much time to finish this at the moment. Here's some quick pics:













The blue transparent outline is the original/symmetrical design. I have had to add 12mm to and offset the left side to make room so the brake rotor/caliper and the 2nd gear sprocket would all have clearance.


Thanks guys and TTYL,
Jay

[kevo]

So things have turned around and the build is moving forward at a good pace

Glad to hear it, watching your thread with great interest. Great drawings and you're wise to use Thud's expertise to get you through!

[gensem]

Im yet to test it... still waiting on the frame and swing arm.

[GITech]

So things have turned around and the build is moving forward at a good pace

Glad to hear it, watching your thread with great interest. Great drawings and you're wise to use Thud's expertise to get you through!

Yes, Thuds advice has been invaluable! I would have even ended up making it wrong and doing it twice I'm sure if it wasn't for thuds advice!

For example; that the 2nd gear side would need more clearance in order for the brake rotor and calliper to have room. What a great guy, I'm tellin' ya! He has made some quite long and detailed emails that have really helped me out and have furthered my understanding and awareness of a lot of things! Above and beyond!

And thanks man!

Im yet to test it... still waiting on the frame and swing arm.

Ah, ok. Thanks for the update! Slow shipping?

[crossbreak]

Crossbreak, Did you post this in the wrong thread? Build what myself? You couldn't have known I had a change of plan to make the swingarm myself. What are these?

I meant the chain tensioners, do you build them yourself? i see that in your design it's possible to move the rear axle, that's not sufficient without support (even not for most pedal bikes, if you pedal hard). The picture I posted would be a great tensioner (or tension-keeper). If you just tighten the nuts of you rear axle without additional support, it will start to move when you pull the throttle and the chain tension will be lost, then your backwheel stuck on the frame or the chain may crack.

You also need a tensioner for the chain from the motor to the jackshaft. I can't see any in your design. Maybe you should consider to make the motor mount screws also relocatable in by slots like you did with your rear axle. You won't need a tension-keeper for this chain because chain pull will be much weaker.