Let's hear it from the Mid-Drive Kit Owners !

Mid-Drive Kit Owners:
GNG - (version and V & W)
or
Bafang (version and V & W)

If you had to buy again Today-
What one would you pick ?
and from where ?
I would only have small hills like overpass's, on and off ramp's
and only want a range of maybe 7 to 10 miles
speed top end of maybe 30 mph?

I'm leaning towards this one
BBS02 750W

Or should a first time builder/owner
just go for a DD in the 1,000 watt range?
maybe a couple of geared hubs (front and rear)?
Been reading WAY to much for over 2 years
That isn't getting me on the way to
ride with more fun
I'm seeking

Thanks

You get what you pay for, i'd get another AFT kit every time. If you're experienced and mechanically minded a cheaper one might be ok, so long as you are capable of fixing any bugs and issues they seem to come with.
I'm looking at building a second AFT mid drive for my Dad, who is now on his fourth hub drive, second controller, and second throttle and power controller (and he's only done about 200km).
Buy a cheap setup at your own risk.

what is aft mid drive?

Aft kits are cyclone based but with all the bugs already sorted out.
http://www.af-tech.com.au/Products_Ebikes.html
Check them out. I'm very happy with mine
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=59063

the bbs is rather reliable. much more than the cyclone.

AFT is unproven yet. not many people use it. why?

cost perhaps?

I own two systems bbs02 750w on a santa cruz heckler bike and a chain driven GNG 450w on a kona stinky bike. I prefer the bbso2 for flater terain and lower maintenance VS the GNG for extreme climbing ability and downhill action and I also love the low temperatures of the GNG.My next build will be a aft 1680w extreme kit they look AWESOME light and powerful the best of both worlds ideal! and of course mounted to a giant glory down hill bike super plush suspension and superb brakes.

cwah said:

the bbs is rather reliable. much more than the cyclone.

AFT is unproven yet. not many people use it. why?

Click to expand...

AFT kits have added full ceramic bearings, molybdenum oil filled gearbox, oil sealed motor, better freewheels and cranks, motor heatsink, rigid mounting system, gear covers, noise suppressing shields, fully programmable controller, etc etc.
the ES members who Do have them have zero complaints.
The OP asked for recommendations, thats what I recommend, and i'd buy another one without thinking twice.
Its more expensive initially, but looking at the hassles people have with everything else, seems well worth it.
Just my opinion.

Mmmm, if you first have to ask "what is aft mid drive?" then I think a subsequent big statement such as "AFT is unproven yet" needs to be regarded as a bit contestable.

Nothing is really 'proven'. There are obviously products that are better understood than others with regard to limitations, best uses etc. But even reliable products can be driven beyond their limits within what some might regard as 'normal use'. I'm a casual and relatively recent student of the e-bike market but I do understand that there are plenty of products that, while respected and well known are probably still 'unproven'. I don't think you can ever deal with absolutes in this business. The very popular BBSxx, now still only about 12 months old, obviously still has a few glitches to iron out so it too surely remains 'unproven'.

There are plenty of people in the AFT's home market (not the USA btw) who regard it and it's designer very highly. It's expensive, well beyond my own finances and probably unsuited to my pedestrian needs, but on paper at least it seems like a dinkum effort to build a better mousetrap!

Savvas

by cwah » Tue May 20, 2014 7:54 pm
the bbs is rather reliable. much more than the cyclone.
AFT is unproven yet. not many people use it. why?
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Re: Let's hear it from the Mid-Drive Kit Owners !
Postby Animalector » Tue May 20, 2014 9:28 pm
cost perhaps?

Click to expand...

CWAH I think you have it backwards the cyclone type of kits have been around for a long time now and many people have confirmed they have been reliable but with a few small issues, and if anything the BBS and GNG are the newest kits and unproven yet and the BBS seems to have lots of problems with the internal controllers. The AFT kit seems to be the next step on the cyclone and they have improved a lot of the cyclone kit problems and its the only kit to use ceramic bearings I think?

A mid drive kit seems to be a lot harder to make reliable then a hub motor hence why they are more costly. But then they have all the benefits of high efficiency. Look at the GNG kit, yes it works and is cheap..but it's costly to maintain. it's so flimsy with so many problem Lightning rods has had to redesign everything, hence why high quality and reliable mid drives are more costly so I think buyer beware with the cheaper mid drive kits.

Also it says a lot that Worksman will upgrade from a BBS2 and GNG kit to the AFT kit

The only "kit" mid-drives I currently own are a few Cyclones and one GNG original belt drive model. All of my other mid-drives are stuff I threw together myself. Pointers I would make on each of the "kit" mid-drives would be:

Cyclone = Always go with their gear head motor that has an external controller, the smaller gear head motors with internal controllers you burn out internal controllers (which are fairly expensive part, long wait to get part shipped to you, and lots of work to replace since its buried fairly deep inside), I burned out several of them and have heard reports of others doing likewise. Converted my one internal controller cyclone gear head motor to use an external controller finally (lots of annoying work but worth it) and haven't had a problem since with it and have two other cyclone motors where I was smart enough to get the external controller gear head motor from the get go and they have been fine. Nothing beyond normal wear and tear and general maintenance required. stick to 24V or just slightly more if you want to pedal along with them at full throttle, 36V system usually spins too fast to pedal along with a full throttle, haven't tried 48V but figure it would be even more so with even faster spin at full throttle.

GNG = I currently have only one of these and its an original first version belt drive unit. To keep it from tearing up belts and trying to tear itself apart in general and have it the right speed to pedal along with I had to drop both the voltage from 48V to 38.4V and the peak current down from 22A to 15A (by using a different controller then the stock unit) and at that lower voltage and lower amps with less over all power, slightly lower RPMs and slightly lower torque it works pretty good and pretty reliable and doesn't try to tear itself apart. Still occasionally have to replace a belt or chain when it gets worn and have had to replace a few bearings in the unit but I have put a whole lot of miles on it as a commuter though as well often in really nasty weather conditions road muck including winter salt crud and all and I'm surprised how well it has taken the abuse.



I don't consider either of those two "kit" units I have experience with to be ideal or the best that is out there by any means but done properly either one can be made to pull fairly reliable all weather year around commuter duty. You asked so I shared my personal results with them and what I know about them. Cyclone = get external controller geared motor head. GNG = downgrade it and run it at lower power to keep it from tearing itself apart.

As to AFT, well a few of the improvements they make to the stock cyclone I've made to my cyclones and they are definitely improvements so a full package deal with all the improvements (still always going with the external motor controller gear head motor with AFT as well) that AFT offers a full premium package deal has got to be a really sweat system. Don't know for sure since I don't own one but based on me coping only a couple of their improvements on my stock cyclones their full premium level drive with all the improvements has got to be one nice system !!!

If you don't have hardly any hills you might really want to look into just going with a simple hub motor. Personally I'm partial to the more powerful bigger internally gear reduced hub-motors if I'm going to use a hub-motor not the little 200-300 watt things the bigger internally gear reduced hub motors that pull at least 500-watts like EM3EV sells. I've only got one direct drive hub motor that is actually used as a hub motor in the wheel (as apposed to using it as a mid-drive power source stoker-monkey style) and I don't really like it all that much especially when it comes to pedaling only with the motor off but the more powerful bigger internally gear reduced hub motors I've had some pretty decent results from for just a hub motor and you don't get any extra drag beyond their weight and rotational mass from them for pedaling only unlike a direct drive hub where you have to fight the cogging of the motor magnets and poles.

dypsomaniart said:

You get what you pay for, i'd get another AFT kit every time. If you're experienced and mechanically minded a cheaper one might be ok, so long as you are capable of fixing any bugs and issues they seem to come with.
I'm looking at building a second AFT mid drive for my Dad, who is now on his fourth hub drive, second controller, and second throttle and power controller (and he's only done about 200km).
Buy a cheap setup at your own risk.

Click to expand...

Well, I'm not an hub lover, and I know AFT are among the best Cyclone based systems, but hey...200 km 4 hubs 2 controllers 2 throttles.....there's someone here that is still using the same bafang or 9C or Clyte motor with the same controller from more than 30000 miles and many many years....your comparison is not correct....
.......Also AFT are known to have a very high price (can you tell us, please, how much you paid and for which version?)
As middrive I own actually a BBS 02 750w (430$) and an Astro RC mid-drive (1200$) also I've mounted some cyclone in various wattages, and a pair of GNG (stock belt and modded belt versions ).
I think the first question to note is that considering the stock form, the BBS is way simpler and better working without issues than the others, it is a better final, commercial, product, without any doubt. It is A true complete conversion kit, you only need batteries and one among the 90% of the compatible bikes to go...
The GNG in LR or any other good custom version, is the best performer, and it is fully programmable with easy variations in voltages and current settings, and I will go there for that range of price or in any case for a more powerful setup and for a better off-road bike, A giant DH team or any other 100mm BB dh bike with a gigapipe 100, good cranks/freewheel and a well tuned modded belt GNG drive, could be one of the best off-road e-MTB to build actually for the cost.
The Cyclone is the one I wouldn't consider for a simple reason, it works good and is proven to works well from years, but for the stock as for the AFT or EGO improved kits there is always something better (for me) at that range of price/performance and for the same use.

BBS is definitively the best buy in term of price, quality and finish, mostly If true offroad and power are not required and if easiness is welcome. GNG is better if you would spend a bit more and you want a more powerful and upgradable system, and you like to service and pay attention to your vehicles and have basic skills as mechanic.

panurge said:

dypsomaniart said:

You get what you pay for, i'd get another AFT kit every time. If you're experienced and mechanically minded a cheaper one might be ok, so long as you are capable of fixing any bugs and issues they seem to come with.
I'm looking at building a second AFT mid drive for my Dad, who is now on his fourth hub drive, second controller, and second throttle and power controller (and he's only done about 200km).
Buy a cheap setup at your own risk.

Click to expand...

Well, I'm not an hub lover, and I know AFT are among the best Cyclone based systems, but hey...200 km 4 hubs 2 controllers 2 throttles.....there's someone here that is still using the same bafang or 9C or Clyte motor with the same controller from more than 30000 miles and many many years....your comparison is not correct....
.......Also AFT are known to have a very high price (can you tell us, please, how much you paid and for which version?)
As middrive I own actually a BBS 02 750w (430$) and an Astro RC mid-drive (1200$) also I've mounted some cyclone in various wattages, and a pair of GNG (stock belt and modded belt versions ).
I think the first question to note is that considering the stock form, the BBS is way simpler and better working without issues than the others, it is a better final, commercial, product, without any doubt. It is A true complete conversion kit, you only need batteries and one among the 90% of the compatible bikes to go...
The GNG in LR or any other good custom version, is the best performer, and it is fully programmable with easy variations in voltages and current settings, and I will go there for that range of price or in any case for a more powerful setup and for a better off-road bike, A giant DH team or any other 100mm BB dh bike with a gigapipe 100, good cranks/freewheel and a well tuned modded belt GNG drive, could be one of the best off-road e-MTB to build actually for the cost.
The Cyclone is the one I wouldn't consider for a simple reason, it works good and is proven to works well from years, but for the stock as for the AFT or EGO improved kits there is always something better (for me) at that range of price/performance and for the same use.

BBS is definitively the best buy in term of price, quality and finish, mostly If true offroad and power are not required and if easiness is welcome. GNG is better if you would spend a bit more and you want a more powerful and upgradable system, and you like to service and pay attention to your vehicles and have basic skills as mechanic.

Click to expand...

Hey jules, my aft 1680w with every possible upgrade and option was $2600(au).
It sounds as though you have bought at least 6 different systems over the years, and likely spent far more than that on upgrades and mods. How much have you spent looking for a decent setup? If the GNG is so good, why did you buy a bbs02? If the astro system was supposed to be the best, why did you then buy a GNG? (Can you tell us please, how much money you've wasted on all these options when an AFT system is still better?)
I opted to just buy something good from the start and skip all the crap inbetween.

My dad bought a no name 1000w hub from dillenger ebikes online, and it has been one failure after another, all covered by warranty, but a pain nonetheless. I have no doubt that there are good hub motors out there, but a cheap system is cheap for a reason. I also feel that the weight distribution of a hub motor is detrimental to handling, unless all you want to do is roll along the road- in which case it is fine.

A bbs system might be the best cheap option as you say, but do you really belive it's the BEST option? The OP made no mention of being a penny pincher, it sounded more like he wanted to find a good, trouble free system.
I must admit though, for the slight inclines and short mileage the OP mentions, a bbs system, as you say, would likely be adequate. But if money isnt a huge obstacle, and you dont want to have to upgrade or modify or settle for "adequate", I stand by my recommendation of AFT.

It's like a disagreement I had with a customer saying how good his turnigy lipos were in his RC truck. I let him try my MAXAMPS pack, and he was blown away. But then he argued that he could buy three turnigy for the price of one maxamps.
"Why would you WANT three of them, when you could have one of these?" I replied.
We ended up both insisting we were right.
Each to their own.

Sounds like an Apple thread. My setup is better than yours type stuff.

I'll chime in as a relative ebike newbie. I had a hub motor. Had to replace spokes all the time and true the rim at the same time. Thing got hot on hills and wasn't geared well for hilly single track mt. biking. Weighting issues also stunk, didn't take hitting rocks well. I'm not a commuter. I rode that setup for a few months. Finally decided to try out the BBS-02, since I did really enjoy ebiking. Haven't been happier with it, that includes some issues with the lcd regarding the speed sensor. I don't think people have had as many issues as you might think. Only consistent issue is the 750w controller can't handle 25amps, but I've only read about one guy with a bad controller. I push my motor pretty hard, 1500 vertical ft in about 4 miles going around 20mph most of the way. It's barely warm afterwards. I could be the exception. My personal reason for not getting a GNG style or an AFT kit is they look horrible and too much hardware. If I need that much crap going on to hook a motor up to it, it isn't worth it to me. If you need/want the extra power - cut out the pedal option and drive the wheel direct from the motor. The BBS looks like and is a commercial product. A big difference from these custom kits. It's a great product for the casual ebiker and someone that wants something simple and easy to install and maintain. Took a bike newb like me an hour to install. I imagine the GNG or AFT would take a bit longer. Just looks so much more complicated. Perfect for commuters and people like me. The drive is almost silent and nobody on my trails even knows that I'm getting any help. If my Grandma wanted an ebike i wouldn't suggest anything else. I think the BBS is a good purchase for someone's first bike. Less complicated, easy install, no maintenance.

Are Maxamps really any better with comparable c ratings? Do you own an iphone? Some people justify their expenses that same way. We should all be happy with how our money is spent. That's one thing I've learned from Apple types. They'll defend it till the end. I'm jealous of that. Its a phone damn it. I don't care how much better it is than my cheap Android. Like the Mercedes Benz owner who finds out in Europe those are Taxi cars and he should of just bought a Hyundai. Would have gotten a lot more for his money. He's too proud to admit he bought it to make himself look cool. Could have bought three for the price of that one Mercedes.

Just giving you crap though. I like my setup, but I see why others like theirs. We are both right.

I would buy the BBS02 750W kit again, from lectriccycles.com (http://lectriccycles.com/products/750-watt-mid-drive-conversion-kit) for the following reasons:

* USA Vendor/Excellent customer service, & very knowledgeable about this kit, cost includes shipping.
* Kit is extremely easy to install
* Motor is unbelievably quiet.
* Kit is sleek and stealthy. Most people don't know it's an electric bike, unless I tell them or pass them up a steep hill without pedaling.
* Lots of Torque for the hills and with proper gearing, high-speed on the flats/downhills.
* Pairs nicely with 12S LiCo/Lipo, or a vast array or plug & play batteries (including lectriccycles battery selection)
* Good Weight distribution on bicycle, especially when the battery is in the main triangle. - Bike Handles like it has no motor, and on FS bikes, is "suspended"
* Controller is integrated into the drive (stealthy, although at the expense of having heat issues), and kit includes a useful LCD display.
* Perfect solution for a commute with some challenging hills.

With all that said, I want more power than this kit can offer, so I have been following the Lightningrod's thread.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=57720
Build quality is excellent, but you lose the ease of install, and stealthy nature of the Bafang kit.

You can't directly compare the BBS02 VS the GNG and AFT kits... it's like compareing apples and oranges.

The BBS02 is a toy compared to the power and torque of the GNG and AFT kits. Of course its smaller and more neat as it's not doing much !

The GNG and AFT is like a Porsche and Lamborgini in terms of power and you are trying to compare the look and feel and price of that to a family sedan ?

One is a docile machine that gets you from A to B and the other is powerful and extravagant, you can't compare the two.

Wormsman what was the problems with the BBS02 and GNG ? so it's interesting to see you are going to upgrade to the AFT now

Hey all, regarding the AFT comparison. I just feel, personally, after many episodes of starting with something cheap, or minimal, that in every single scenario, ive sooner or later reached the limit of said machine, and upgraded to the item that i couldnt justify buying initially. And in the long run, it would have been cheaper to just buy a good one in the first place.

Ive had around 15 different dirtbikes and roadbikes. Im on my sixth pushbike in 3years. I have gone through 12 guitars. Half a dozen cars. Thousands of dollars in RC cars, planes, helicopters. Etc etc. And yes, i have a pile if old turnigy packs and burned out hobbywing motors and esc's, and yes maxamps are more punchy, faster, never get hot, and have a lifetime warranty.

Dirkdiggler, i drive a toyota hatchback. I buy stuff that does what it's supposed to do and does it well, and reliably. So yes, i own an iphone lol.

All Im trying to get across is, while the bbs might be a great little setup- like teslanv mentions above- he's already looking for a more powerful system. So if you add up the cost of a bbs and then a lightningrods modded gng, would it not have been wiser just to get the AFT to begin with?
I got the AFT because it is future proof. I've learned the expensive way that saving money in the short term doesnt pay off. I wont ever need to upgrade my bike. Its got more power than i need or use 99% of the time. Its solid and reliable and rides like a dream. I expect this bike to last me the next ten years. How many of you feel the same way about your bikes?
That's why i recommended AFT.
If you want to save some cash, go for the bbs. Just dont be surprised if you're back on here in 6months asking people if the new bbs04 is worth upgrading to because you're bored with or sick of the old one.
Maybe it's just me projecting years of working in an RC hobby shop, but every day people come in with their ebay specials and want help sorting out their flaws and failures because they wanted to save a few bucks. My own cars cost twice as much, but they drive ten times better and never break down for no reason. Most people persevere with their cheapies for a month or two then give up/crack it, and buy a good one.

Maybe the OP will be completely satisfied with the bbs. I dont really care much. But he asked for advice and thats what i gave, based on my experiences both with ebikes and life. Ignore me and buy whatever you want. Im done trying to help people for today. Good luck to you all.

Out of me, to pollute this thread with mine is better than yours.....
I've never said that some is better than the other, universally, Only expressed My circumstanced opinion and shared My direct experiences with what I have or had on my hands, for the topic.
Though, I've felt the need to note that advertizing (or supporting) a system like the AFT (that doesn't need that, indeed) comparing it with the worst hub experience in the world (4 hubomotors 2 controllers 2 throttles in 200 km) was not correct in a public forum that is primarily supposed to be of help for the actual and future visitors/members with useful and real experiences, topic related.

BBS2 is (except for the long term reliability where we can't have so much data, since I think there isn't one older than 2 years) the best easy-quality-price ride-ready system among the mentioned ones, that's what I have to say about. end of the story. I have a friends with 10.000km made in less than one year (mostly used in winter-raining-time) and no one problem has occurred.
In terms of power, the 750w I own is way more than most normal bikers would ask for. there isn't a slope or a dirt road it cannot get, while in the proper bike, And with the Pushbutton it works efficiently with PAS without need for throttle, even for me that I'm a throttle addicted, but it's always there for any need...1200w is a typical peak for it (48v*25A)...

dypsomaniart said:

Hey jules, my aft 1680w with every possible upgrade and option was $2600(au).
It sounds as though you have bought at least 6 different systems over the years, and likely spent far more than that on upgrades and mods. How much have you spent looking for a decent setup? If the GNG is so good, why did you buy a bbs02? If the astro system was supposed to be the best, why did you then buy a GNG? (Can you tell us please, how much money you've wasted on all these options when an AFT system is still better?)
I opted to just buy something good from the start and skip all the crap inbetween.

Click to expand...

I've only bought the Astro setup and the BBS2 (my wife's bike, 700c front, 12s lipo, push button instead of one e-brakes as only mod), I've mounted/tried some Cyclone and 2 GNG on customer's/friend's bikes.
I also own some small geared hubmotors to test with them to choose the best fit for a commuter sport custom frame.
I've spent no one penny more than what I needed for the Astro Bike. and with the same assumption as your, to not waste time/money with cheap, unstable and too complicate or experimental setups.
My Recumpence Astro Drive is an artwork and maybe even with some juice to fire it up is less or equal to your 2400AUD AFT-extreme-emax-cyclone , This system is also on sale into series cycles from an official shop (FFR-OutriderUSA) that has been one of the critical things that convinced me to get it almost 3 years ago.
For Many kind of uses - purposes, I think it is unbeatable right now, in terms of performance-quality-price.
Note that with a 3210, more comparable to your 1600w cyclone, the price of an Astro kit will drop easily enough to include An huge KOKAM or KONION or whatever MAXAMPS pack you like....

If A super refined product is required from a customer looking for a top end Mid-drive E-MTB, without any hassle, mods and with full support, than I'd suggest him to look at a Bosch equipped MTB. for 2400AUD+the battery cost+ any other small bit you need to get a bike comparable to a Good OEM Bosch E-MTB.
It may be competitive also importing it if not yet available there....

As part of a small frame company that looks also to e-bikes, I've to know what is available and how it works.

jk1 said:

You can't directly compare the BBS02 VS the GNG and AFT kits... it's like compareing apples and oranges.

The BBS02 is a toy compared to the power and torque of the GNG and AFT kits. Of course its smaller and more neat as it's not doing much !

The GNG and AFT is like a Porsche and Lamborgini in terms of power and you are trying to compare the look and feel and price of that to a family sedan ?

One is a docile machine that gets you from A to B and the other is powerful and extravagant, you can't compare the two.

Wormsman what was the problems with the BBS02 and GNG ? so it's interesting to see you are going to upgrade to the AFT now

Click to expand...

The problem with the GNG well were do I start there are many issues as outlined in the 130 + + pages of the GNG thread.The weight , phase wires ,crappy chains , bearings ,free wheel, cheap thin sheet metal, the bottom bracket, really everything but the motor and the motor is fantastic but really it is just needing alot of time engineering and money money money .There are some super engineered mid drive custom setups out there but alot of time has gone into these customs. Some of the problems with the bbs include throddle delay, controllers blowing up ,gearing failing ,grease filled gearboxes, I have fried one controller and while its a good commercial style kit for the masses I don't feel this motor set up would hold up To a decent down hill run without something bending or breaking I've had one apart and you get what you pay for, low power applications or medium/light biking , there a good set up when gearing is changed or controller limited to pas level 7-8 as the temp spikes when climbing decent hills and if you don't keep an eye on it its all over I have had some good rides with my bbs but ive just outgrown the setup and pushed the bbs upto what its capable of .The front chain ring im using is a 34t and this makes it a lot better at climbing .from what ive seen the aft set up looks to be the best engineered and designed light weight kit and well tested to10ks.My next machine will be the extreme aft kit custom setup on my giant glory and I look foward to buliding it, im currently testing the new gng on my glory to see how it copes with that monster lump of weight yet another test/step to get the ultimate setup.

I'm highly interested in although somewhat suspicious of the claim that has if not out right made at least insinuated that the AFT is capable of 10-years no maintenance service life. Realizing of course that I do not have personal direct experience with the AFT only cyclone direct experience and copying some of the AFT improvements myself.

Did they really do that much improvement? Even running a high quality oil filled gear box with ceramic bearing upgrade I'd still expect to have to change out for a fresh set of planet gears and possibly outer ring (inner sun on motor shaft is super hardened steel so probably not much wear there) at least once in that time period just as a mater of routine maintenance and maybe change out the motors hall circuit board at least once due to long-term heat damage. That's if you don't even count doing at least one rebuild on the white industries motor freewheel and multiple drive chain replacements over the course of a 10-year period since they could be considered not part of the actual drive but rather a means of connecting the drive to the rest of the bike.

As good as the AFT may be I think there would still be some maintenance such as I mention that would need to be done over that kind of time frame especially if being run at the higher power levels its capable of and not just running at common lower street legal limited power output levels (200, 250, 500, or 750 watts depending on legal jurisdiction).

If it doesn't even need that kind of maintenance services then that would truly be an incredibly durable drive. I just have a hard time believing it could really be that good. I just figured that the AFT was basically a highly improved and polished off version of the cyclone drive kind of like what LR is working up based on the GNG. I hope that's a fair comparison to make "LR drive will be to GNG drive what AFT drive is to Cyclone drive."

The ideal ebike for me is a light weight as possible down hill bike, with 8 inch or more of suspension travel with good brakes taking that extra weight ive added to it and cope with it making it a capable bike .For me a BBS and a GNG i couldn't do that and I needed more and more. I still have both GNG an BBS mounted to bikes and there good but its far from a bike that can handle what i like to ride on ,and atleast I wont need to redesign and make some new brackets to tension belts/chains I've ended up spending alot on both gng an bbs just looking for a setup that I can buy install and enjoy ,and not redesign . I've endend up with two bikes and they have different purposes i want one bike that can do what both bikes can do and do it better .Doing this has been a learning curve and if I had to do it again I would be spending a bit more on a better designed kit that can handle what I can throw at it.It really depends were u ride the terrain etc as to what kit will suit your needs.

turbo1889 said:

I'm highly interested in although somewhat suspicious of the claim that has if not out right made at least insinuated that the AFT is capable of 10-years no maintenance service life. Realizing of course that I do not have personal direct experience with the AFT only cyclone direct experience and copying some of the AFT improvements myself.

Did they really do that much improvement? Even running a high quality oil filled gear box with ceramic bearing upgrade I'd still expect to have to change out for a fresh set of planet gears and possibly outer ring (inner sun on motor shaft is super hardened steel so probably not much wear there) at least once in that time period just as a mater of routine maintenance and maybe change out the motors hall circuit board at least once due to long-term heat damage. That's if you don't even count doing at least one rebuild on the white industries motor freewheel and multiple drive chain replacements over the course of a 10-year period since they could be considered not part of the actual drive but rather a means of connecting the drive to the rest of the bike.

As good as the AFT may be I think there would still be some maintenance such as I mention that would need to be done over that kind of time frame especially if being run at the higher power levels its capable of and not just running at common lower street legal limited power output levels (200, 250, 500, or 750 watts depending on legal jurisdiction).

If it doesn't even need that kind of maintenance services then that would truly be an incredibly durable drive. I just have a hard time believing it could really be that good. I just figured that the AFT was basically a highly improved and polished off version of the cyclone drive kind of like what LR is working up based on the GNG. I hope that's a fair comparison to make "LR drive will be to GNG drive what AFT drive is to Cyclone drive."

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of course there will be general maintenance and gradual wear. All im saying is i wont be buying a new system. If you read my post properly you will see that i said i will never have to upgrade, not that i'll never have to do any maintenance! This one should be as long lasting as a mechanical system can possibly be. How stupid are you people?! Honestly. Did you need me to list that over ten years expect to change my tires and handgrips too?
Maybe they will develop a light weight hydraulic drive that will eliminate surface to surface drag, which is the cause of wear, but at this stage, If you want maintenance free, keep riding the short Bus.

wormsman said:

The ideal ebike for me is a light weight as possible down hill bike, with 8 inch or more of suspension travel with good brakes taking that extra weight ive added to it and cope with it making it a capable bike .For me a BBS and a GNG i couldn't do that and I needed more and more. I still have both GNG an BBS mounted to bikes and there good but its far from a bike that can handle what i like to ride on ,and atleast I wont need to redesign and make some new brackets to tension belts/chains I've ended up spending alot on both gng an bbs just looking for a setup that I can buy install and enjoy ,and not redesign . I've endend up with two bikes and they have different purposes i want one bike that can do what both bikes can do and do it better .Doing this has been a learning curve and if I had to do it again I would be spending a bit more on a better designed kit that can handle what I can throw at it.It really depends were u ride the terrain etc as to what kit will suit your needs.

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Couldn't understand If you want:

- a Downhill e-bike as possible close to the race ready bike to enjoy the tracks as usual but having a little help to go uphill to repeat the pleasure
or
- a Downhill based motorbike style e-bike, that could never be considered or used as a true Downhill bike again (without dismount the electrics obviously) to enjoy the fun of a totally new hi powered vehicle?

Supposing the second is the case, It seems you want a lot from a bike train....maybe a more motorcycle style motor? a separated drive with a midmount humotor or a big RC motor?

Jules, clearly your high mounted astro motor (on a hardtail frame from what i have seen of your posts) has warped your understanding of what a light motor is like, mounted at crank level.
My glory handles better now with the motor than it did before. Because of the low cg, its just as easy to throw around and manouver through tight stuff. If anything, the extra 4.5kg on the bottom helps it flow through rocky sections and tree roots without getting deflected and bouncing off line. It doesnt adversely effect handling at all.
The AFT kit is tough enough to take any downhill track, and i'd be very surprised if it couldnt do any of them faster than gravity alone with a normal DH bike.
I can tell you from my personal experience that i can go faster downhill, faster on flat, and faster uphill, than any bike ive had before, and according to strava, than any other bike, period. Before i started making my strava rides private, i had KOM'd every track.

Go buy one and give it a try, then you'll understand.
A low cg setup (compared to the astro) having exponentially less pendulum effect on the bike is just simple physics.
Anyone who still doesnt understand the advantages of the AFT kit, try googling what happens when you run out of gearbox oil in a motorcycle or car. Dry gears are a fatal design flaw. See if you can find any motor vehicle that doesnt run gearbox oil.
A seperate, programmable controller and motor heatsink means cool running and max efficiency, and no long term heat damage to motor sensors and magnets. And no dumb throttle lag.
Ceramic bearings last far longer than chrome steel and are more efficient.
A fully rigid alloy mounting plate means a solid bashplate, and no torque flex to wear chains and gears.
The best cranks and freewheels available at the moment.

I'm tired of trying to convince you. Just go do some real research (not just take what you like from what people think on forums).
Look at some videos of EGO kits, and AFT kits offroad.
Your comment was highly inaccurate.

jules: The AFT system looks like the best solution to my next project I don't need to explain what I'm trying to achieve if you can't understand what I've written take from it what you will you seem confused. :? The GNG and BBS didnt do what I want and im looking for a kit that takes the best traits from both of these motors from what ive seen I cant wait to start my next project