Pikes Peak Race--Entering?

[itchynackers]

No one is willing to admit they are going? There has to be a few of you going.

[Green Machine]

I think there is a lot of confusion on whether there is going to be race and whether they will even allow electric bikes to compete. And what about high powered electrics?

The problem is for most folks that is a helluva drive. For me its over 20 hours each way or i would go....but to drive 40 hours round trip to be turned back would suck balls.

[dogman]

I was wanting to go, but heard the electrics weren't particularly welcome this year. Too busy this year at work anyway as it turned out.

[itchynackers]

Well that bites. I was looking forward to the adventures of dogman this year. Who was it that was crashed into at the starting line last year? Now that would get me fired up!

[Green Machine]

Well that bites. I was looking forward to the adventures of dogman this year. Who was it that was crashed into at the starting line last year? Now that would get me fired up!

That was Joshk riding on his RonZ astro powered bike. Joshk has recently been competing in a race across the rockies on a similar powered bike: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=37848&start=15

What really sucks is that Josh's bike was one of the only bikes that had proven it was capable of climbing up Pikes Peek (it had done it the year before) and he was crashed into by an Optibike at the starting line. Pikes Peak is in optibike's back yard, probably a 30 minute drive from company headquarters. Optibike had 7 bikes registerd in the race, and you wonder how they could they have chosen a rider so amateurish to make that big of a blunder at the start of a race....and of all the bikes to crash into she crashes into their only real competitor? I would like to get the whole story of that fiasco but haven't. I know Josh spent half the day finding a tire shop to fix his bent rim and then rode to the top anyway and got their super late as they were closing the course. But its a tragic story given how far Josh had driven to compete in that race, and how much money he had spent, only to be eliminated from the race in a freak accident in an incident that was no fault of his own. I think it would have been a nice gesture for Otpibike to compensate him somehow...i am not sure maybe they did but not from what i have heard. I heard optibike was like "tough, but that's the nature of racing. shit happens." IT really sucks given the deep pockets of optibike and the fact that Josh is a guy who is living race to race on peanuts.

From what i understand, It was that incident that kind of left a sour taste in the race organizers mouths, and part of the reason the are re-considering allowing electrics to race.

Again, i would like to get the whole story. All I get is bits and pieces. But its is a worthwhile story that needs to be published.

[Josh K.]

Hi Guys,

Well, I will do my best to find out what the real deal is.

I do believe, that the race was postponed till august, because of the fires.

I also do believe, that Optibike got permission for E bikes to enter.

Unfortunately, due to many things, including the fire, I think that we will be relocating, possibly into the
Northwest Corner of the country. Bellingham has been buying our Spincycle E trikes, and we are moving towards
our best customers.

We had a great Ride the Rockies this year, and need to focus on building bikes again.

Maybe we will be able to look at Portland international Raceway again, for another great event next year.

Peace, Josh K.

[sk8norcal]

??

[dogman]

Similar stuff going on with our fires down south. Now that it can rain, roads are difficult to keep clear, everybody not a property owner kept out. Nothing but a huge mud and ash flow area. Might be the acess to the peak is impossible this week.

[CraigT]

The Pikes Peak ride is officially on. E-bikes start at 6am. (yikes!)

Hopefully, with the shorter course, more folks will come out to ride. I remember after the event last year that lots of people here were excited to come and ride this year....and here we are- the time has come.

In terms of rules, we never came up with anything solid to propose- just some good ideas for future events that it would be great if, as a community, they could be decided on so the long overdue sport of E-bike racing can really take off.

Optibike will have both "street legal" and "off road" bikes entered, just like last year- including a couple of our customers who have decided to do the ride! Exciting times.

Hope to see some of you tomorrow-

Craig Taber
Optibike

[Green Machine]

This is the most confusing e-bike race announcement i have ever seen. Only the night before did someone say for sure the race is taking place. Pikes is a 20+ hour drive for most folks.

Maybe next year more ES people will take the gamble and show up.

Hats off to FFR trikes for knowing their was going to be an e-bike race, or taking the gamble to show up. (which one?)

FFR trikes dominated this race: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=41693

[neptronix]

I couldn't believe it either when Pat started ignoring my phone calls and email after our first discussion.
I was nothing but nice and friendly to him. Such a flaky dude should not be in charge of something like this at all. You either want ebikes going up the hill or you don't, FFS.

I've thought about it a little, and next year if someone else is organizing it, i will go. Otherwise, i live on the other side of the rockies now ( Salt Lake City, UT ) and will continue along the idea of organizing something on the other side of the rockies

Anyone interested in coming out to Salt Lake City for a climb next year? To you folks on the west coast, it would cut 600 miles off your drive.

This is the most confusing e-bike race announcement i have ever seen. Only the night before did someone say for sure the race is taking place. Pikes is a 20+ hour drive for most folks.

Maybe next year more ES people will take the gamble and show up.

Hats off to FFR trikes for knowing their was going to be an e-bike race, or taking the gamble to show up. (which one?)

FFR trikes dominated this race: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=41693

[neptronix]

http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Pikes-Peak-Fun-Ride-Results---Last-Chance-Jersey-Sale.html?soid=1105780001826&aid=TtiBOVXUXnk

There were some issues with the Fun Ride results. Please visit the website and check if your time was correct. If there is an issue please email us your correct time, bib number, etc. and we will get it fixed. Thanks

UH.. wow

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/42749732/2012%20Fun%20Ride%20Results.pdf

Names missing, not ordered by time, times missing... GREAT JOB PAT!!

[itchynackers]

Ya, when I (and FFR, and a few optis) got to the top, they weren't set up for timing yet. I rode around a bit after the finish, so I think my time was actually a bit faster than what FFR said. Maybe 30 seconds quicker. I had just looked at my CA data after I stopped putzing around up top.

[veloman]

You guys should talk to Tin Mountain up in New Hampshire about adding an ebike class on their Mt Washington Hillclimb. 12% average gradient for 7.6 miles, the last pitch is 22%. I biked it in 2001, what an awesome ride.

[dogman]

Sounds like if you want your time, you bring your own stopwatch. No biggie really.

Cool that ebikes were allowed. But clearly we aren't really invited.

I still think that the level that we have built our bikes to now, pikes peak may be not steep enough anymore. We need a race from Lake Valley to Silverton, or to the pass and back to Lake Valley. Where they take the 4x4 tours to. That road is serious.

[jkbrigman]

Sounds like if you want your time, you bring your own stopwatch. No biggie really.

Cool that ebikes were allowed. But clearly we aren't really invited.

I still think that the level that we have built our bikes to now, pikes peak may be not steep enough anymore. We need a race from Lake Valley to Silverton, or to the pass and back to Lake Valley. Where they take the 4x4 tours to. That road is serious.

dogman, I dream of ebike distance rallies, with the goal of improving the technology, energy management and riding strategy.

Alan B and I have talked about the MegaMonster. It's (comparatively) well organized and they are ebike friendly. I'm sure you're well familiar with that ride and the specs they set for ebikes - I just wanted to make sure the MM was mentioned since we're now brainstorming outside the Pike's Peak envelope.

I've not ridden competitively (yet ) but I have no patience for the wishy washy. The gassers don't want us and the lycras don't want us. Who cares. No one's saying we need them, we can break out on our own.

We could start by forming an association, a sanctioning body that would define and set classes, control events, measure and announce results. Guys (and gals), we're all working at ground zero of what's going to become a transportation explosion. ebikes are catching fire in Europe now - only a matter of time before it happens in the US. If we sit around on our hands, our European brothers and sisters will go ahead and form a sanctioning body without us. Nothing wrong with that, but I'd hate to be caught whining about lycras and gassers if our friends across the pond are quietly making it happen.

For myself, I'd like to see the day when one can routinely build an ebike that'll do 200 miles in 10 hours or less at 20-30mph average. I think a sanctioning body and rallies could get us to that point: a 200 mile ebike ride where everyone finishes in 8 hours or less and with no "support" like in regular bike rides: rest stops, food stops, sag wagons or vans from bicycle shops regularly running the route to help people who have fallen over, broken a bike or have a flat they can't repair...

Imagine if the "sag wagon" for a 200 mile ebike rally was itself an electric vehicle. Or better yet, a beefed-up, heavy duty long-range ebike with tools, food, etc bringing up the rear!

[veloman]

The problem with ebike racing is that we can't agree on limitations. Let's throw a crankset on an electric motorcycle and call it an ebike. We can't even clearly define an ebike.

Also, the other problem is that current sports are attractive because they are the pinnacles of something - whether it be motor performance, human power, and so on. An ebike is neither. You can argue that ebike motor and battery tech can be the best at some performance standard which has qualifiers, but until it beats other motorized performance, it's really not much in the eyes of the public. It's an amazing fun transportation tool, but it doesn't hit on either of what is required for real interest for sport.

Does Luke pedal his ebike in races? I think not. It's really just small motorcycle racing.

Look at cart racing. Probably the best handling/corner ability of *anything* in this world. But how popular is it? Enough for those who are interested, and that's cool.

I just don't think you'll ever see an electric Tour de France.....

[TylerDurden]

The problem with ebike racing is that we can't agree on limitations. Let's throw a crankset on an electric motorcycle and call it an ebike. We can't even clearly define an ebike.

Does Luke pedal his ebike in races? I think not. It's really just small motorcycle racing.

But he can, and that is just one aspect to the distinction of ebike v. emoto. As noted, anyone can slap pedals on a moto and call it a bicycle.

IMO, every race touting the term "bicycle" (i.e. "motorized bicycle") should include a pedal-only segment. It becomes much more challenging to balance power, weight, capacity and gearing.

Picture a race between Luke's bikes, PaulD's, Itchyknackers' and Farfle's bikes, with a pedal-only segment... very different races, depending on how much of the race is pedal-only.

That could be quite entertaining, if the pedal-only segments were interspersed.

[itchynackers]

Yes! If it were a 25 mile race, I may win that, as I often do "just pedal" for excercise.

[mrbill]

IMO, every race touting the term "bicycle" (i.e. "motorized bicycle") should include a pedal-only segment. It becomes much more challenging to balance power, weight, capacity and gearing.

Picture a race between Luke's bikes, PaulD's, Itchyknackers' and Farfle's bikes, with a pedal-only segment... very different races, depending on how much of the race is pedal-only.

That could be quite entertaining, if the pedal-only segments were interspersed.

I like this idea, too. But how would you enforce a segment of a race as "pedal only"?

In the Low-Key MegaMonster and Hill Climbs we encourage but do not require pedaling by limiting stored energy or maximum continuous power.

http://megamonster.lowkeyhillclimbs.com/2012/
http://lowkeyhillclimbs.com/2012/

[itchynackers]

Since we home e-bikers are all honest, it may have to be "on your honor". After all, I don't think any of us take it too seriously (yet).

[zombiess]

You guys worry and bicker over some of the dumbest and silliest stuff. The whole point is to have fun. Start tossing in rules which end up changing frequently and getting overly detailed on rules and you end up with people who just bitch at each other that something they are doing isn't fair. I've been to enough drag racing events to see this first hand.
If you followed of the victorville races my bicycle ended up finishing first but was not the fastest by a long shot.
We are a minority community and will be so for quite some time here in the USA. Enjoy and have fun.

[Warren]

Bill,

Have you ever done comparisons of your bikes with and without the streamlining? I am wondering if, on the mountainous rides you do, the added weight offsets the aero advantage.

Warren

[TylerDurden]

I like this idea, too. But how would you enforce a segment of a race as "pedal only"?

Something simple, like a blinking LED that indicates any power drawn by the motor. That might look cool during night racing.

[mrbill]

Have you ever done comparisons of your bikes with and without the streamlining? I am wondering if, on the mountainous rides you do, the added weight offsets the aero advantage.

I haven't tested this since I started e-biking. I rode the bike a few times without the fairing many years ago and it sure felt like I was going faster. But when I actually compared times, I was slower. I suspect I felt faster because I could feel more wind hitting my body and face, giving me the feel of speed.

The fairing on one bike adds about 5 or 6 lbs, and on the other adds about 12 lbs. This is only about two to five percent of the total weight. Not really significant unless I spend most of my time moving less than 10mph as I would if I were climbing up and down steep mountains on rough dirt roads as I was a few days ago. Where the streamlining helps is when moving at higher speed.

At the 2011 MegaMonster I rode the bike with the heavier fairing over a 100-mile course with about 5200 feet of climbing and average speed of over 27mph using 13.1 wh/mi.

http://mrbill.homeip.net/bikeBlog.php?2 ... 2011.02.12

At the 2012 MegaMonster a friend of mine rode my bike with the lighter (but less-effective) fairing over the same course at an average speed of 25.4 mph using 13.6 wh/mi.

http://mrbill.homeip.net/bikeBlog.php?2 ... 2012.02.11

When you see average speeds in the high-20's on a hilly course, you should know that cruising speed on the flat portions is around 30 mph.