High power RC motor and drive unit production

[recumpence]

Hey Guys,

I am starting this thread for discussion regarding David's 60 series RC motor (currently under development) and my multi stage, modular reduction unit.

For those who are not familiar with this project, we are developing (adapting) RC technology to the E-bike realm by designing an entirely new outrunner motor (David's project) and a custom modular reduction unit for it (my project) to adapt the motor to the bike.

I am roughly 2 weeks out from having a prototype modular drive to show. I think David is a bit longer than that to show the motor.

Anyway, for those who have questions regarding the motor and/or my drive unit, ask away!

Matt

[Ypedal]

I'd like to see you working on a geared hub motor with one of these RC motors built in ! With all the tools and brains you have available i bet you could make a BMC eater..

[voicecoils]

Sounds great Have you decided on a solution to getting power to the rear wheel?

You could have a very popular ebike kit if all goes to plan

With my free X5 hubmotor, I'll be looking to jump on the RC bandwagon once a bit more refinement has been achieved. (which probably also means I'll be spending even more money!) Deecanio might even beat me too it! A viable, powerful electric drive for full suspension MTBs has great potential, but the current MTB community won't be interested unless it has impressive power. But, if they didn't have to pedal a 20kg DH bike up a big hill to go downhilling down the other side I bet there'd be interest for sure

Will the ebox production continue?

[swbluto]

What's supposed to be functionally different with the new outrunner motor being designed and the existing RC motors? Better heat dissipation, greater efficiency, greater bearing-reliability with directional stress on the shaft, etc.? I've never worked with nor have ever seen an outrunner motor(besides online at hobbycity.com) to know its issues with e-bike/e-scooter/e-what-have-you adaptation, so an abecedarian treatment might be appropriate.

[recumpence]

A hub motor is not in the cards right now.

The E-box may or may not happen. My modular design is far superior and can be configured in single stage or dual stage. So, it may be best to just build the modular system and sell it as single stage (less costly and less complicated) or dual stage (more costly with farther reduction available).

That will become apparent very soon.

I agree low weight is important for typical bike guys. That is the biggest part of this. Also, high power is important. A reliable 5kw or higher is not hard to achieve with this technology. Coupled with lithium polymer batteries, you could get away with a total drive system weight of 15 to 17 pounds with battery! That is right where I am with my recumbent.

Also, Castle Creations is just about ready to begin shipping their monster 90 volt, 200 amp ESC!

It is all coming together from a timing standpoint.

Anyway, I may fund a one-off 60 series motor for my own use and testing. That on top of a SHV200 Castle ESC and a new 1.5kwh lipo pack should put me in E-ride heaven!

The holy grail is close, very close.

The only down side is the fact that technology like this does not come cheap. David's motor will probably come in at roughly $400. My dual stage drive for that much power will be about $300 (roughly) and the SHV 200 required to run it at it's max capacity will cost $750. However, a single stage reduction will be between $150 and $200 (depending on layout), a more basic motor would be $200 to $300, and a HV110 is $250. So, you can get away with spending less for RC stuff. But, we want to see just how far we can take this ultra light weight, extremely powerful setup.

Matt

[swbluto]

So you're aiming for the stars and most of us hope you eventually land on the moon(Or offer an alternative that's lunar-nomical as opposed to astro-nomical in terms of price), at least.

[recumpence]

What's supposed to be functionally different with the new outrunner motor being designed and the existing RC motors? Better heat dissipation, greater efficiency, greater bearing-reliability with directional stress on the shaft, etc.? I've never worked with nor have ever seen an outrunner motor(besides online at hobbycity.com) to know its issues with e-bike/e-scooter/e-what-have-you adaptation, so an abecedarian treatment might be appropriate.

A few things;

#1 HUGE shaft. The internal shaft diameter is huge on this motor (I believe 15mm). The output portion of the shaft will probably be 12mm.

#2 Far better efficiency. RC planes and helis ahve alot of airflow available. So, effiency is not a big deal. But, we want the best efficiency possible. This new motor will have thin laminations and be taylor made for our application. That (among other factors) will give better efficiency.

#3 Super beefy bearings to handle the high shaft side loading a belt drive will have.

#4 Ability to handle FAR higher voltage than typical RC motors.

My Plettenberg maxes out at 50 volts. These new motors will handle 100 volts mor more!

Also, the can (bell) will be tapered to tolerate the shock loads imparted on it in bike use.

Matt

[recumpence]

So you're aiming for the stars and most of us hope you eventually land on the moon(Or offer an alternative that's lunar-nomical as opposed to astro-nomical in terms of price), at least.

Like I mentioned, a drive system can be built and sold for as little as $150 and you can get motors that are relatively innexpensive as well. So, that is not a big deal. We just want to make sure this system will handle alot of power. Going smaller is always easy.

You can go with basic components and get in for about $700 for a basic motor, simple drive, and more basic ESC. $1000 for those components will get you some nice stuff. $1500 will take you to the stars!

Matt

[swbluto]

Hmmmm... 100V*200 amps = 20KW > 25 HP. Yeah, that's sounds like the holy grail. I don't have a hard time imagining this technology would flourish among the "elite" sector of e-biking/motor-cycling if it materializes.

[voicecoils]

You can go with basic components and get in for about $700 for a basic motor, simple drive, and more basic ESC. $1000 for those components will get you some nice stuff. $1500 will take you to the stars!

For perspective, $1.5k is not outragous when serious MTB'ers spend $4k+ on downhill rigs and dirt bikes easily get to $10k+ before upgrades.

I say go for crazy performance first and let the tech trickle down to more economical lower power options. That was the Telsa Roadster plan too.

higher voltage RC motors and controllers is key, and it's great to see that it's all coming together at the right time. you guys have the tools and build experience. It's an exciting time

I'm very curious about this drive. Have you got a back of napkin sketch?

[recumpence]

You can go with basic components and get in for about $700 for a basic motor, simple drive, and more basic ESC. $1000 for those components will get you some nice stuff. $1500 will take you to the stars!

Have you got a back of napkin sketch?

Hmm, would toilet paper work?

Matt

[voicecoils]

Have you got a back of napkin sketch?

Hmm, would toilet paper work?

I doubt your idea is quite that shitty.

[recumpence]

Have you got a back of napkin sketch?

Hmm, would toilet paper work?

I doubt your idea is quite that shitty.

Oh, Man, I left myself WIDE open for that one!

Matt

[CNCAddict]

Yeah, this is all coming together pretty nicely. The motor I'm building will be "capable" of very high peak power levels somewhere north of 15Kw if it is geared correctly and run at high voltages. The problem is that the current controllers will not limit power when temps get out of hand. This is something I really worry about if Joe the plumber buys one of these. Riding hard in the mountains pulling 9Kw continuous would heat things up a lot...and ruin the motor. We need some sort of circuit to measure controller/motor temps and start beeping like mad and limit the throttle when temps get out of hand. This should be an easy project for anyone with a bit of programming skills

[kfong]

Hey this sounds interesting, I can lend a hand on the electronics/programming and any part of the development.

Kin
http://www.embeddedtronics.com/