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Looks like lots of new toys coming to Solar bbq

Yeah I was on this site the other day. It'd be nice to get some prices up soon as the parts scene in Aus is very limited and I'm about to be putting together a bike in the near future.
 
what kind of bike are you looking at building? hub? chain?
 
Ben said:
...the parts scene in Aus is very limited
Click to expand...

I never quite understood why that's so, given the close proximity to where the stuf gets manufactured. I presume there must be trade barriers in place to keep from getting swamped with cheap imports.
So any idea if he ships to NA? I'd like to see what a P2B can do.
BTW Ben, nice work with the avatar. Which gif animator did you use?
 
BiGH said:
what kind of bike are you looking at building? hub? chain?
Click to expand...

Gonna try and build a chain bike, like a Currie. I've already discovered a couple of problems though (attaching a freewheel to the left side of an aluminium hub). I'm thinking of using the 250W geared motor from either Brett or Oatley as they seem quite good and I don't want to spend big bucks.

Anyway, this link was in another thread;

http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/newproducts.htm

Which takes you to this;

http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/cheapdiybike.htm
________________________________________________

Edit: For the avatar I used a combination of Paint and Jasc Animation Shop. Damn thing took ages to do.
 
#5 on the Hubmotor Vs Gears Advantages/Disadvantages list from that site should get one unnamed member's blood boiling. :)

http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/cheapdiybike.htm
5. geared motor systems are a bit less efficient than hub motors generally
Click to expand...

Advantages/Disadvantages over hub motors:

1. hub motors are very quiet some pretty much completely silent. Geared motors via chain do make quite a bit of noise.
2. having to be completely reliant on changing gears for the motor to drive correctly, is quite a bit of work when riding. It doesn't always go to plan, sometimes your not in the right gear etc, also I found that you have to come off the throttle a bit for nice smooth gear changes, so some learned skill involved.
But the biggest difference is this: with a hub motor there is no gear changes, so you dont really have to change gear all that much for pedalling, you tend to rely on the motor alot. But this allows you to have very nice throttle control, I find that I am constantly adjusting throttle so that my pedalling is not forced, its quite easy to be able to ride along adjusting throttle so that pedalling effort is very light or as much as you want to exert. With a geared motor via chain that is more difficult as you are having to go through all the gears to keep motor on right gear setting for your speed, its just more things happening at one time your brain has to deal with, for me personally hub motors are much easier.
3.maintainence: when driving a motor via the gear system there is alot of wear and tear on the chain/gears/freewheels. The amount of force on the chain and cluster is very large, if you can imagine you can yourself supply 200watts of power without too much effort, then apply this by about 3 times ( the max. power output of the geared motors ), and theres alot of banging and crunching going on especially during gear changes with motor power on. So there are problems arise in the commercial systems ( cyclone,elation,epac) where parts need replacing prematurely due to the forces at work ( some problems that I've heard of are chain breakages, freewheels wearing out early and more rapid sprocket wear ).
4. advantage of geared motor system is that on steep hills you can get really high torque using a low voltage system, so you can climb up very steep inclines without pedal assist, but will be going very slow of course. You can do the same with a hub motor if using lithium batteries, you can get the same result but you need to use a higher voltage system ( more power ) to get the same result. I recently did a test comparing a cyclone system 24v, to my 408 motor ( 48v ) on steep hills that were pretty much identical but I was using about twice the power on the 408 as compared to the cyclone. So for very slow going and steep hills is where I think the geared motor systems have a big advantage.
5. geared motor systems are a bit less efficient than hub motors generally
6. doing some test rides against cyclone kit compared with 408 motor top speed of hub motor much better than chain drive.
Click to expand...
 
i REALLY like the chain cover pictured on the page (see below)
combined with a nice mountain bike (which i just happen to already have paint the entire setup black to match the bike = awesome :) (with a big motor and 72v of insanity :p) however the chain probably wouldn't handle it :(

<img src="http://mywebsite.bigpond.com/islandearth/nci/epac2small.jpg" width="600">

side note: how can i get the board to resize this pic? or do i have to do it manually?
 
side note: how can i get the board to resize this pic? or do i have to do it manually?
Click to expand...

Put the pic's URL into an IMG tag, and set the width attribute to something between 400 & 800.

Example:
Code: 
<img src="http://mywebsite.bigpond.com/islandearth/nci/epac2small.jpg" width="600">

<img src="http://mywebsite.bigpond.com/islandearth/nci/epac2small.jpg" width="600">
 
lol of course OMG i can't believe i was thinking so far within the box :(:( i was trying to do iit with BBcode.....
 
Hmm.. I don't like the EPAC one as you lose your front gears.

I find I use the front gears more than the rear, as you need the big step up from starting off to cruising - rather than running from one end of the rear cluster to the other.

I certainly use the front gears more now with the hub motor than before, when it basically sat in the middle gear for 90% of the time.
 
This part interests me;

F. getting a meter made similar to drain brain maybe another month or so till ready, price should be about half of drainbrain price.
Click to expand...

Also this is a bit off topic, but does anyone know if the 250W motor from Oatley uses a bike chain? Brett says his does, but I've read somewhere else that the Unite geared motor sprockets suit #420 chain.
 
It takes a standard bike chain and will work with a single through to a 6 or 7 speed chain after that you will have to thin down the sprocket teeth a touch. their controller works well too.
 
looks like the http://www.ebike.biz web site points elsewhere now
 
At work I get Brett's site (telstra)

At home I get a different site (optus).
 
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
I never quite understood why that's so, given the close proximity to where the stuf gets manufactured. I presume there must be trade barriers in place to keep from getting swamped with cheap imports.
So any idea if he ships to NA? I'd like to see what a P2B can do.
Click to expand...

a) More information on the "P2B" motor is definately in order 8)

b) I'm curious about the trade barriers between Australia and China (also Indonesia) :)
Maybe they just have lots of affordable stuff in Ausiland :) lucky buggers :roll:
 
recumbent said:
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
I never quite understood why that's so, given the close proximity to where the stuf gets manufactured. I presume there must be trade barriers in place to keep from getting swamped with cheap imports.
So any idea if he ships to NA? I'd like to see what a P2B can do.
Click to expand...

a) More information on the "P2B" motor is definately in order 8)

b) I'm curious about the trade barriers between Australia and China (also Indonesia) :)
Maybe they just have lots of affordable stuff in Ausiland :) lucky buggers :roll:
Click to expand...

its all part of AUSFTA - Australian Free trade agreement. if its under $1k AUD then its tax free.

you find most asian shipments these days are
a) undervalued and
b) marked as "gift"

:p
 
Hmm,
I have been dealing with Brett. Got one of those oateley type motors and freewheel. Bit of fiddling to get it all mounted/fitted. Also needed to make up my own freewheel for the motor. Running it all at 24 volts, and for my work commuter, is working well. Only marginally over our wheezy 200 watt limit, but still very impressed with the difference that the motor gives me.
Using the rear 9 gears is a real bonus. Makes better use of the limited power. Don't have the front triple anymore, but find I don't really need it, unless I wanted the power to go bush up steep hills!
There should be some photo's of my bike on Bretts site, showing my first setup on older MTB. I have since swapped it over to a newer one.
Rob
 
Yes Dear Brett seems to be related to the Chinese, excellent at copying :)

I suppose it is business but it is a bit rough that he poaches the EPAc and eLation intelectual property and then sells bits. For the record he approached me when the eLation was first release but we had a difference of opinion that bordered closed to ethics. Seems I was more on the mark than I thought.

This is one reason I have held V2 close to my chest until ready.

Might as well fight fire with fire. What ever Brett is offering I will sought out a kit to undercut his bits and pieces. Levae it with me and pass on to friends to supoport original designers not copies.

Cheers
 
Hi Miles

I have design registration on some components. But the bottom line to try and protect them is really not cost effective. The eLation was copied very quickly after release. Advice I received was dont waste your money fighting it, just win by innovation and quality.

Sadly it is always too easy for people to latch onto something and claim that they are doing nothing wrong, forgetting the amount of work some one has put into getting to the Ah Ha moment.

I know a lot of people will suggest it is sour grapes from me, fine. It is the rest that I aim my comments at.

Ideas get copied and improved on all the time. Note I do not bag EPAC for adapting their system to be similar to eLation. I suppose I do not see them as sponges on designers. They have shown their worth also.

For the Aussie amongst us, I suppose I see him as equal to a true Dole Bludger. Always after a quick hand out without trying to put in the hard yards himself.

So in answer to your question. I did not proceed beyond the Provision Patent that I received. I decided to put funds to development and saving on costs to pass on to others, like yourself. But if support is not given to designers then that makes it harder for me to put money aside for R&D. MY costs cover R&D, design, product cost, and support to evolve ideas from people like those on this forum.

Ask the SBBQs of this world how much they spend evolving/improving products.
 
Allan,
Big apologies if I have unwittingly encroached on your design. I was just looking for a low cost option to 'try out' this e-bike thing. Didn't want to spend a lot and then find out that it wasn't my thing!
I know you have mentioned a particular site in the EU that has a very similar product, but after perusing their poroduct, they do have some pretty schmick improvements! I especially liked their Deore front cranks and neat motor freewheel cover. I belive you might be supplying a similar crank freewheel?
Any idea on when the V2 will be released? Its keeping a few of us in suspenders!
BTW, I belive that what you offered the industry with V1, is a big improvement over previous chain drive systems, and even though I didn't buy my kit from you, I do thank you for the inspiration!
BTW, now that I have done a few k's on my bike, I'm hooked!
Even looking at doing something with my roadie, with a lightweight hub kit.
Rob
 
Hi Rob

Thanks for feedback. Yes it is EU mob and yes they did do some good improvements. Again my bag is not with people like them, or even you for this matter. People like yourself on these forum are in it for self desires, the challenge and for some environment.

I do not begrduge a sinlge one of you taking my effort and trying to improve on them for personal gain. But when you try and make commercial gain from it, then that is another issue.

Eg. Bit like freeware. I am happy to provide the ideas as freeware and I sell a 'prefessional' version. But if someone feels they then have the right to sell the freeware then is that right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I WANT people like yourself to take what I have done and see what it can't do, build on it and talk among yourselves. I gain by offering feedback and honing the concpets to a commercial product.
 
Thanks Allan,
Feel a little better now!
BTW, if you are able to supply replacements, like freewheel cranks, that would be good to know. (especially those new freewheel cranks) Would like to be able to get some that use the exixting BB,
Rob
 
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