Pikes Peak Race--Entering?

[Nimbuzz]

When the green flag drops the BS stops.

[AussieJester]

When the green flag drops the BS stops.

and another says..."Put your money where your mouth is"

What i do find mildly amusing about this entire thread is Opti owners only want
a frock erm "hub" motor in the race against them, yet haha the Opti is a mid drive
using gears. Is a geared frock "allowed" to compete? im sure a 50v MAC motor
would be easily quick enough to beat the opti, My buddy Matt.P has one it climbs
the same hills my rc setup does with ease, albeit a 1/4 slower LoL... Funny thread
anywayz, i would definitely take Luke up on his bet and also extremegreenmachine on Luke
blowing up within 10miles, actually thats generous i would say 5 miles, as to date
Lukes furthest effort on a non-frock bike is 3 miles before plasma and smoke and that was on
relatively flat ground ROFLMAO... good luck all...

kiM

[MadScientist]

What i do find mildly amusing about this entire thread is Opti owners only want
a frock erm "hub" motor in the race against them, yet haha the Opti is a mid drive
using gears.

It would be funnier if it were true.

I can't speak for all Optibike owners, but those of us who participate in the Google group are genuinely enthusiastic about all sorts of ebike developments. One of us (me) is even sponsoring a competing bike using Ron Rocha's chain puller drive. I'm rooting for Josh, the bike's builder/rider who has both the technical chops and MTB racing background to be a contender, but I won't be disappointed if Opti gets to the summit first. Either way, I win! Unless you have a killer hub motor, that is.

[remf]

What i do find mildly amusing about this entire thread is Opti owners only want
a frock erm "hub" motor in the race against them, yet haha the Opti is a mid drive
using gears.

It would be funnier if it were true.

I can't speak for all Optibike owners, but those of us who participate in the Google group are genuinely enthusiastic about all sorts of ebike developments. One of us (me) is even sponsoring a competing bike using Ron Rocha's chain puller drive. I'm rooting for Josh, the bike's builder/rider who has both the technical chops and MTB racing background to be a contender, but I won't be disappointed if Opti gets to the summit first. Either way, I win! Unless you have a killer hub motor, that is.

I definitely agree on this....RC, chain drive, friction drive, hub, whatever. Come one, come all. It's a fun ride. Now if the results were broken down into weight & power classifications, that would make it really interesting. My question to the naysayers, though I'm not quite sure who they are now - what should be the limit? 750W road legal? 60 pounds? No? Then what?

BTW what's a frock? I thought it was an article of clothing? 'Scuse my ignorance.

[Evoforce]

Oh boy, here we go again AJ! You explain it to remf.

[dogman]

I have heard that other hubmotor ebikes rode last year, but didn't make the top. My assumption is many had inadequate 36v 10 ah batteries. But did any bring enough battery to melt a motor? In most cases with a frock, pull 800 watts continuous with a 10 ah battery and you will drain the pack before the motor melts.

Frock motor is AJ's slang for a hubmotor. This thread has been a hoot.

[Green Machine]

Dogman,

That case about hub motors attempting and failing has been completely overblown and overstated.

The point was last year there were only 6 contestants...2 being optibikes. The 2 hub motors were bmc's (geared hub). I ride bmc's and know exactly how bad they are for this kind of climb. I roasted 5 bmcs in one year in small hill climbing situations. In fact, just roasted a bmc last night while attempting a small hill climb. Living in san francisco we have our share of hills...and bmc frankly is not living up to the grade. The only real success we have had with bmc hubs on the hills in san francisco is a 600w torque motor with a 35 amp controller dialed down to 20amps...thats the only way they will put up with climbing..and i am sure not a serious climb up pikes. The small motor with gears is simply too fragile.

Now according to the optigroups a stealth from stealth usa apparently made the climb with no problem, a stealth has a dd crytallite 5304. If that is true that is a great reference point when it comes to hubbies and the pikes.

I am thinking there are many crystallites, and other dd's that could make that climb very easily..the only question is how fast. If a dd hub is modified for this race with any kind of cooling...water or air..my guess is completing the race would be a cinch...

[Alan B]

It would be excellent to have some real data. Accurate, firsthand info. What hubmotors, how configured, battery, system weight, and what happened.

[dogman]

Yeah, I never heard it said hubmotors melted, just that they didn't get to the very top. My assumption is that some just ran down their batteries. I'm pretty sure though, that more than 1000 watts continuous would get pretty hot by 24 miles.

[Green Machine]

Well it turns out the fact that a stealth bomber climbed peaks on an off race day was just a false rumor....so no hub motor has scaled pikes as of yet...nothing documented.

[Hillhater]

Just to clarify a point,. can spare batteries be swapped out at any point along the route ?
Or do all batteries have to be carried the whole distance ?
I am sure the "peddlers" will "refuel" at various points, and i thought i read some where that spare batteries were used last time also.

[MikeFairbanks]

Just to clarify a point,. can spare batteries be swapped out at any point along the route ?
Or do all batteries have to be carried the whole distance ?
I am sure the "peddlers" will "refuel" at various points, and i thought i read some where that spare batteries were used last time also.

And therein lies the way to win: Be in pedaling shape and use the motor for supplemental power.

A motorcycle could beat all those bikes.

So what are the parameters of the whole thing?

To me, the biggest challenge is pedaling. Don't get me wrong: I love E-bikes, but it's akin to Tow-in surfing. Sure, it's fun, but the true watermen are the ones who paddle into big waves rather than getting towed in by waverunners.

That said, lycra is ugly and should be banned from the first four planets.

[Hillhater]

.... I love E-bikes, but it's akin to Tow-in surfing. Sure, it's fun, but the true watermen are the ones who paddle into big waves rather than getting towed in by waverunners..

..yes but the "long boarders" still believe they are the only true surfers.
There will always be change, ..and there will always be resistance to it !
..each to their own preference, and live in harmony !

[mabman]

That said, lycra is ugly and should be banned from the first four planets.

You are joking right?

gaggioli2.jpg (60.44 KiB) Viewed 301 times

[Green Machine]

wow i cant believe it ....it even looks unappealing on her...would be a great looking woman if she wasnt in lycra...

Starting to see what you guys mean....

[dogman]

Lycra ugly? Obviously you haven't been to the womens pro 1 division bicycle races. Pack of dang godesses. Don't wear your lycra to watch the race, you need nice baggy cargo pants.

[Evoforce]

Aaaahahahaaaahaahaaaaaaaaa! Dogman you cracked me up.

[Hillhater]

Just to clarify a point,. can spare batteries be swapped out at any point along the route ?
Or do all batteries have to be carried the whole distance ?

so does anyone know if you are allowed to swap batteries along the route ? ... fairly simple & important question i thought ?

[Green Machine]

Hillhater,

My guess this would be considered uncool...like an ethical infringement....although there is no specific rule against it.

To do it you would have to have someone along the route to carry your battery for you...although there is no rule against this if someone saw it they might complain...

The other option would be to go stealth and hide batteries along the route the night before...but obviously you would be guilty of a littering infraction or something.

This is one of those things that you would probably get away with...but if other riders saw you they would think uncool. If you were to win the race and other electrics saw you do this you can bet there would be some bitching....especially over at the optigroup which tends to get pretty grumpy about sphere antics.


Its obvious the organizers dont have a clue about electrics and therefore do not have any rules specifically for electrics...so it seems like you would have to abide by bicycle etiquette and be self contained.

I think there should obv be a rule against this tactic and i would advise you not to do it...its against the spirit of an endurance like race which the pikes peak climb is. I think people here would even complain if you won the race and used this tactic. I know i would.

[remf]

Hillhater,

My guess this would be considered uncool...like an ethical infringement....although there is no specific rule against it.

To do it you would have to have someone along the route to carry your battery for you...although there is no rule against this if someone saw it they might complain...

The other option would be to go stealth and hide batteries along the route the night before...but obviously you would be guilty of a littering infraction or something.

This is one of those things that you would probably get away with...but if other riders saw you they would think uncool. If you were to win the race and other electrics saw you do this you can bet there would be some bitching....especially over at the optigroup which tends to get pretty grumpy about sphere antics.

Its obvious the organizers dont have a clue about electrics and therefore do not have any rules specifically for electrics...so it seems like you would have to abide by bicycle etiquette and be self contained.

I think there should obv be a rule against this tactic and i would advise you not to do it...its against the spirit of an endurance like race which the pikes peak climb is. I think people here would even complain if you won the race and used this tactic. I know i would.

Aye wholeheartedly agree. Not in the spirit of the ride...that's more for the Race to the Clouds next month.

And here I was thinking you'd be right into cooking up some hot-swap tactics....by any means necessary etc.

[Hillhater]

OK, but there is no limit on how many kWhr you can pack, carry, or tow along ?.
PS: .. i have NO probability of being there,..just checking as i seem to recall some comment about people using "extra" battery packs last year.

[John in CR]

If I wanted to be unfair I'd just let one of my kids be the pilot. Battery stops won't win anything, because eg an additional 20lbs of batteries only cost about 50 watts at 30mph up the average grade of the course, so a 50wh gain to stop and swap would be a serious race mistake. You've got both the time lost plus the energy waste and heat risk of accelerating from zero again. Spend your time on aero improvements along with motor and controller cooling. Forget trying to figure out how to hotswap your pack, and figure out how to fit a smaller wheel on your motor. Then increase voltage to get back to your speed target for more efficient and cooler running at the same speed.

[liveforphysics]

Yep, that's pure gold advise John.

Low turn count motor. Tiny tire (like a small scooter tire) mounted right on the spoke flange.
Vented motor, little copper line aimed to dribble water into the motor.
I would do maybe 5kw-hr of Lipo.

[MadScientist]

My guess [swapping batteries] would be considered uncool...like an ethical infringement....although there is no specific rule against it.

To each his own. I think swapping packs is just dandy as long as you carry the spare along with you. At least one ebike last year swapped packs somewhere close to the top. I don't know about the Optibikes.

Its obvious the organizers dont have a clue about electrics and therefore do not have any rules specifically for electrics...so it seems like you would have to abide by bicycle etiquette and be self contained.

The organizers have made it clear that motor vehicles are not allowed on the course. If your bike meets Colorado's definition of a low power electric assist bicycle it is OK, if it obviously does not then you might have trouble. My guess is that fighting with overzealous ebikers is the last thing the organizers want. If we all play nice, we can all have fun.

That said, here's the Colorado Springs Police page on Scooters, Pocket Bikes, Mopeds and More. Note their suggestion to "Keep a copy of the identifying paperwork for your motorized vehicle with the vehicle. That way, if there is any question as to what classification of vehicle is you will have the supporting paperwork." Good luck sorting out your monster ebike if the police become involved.

its against the spirit of an endurance like race which the pikes peak climb is.

One more time: The Assault on the Peak is a fun ride with some friendly competition. It is not a race. In a real race there would be classes with enforced power and/or energy limits.

[Green Machine]

Mad Science Ken,

the question hill hater had was obv about "hot swapping" with batteries on the roadside so you dont have to carry as much weight. I thought that was obvious?

And regarding your insistence that this is just a ride....that is just your opinion and you have made that clear and dont have to keep pushing it. Its obvious that everyone else including optibike considers it a race...why are you the only one calling it a fun ride? Remember what craig from opti said "When the green flag drops the bs stops" and "we are not losing this race in our own backyard". Read the OP Nimbuzz issue the challenge on the very first post of this thread....you dont issue a challenge to a fun ride.

And if motor vehicles are not allowed then that means the opti is not allowed. One more time the opti is not a legal electric bicycle by federal standards. It goes over 20mph without pedal assisting.

I think its obvious that you have your own agenda...you have admitted in PM you are backing a bike to attend the event...and i am sure your not sponsoring a bike so the rider can enjoy the fresh rocky mountain air while listening to john denver on his ipod while juicing himself up the hill.

I know you were hoping to have a RACE like last year with just a couple of threatless bmc's and 2 optis to "ride" against but their is no point in continuing to snivel...you have real competition now...

You should have stayed over at the opti groups mad science ken....because now...now....

The ES dogs will be upon you.