Pikes Peak Race--Entering?

[Green Machine]

I have been doing my best to make some $$$$$$ off the race:

To Private message to Nimbuzz after he challenged me to put my money where my mouth is (what a putz that guy nimbuzz):
EGM wrote:

Ok al....lets bet...
How much you want to bet that opti loses title this year...
you seem well to do...lets do gentleman's bet......i will bet you 10k...
Stop with the BS...lets race.

No response from nimbuzz....dead air.

Then on the optigroups in response to the cocky $$$$ challenge mentioned above:

EGM: But if you dont think a modified hub moter Enless Sphere will win that race over a stock opti...i will make that bet with you. Do you seriously want to bet? i will put up the $$$$$$ with you no problem.

Let me know if your serious and then we can define terms of bet.ERIC

He responded like this:

Bike-on

I don't bet for $, just for a beer or soda, etc.

And finally my masterpiece...i bet the guys on optigroup $1000 that none of them could beat me on my stock 24v Ego Scooter Momas mobile i bought on craigslist for $500. THey talked some smack...but nobody took me up on my offer...despite several opti owners who live nearby:

Ok then lets see if the optibike can beat my $500 craigslist special...ego scooter in a 5 mile road race here in SF...you pick the course 5 miles... I will put up a $1000 wager against anyone who will show up here in sf in next 3 days on stock opti...i swear.

See pic of ego scooter below...500 dollar craiglist special.



The last one i was afraid i might lose...remember the ego has no pedals...but they all talked a bunch of snooty rich guy smack but refused my offer.

I am pro poker player and take bets very seriously. If i make a bet i keep my word and have made many many ridiculous side bets (we call them prop bets) that i feel i am positive EV on (ev = equity value)

Those guys on opti groups are a pretty interesting demographic...not much fun unless you hit them head on with a lot of flamboyant rhetoric...then they just catch on fire and spout off in their maddening rich guy spouts...they are fun to play with....come join in on the fun. I do like the people from optibike when they post....they are good people. Nicholas Turner, Jims son answers my posts a lot...and he seems like a smart hip kid. And Craig..i met him..is really cool guy..the kind of guy you would invite to your party in a second. I really liked him.

[nicobie]

"I am pro poker player and take bets very seriously."

Have you met our Morph999? He plays poker too. I have a feeling that you guys would hit it off right away.

[dogman]

I'm not so positive a designed for a bike hubmotor would finish that climb. I've melted a few, some deliberate, some accidental. Over watting a hubbie to do that climb would be a mistake I think. Right winding and 1000 watts might be the real ticket. But then you may be slower than the opti.

A stock 9 continent kit at 48v, (1200 watts) would be much faster than 12 mph. But for how long? I've never pushed one on such a hill further than 10 miles.
I seriously think most of you out there have no idea how tough a ride this pikes peak thing is.

A 2807 motor in 20 inch rim would be an interesting thing to try on it.

[MadRhino]

I'm not so positive a designed for a bike hubmotor would finish that climb...

Neither am I. My setup wouldn't do it without a cooling pause, but would do very fast until then. Active cooling should be necessary to build a hub that would climb that high at any interesting performance.

[Alan B]

Perhaps we need to design the "boiling water 9C hubmotor". A small tube inlet to bring in water when the temperature exceeds 100C, and some spring loaded vents to release steam when present.

[bigmoose]

Alan, I have thought about what is your idea many times. A mist of de-ionized water into the hubbie is seriously something I would consider. The heat of vaporization is an awesome cooler for copper!

[kfong]

Yep, even with my BMC setup built for torque at 40 volts with a max speed of 21mph in the flats would have a tough time on that hill. I think it would burn out or melt the gears before finishing. I've ridden it continouly in 90+ temps in the trails for that distance, but this continuos climb won't allow for any cooling. I'm carrying 20 useable ahrs and know that won't be enough even if I could pedal, which won't be enough without some training at altitude. A bit more planning is required for this event. If I lived there I would love to just see how well my setup would do on my own since the road is open to the public. I hope we see some more ebikes trying this year.

[kfong]

Double post

[kfong]

Alan, I have thought about what is your idea many times. A mist of de-ionized water into the hubbie is seriously something I would consider. The heat of vaporization is an awesome cooler for copper!

Bigmoose that is actually a very doable and practical idea. Something to really consider for such events. I picked up a pump style mister that atomized the water to keep you cool on walks or hanging out at the beach. It lasts longer than I thought due to the small amounts dispersed. It really cools you off with the lightest breeze

Take this and aim it into the holes drilled in hub motors and the cooling would be significant. Use 2 of them, one on either side and I bet it would solve the overheating problems this year's death race hub motors had. Fill them up for each race.

[Tom Tom]

How about an astro driven thru the crank?

Pic of pikes peak this morning...........

[liveforphysics]

Alan, I have thought about what is your idea many times. A mist of de-ionized water into the hubbie is seriously something I would consider. The heat of vaporization is an awesome cooler for copper!

This was the reason I went to ceramic bearings in my HT35. So I could play with flood/mist cooling options and not worry about the bearings. (not that bearings would ever be a concern for a race bike anyways, but for long-term commuter etc)

I tried an inverted can of computer duster on the stator, bathing it with boiling compressed gas liquid. It had a depressingly minimal effect, taking an entire large can of duster to drop the stator from room temp to ~25degF. Boiling off just a few CC's of water could offer more energy absorption than the whole can of duster. But of course, the water does nothing for you until the motor exceeds 100C, and a mist system could potentially lead to destroying the magnets if the steam temps reach the 200degC, and the excellent thermal transfer between steam and the magnets exceeds the currie temp. Though, if the flow rate was high enough, water should collect in the magnet ring area and not enable them to exceed 100C despite getting steam blasted.

Perhaps a very open vented motor and a ring of jets mounted on the outside spraying at the coils through the vents in the side cover.

Or a ducted-fan-jet motor.

[kfong]

Luke, with the water atomized instead of jets of water. I think it would vaporized before any water would have a chance to soak into the motor. Really worth trying I think for such competitions. Doctorbass showed a venturi effect with outer ring of holes and holes near the center. This could draw the mist into the motor for you.

Here is the mist bottle I picked up at the store a couple of years ago. Pressure is built up by the pump, simple and works remarkably well.

[Arlo1]

I want to but we need to see if my bike is done by then.

[Arlo1]

Downhill on a non-closed-course (other cyclists heading up) is suicide.

The bikes would be going well over 100mph if setup to win.
I personally wouldn't participate in that.

The only thing you would be afraid of is another blown motor on your bike and someone coming back down running into you!
We both know you would not be afraid if your bike was actualy reliable enough to make it


As fir the rest I just read this thread and can't belive the garbage it has lol.
And here I thought I was tring to get in on a real electric motorcycle race.

[bigmoose]

Luke, lets take the mist a step further. Increase the frame to a more monocoupe style construction and fill it with water. Put one of those good CPU cooling pumps that A-Jester referenced a few months ago at the bottom of the "tank" Start with misting at the bottom, because the wheel (magnets) will sling it around and jumble it up inside the motor. Cooling holes each side. Mist it in on the side with a ring of "holes" to spray through. I will bet you will never reach 200 C, it will be way cooler than it would be on air, everywhere. Magnets will not be a problem, blow dry when done and WD40 them.

I seriously have been thinking of this for a long time... also I wish someone would seal the side covers and fill one of these hubs 1/8 to 1/6 full of Dow Corning Heat transfer fluid, SYLTHERM XLT or SYLTHERM HF. Then we can add convective fins to the HubOD between the spokes to convect the heat out. Again, not a lot of oil, but a moving mist inside the housing. It would need "atomizers" that dip into the pool of oil that is being held to the outside by centripetal forces. Take some tinkering, or if we worked for Mr. Big... some en-gen-eer-inn!

[Arlo1]

Hey bigmoose.
I have already planned to put the axel of my x5 in the lathe and drill the center out very small from the side oposit to the wires and put a 1/8 pipe tap in the end then plumb a windsheild washer sprayer into the system full of water and drill a few very small holes through the axle inside the hub on the radial axis and let the water spray the windings from the center my motor gets hot enough it will just turn to steam!!!

[bigmoose]

Arlo, I like how you think! Only thing I would use de-ionized or distilled water. Put 1 drop, just a drop, no more of Dawn diswashing soap in per gallon of water. Looking forward to your test!

[Arlo1]

Arlo, I like how you think! Only thing I would use de-ionized or distilled water. Put 1 drop, just a drop, no more of Dawn diswashing soap in per gallon of water. Looking forward to your test!

Its going to be a while but I will do it!
Now time to rest so I can work on the other projects.......

[dogman]

Cool idea Moose. Makes me think of Reid Welchs idea for an underwater running motor. He was filling his hubmotor with oil, but it might work good for heat transfer too. Hmmm.

Air cooling sucks for sure. The no water molecules in the air didn't help my death race motor any. Smoke poured out the cooling holes real nice when it ignited the strings that tie down the windings in a 9c. Other than letting the smoke out, the cooling holes didn't do much good.

Mabye you could just precool the motor? Pack dry ice into the holes before you start? Every little bit would help. If you were far enough ahead, you could take the time to stop and stuff more dry ice chunks into the cooling holes.

Sure wish this race was closer to my house.

[Hillhater]

why not run 2 motors,.. and either share the load, or alternate their use..1 mile at a time. ..!!

[Bike_on]

I have been doing my best to make some $$$$$$ off the race:

He responded like this:

Bike-on

I don't bet for $, just for a beer or soda, etc.

Xgreen: Keeping an eye on you and your teases of the Opti group. No, I don't gamble for $$...that's my conviction. However, I did make the last offer and the wheel is now on your bike. Pedal or get off.

The bet offer is still good for a beer or soda of your choice. Opti vs all hub designs up Pikes.

[MadScientist]

and the 'bad-taste' of sweet irony is too delicious.

One more thing: The Assault on the Peak is a bicycle ride up Pike's Peak. Showing up with a motorcycle class vehicle would be in bad taste.

You completely miss the point. This is a private bicycle ride. The course is "closed to motor vehicle traffic". If you bring a sufficiently powerful electric-motorcycle-with-pedals, someone is bound to complain and there will be consequences. The police can issue a ticket for riding a non-street legal vehicle. Organizers can close the event to electrics. I can't say for sure what will happen, but it won't be good. I have many years experience volunteering as an advocate for outdoor recreation, including time as a director of a national nonprofit, and have seen access closed down too many times for far less obvious offenses.

Ken

P.S. Try making a point of meeting some of us Optibike "pikers". You will be surprised ... and impressed.

[Green Machine]

Xgreen: Keeping an eye on you and your teases of the Opti group. No, I don't gamble for $$...that's my conviction. However, I did make the last offer and the wheel is now on your bike. Pedal or get off.

The bet offer is still good for a beer or soda of your choice. Opti vs all hub designs up Pikes.

Im just mousing around with you guys over at the optigroups like cat style...just some friendly prod and jabs to get you excited...we are just playing..romping around on the carpet. I just want you guys to show up to the race all pissed off and in force...with a whole bunch of them there optibikes. I want you guys come poised like the optigang...a big bad bunch of you all out in the open like a group of gazelles.

Then the race starts and i am going to pounce down and bite down with my vices like a giant cat....blood is going to spout everywhere and limbs are going to break, records are going to be beaten...i am crazy like that. And yes i might end up in a Colorado jail cell somewhere and will have a good story afterwards like an electric powered martin luther king or something. I am going to get my motor and controller from physics...and my drive system from matt. Them guys is going to provide me my claws and teeth.

As craig said "when the green flag drops the BS drops."

....no no no no!!! nevermind me just daydreaming Dont be pasting this over to the optigroups. I dont want team opti to be no show..saying something like "someone might get hurt"

Sure sure sure...lets bet a beer on that...in fact lets bet one beer and one chaser to the exact parameters you defined above. Agreed? Gentelmans style?...chaser will be Gentlemans Jack Daniels just to keep it neat.

Meet you in boulder bar after the race?

[dogman]

Good point. Who wants to ride around on an illegal, unregistered, uninsured motor vehicle in front of a bunch of state cops, sherrifs, or park rangers.

The bike had better be disposable to ride it in front of all that heat. This isn't the long traditional pikes peak hill climb, where dirt bikes and dune buggies compete. That's a different event on a different date.

So beating the optibikes with a not street legal bike would be pretty pointless. This is a ride for bikes, not homemade motorcycles like we took to the death race.

Nothing non bike though about two hub motors, provided they don't draw more than street legal watts. So two 350 watts, or one 750 at a time, etc. I wouldn't call a typical kit running 48v unfair though, even though it would draw about 1200 watts peak. I'd just call it unlikely to finish if ridden at the full 1200 watts.

It would be facinating to see a nicely geared RC motor pull 1000 watts up the thing though.

[Green Machine]

Yeah right...

This point is too strong to argue with.

Losing your very expensive ebike would be worst than jail.

Dogman wins again.

Whatever bike enters will have to be stealth enough to pass as a bicycle....stealth looks and stealth performance...no speed machines. That seems obvious with speed limits,cops, etc...its a ride and not a race...a point i have been making all the while. This is not a endless shere styled race....steer clear guys.

And i have heard that the ride is going to include the ride back down as part of the "race" this year...i dont know if its true...but i have heard that on the optigroups who seem to have inside information into that "ride". As physics said..on an ES bike this could be downright dangerous. Kill someone on that "ride" and you will be national news...high speed ebikes might be recognized and outlawed overnight. Its got all that cnn story potential...death by ebike atop pikes peak...etc etc.

Colorado law enforcement is nothing to f with. They got 4x4 cop trucks big enough to fit an ebike in the back...and i would be stuck in colorado...wrangling with the court system trying to get my bike back.

Heavy Sigh.....