eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.

Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby DrkAngel » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:55 am

greenerwheels wrote:Yeah you could build a serious torque monster with one of those! There maybe more work involved in making it work, but being able to control the gear ratio (top speed) would make for a safer and better hill climbing ride. What kind of life would you get out of one of those brushed motors?

Greenerwheels

450w model:
EZip Trailz - I geared it up 25% and ran it 3000 miles ... so far!
EZip Mountain Trailz - over-volted to 37v and run 3500 miles ... and 2 Winters ... so far!

Yes! ... holds up well to over-volting, as long as you don't "dog it" on hills, etc.

Note: I grease the gear section twice yearly, or at any noise variance.
2009, and newer, motors are noticeably quieter!
Last edited by DrkAngel on Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby DrkAngel » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:28 pm

DrkAngel wrote:Better prices on the EZip geared motors!

The attachment MY1080z.gif is no longer available


450W GEARED Motor - 24 Volts (Style: MY1018Z) Price: $65.00

250W GEARED Motor - 24 Volts (Style: MY1018Z) Price: $55.00

Motor is permanent magnet, "brush" type.

Motor gear is a 9T, "Standard" 1/2 x 1/8" chain. (type 410)
Motor shaft is 11mm, 4mm key.
9TL.JPG
9TL.JPG (25.52 KiB) Viewed 2374 times

With a 20T rear gear, at 24v, attached to a 26" wheel, top speed is 16mph.
16T = 20mph.
22T = 14mph.
etc.
36v = 150% speed
12v= 50% speed
etc.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby ViBiker » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:27 am

DrkAngel wrote:Of course, still in the offing is an etrike conversion. Schwinn Meredian with eZip motor added. Nice cargo space and hanging big SLA batteries below the rear axle will greatly increase stability.
"Schwinn Meridian Adult Tricycle", Front hub motor would work, but I prefer the re-gearing ability of the EZip gear motor.
Rear freewheel:
16T=20mph
18T=18mph
20T=16mph
22T=14mph
etc.
I've had many requests as mobility devices for nearby Senior housing project.

Also, without the "need" for pedaling, a big comfy seat can be dropped down, further lowering the center of gravity, thus, enhancing stability.
Foot platforms w/outrigger skid pads, or "training wheels", could be added, for additional turning safety, in "Mobility Device" application.
Beats paying $2000-$3000, or more, for other "mobility devices".
Plus the bonus of higher speed, and a cargo basket, for runs to the grocery store, etc.

As a Mobility Device, crank, pedals etc. could be removed. This would allow the simple addition of floorpan, for setting feet on. The big advantage is that the EZip geared motor could be directly connected to the rear axle, and would act as an effective braking system, when throttle released! Making a regen controller feasible?

That was me, in my picture, a few years ago.
I've put on, a few, years, and pounds, since then.
I do have a mobility scooter, it did cost, more than, $2000.
The problem, is that, when I take it to the local store, or to my doctors appointments, it takes a beating on the sidewalks.
It moves pretty slow, so I am afraid to take it on the streets.

Several of my neighbors have the Schwinn Tricycles and seem happy with them.
They flaunt them, bragging about all the groceries they can carry.
Sadly, I don't feel I could pedal enough, especially will the small hill I have to get over, to use one.
If there was a budget, motorized, or pedal assist version, I would gladly get one.

I just wanted to chime in that I am hopefully anticipating further developments on this subject.

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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby ions82 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:52 pm

I'm in the process of building a mobility/transport trike. It originally started as a handcycle (the kind that sits upright). My plan is to remove the drivetrain and replace the fork with a triple-clamp "chopper" fork that I bought on fleaBay. It won't have any other means for propulsion than the electrical system. I will be using a DD hub motor, and I have every intention of riding it into a grocery store. I use a wheelchair to get from A to B, and I've always wanted an electric vehicle. Seems like it will be the perfect fit. I'm glad that the technology is really catching on and improving.
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby DrkAngel » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:43 pm

Schwinn Meridian eConversion, in the works!

I will fully document the project and post details!

;<}
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby 999zip999 » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:23 pm

There are people that have tric's in there garage with dead batteries aka Iacocca's 3 wheeler. That would be a nice find. Just batteries and new bushes
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby DrkAngel » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:30 pm

I just got an order for a Schwinn Meridian eConversion.
A zealous gentleman needs a device that allows his wife to walk her own dog.

The plan is for a, non-pedal, mobility device
Which simplifies the project.
Pedals and "transition" hub can be disabled, and an EZip geared motor can be connected directly to the rear axle.
A simple platform, supported by the immobilized pedals, should be fairly simple.

Don't think I'll make much profit, but someone is actually sponsoring-financing my R&D!
Which is a pleasant change.
Should be fun.
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby DrkAngel » Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:54 pm

Picked up a cheap eTrike candidate
Kent "Alameda 26" Adult Tricycle." - $149 delivered to nearest Walmart.
Click on Picture
Image

A cheap copy of the Schwinn Meredian? (About 1/2 the price.)
Aluminum frame.
Rear axle is a 5/8" shaft with freewheel and "drum" style brake, (friction band).
Plenty of room for additional 5/8" ID sprocket or freewheel.
Rear wheels have the equivalent of a limited slip differential, unsure of method, but there is no "dragging" around corners and each wheel always receives torque. - Friction method! Limited, but some, torque.

Down sides:
Fear of tipping - especially with seat raised into proper pedaling position, there is a feeling of tipping over, at every turn.
Important to slow down and lean body around turns!
Makes me seriously consider slowing down the motorized version ... running at 12V, instead of 24V?

Chain is "tensioned" with a solidly mounted idler sprocket, poor-cheap method.
Might work well to replace with freewheel mounted on motor! ... ?

Will have to mull over some alternatives ... before modification ensues!

Oem handle bars are as wide as a Texas Steer's.
As wide as the rear wheels.
Maybe a track indicator?
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby ddk » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:50 pm

... oops
Last edited by ddk on Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby Sancho's Horse » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:58 pm

I am working on a Worksman, and they have an axle which is keyed and allows a freewheel anywhere across the axle width. They also are not cheap (ironically, I am). Most of these Meridian and Alameda types do not have a lot of space for freewheel placement tinkering.

I am interested to see the differential. The worksman gets its differential abilities from the way the wheels themselves are constructed. They work great, but limit replacement options.
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby ddk » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:52 am

most the trikes I've converted that have band brakes limit the room on a tubed axle (like what the wm photo shows.
If the axle has a 6-speed gear cluster included then there is no room for additional freewheels.
Replacing the band brake with a disc brake gets additional room as well as only using a single-speed freewheel.
You can get freewheel adapters for a 5/8" axle from sick bikes staton-inc and likely a few other sources.
For disc brake adapters it's kind of a 'build your own' using a 5/8" hub -or- I drilled out the drum of a band brake assembly to accept a disc. The problem then becomes how to mount the caliper without welding stuff.

The least expensive conversion, in terms of labor, is to use a front hub motor.

Sancho's Horse wrote:...I am interested to see the differential. The worksman gets its differential abilities from the way the wheels themselves are constructed. They work great, but limit replacement options.

+1
me2
Last edited by ddk on Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby DrkAngel » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:15 am

Already ordered up a 5/8” ID Adaptor for freewheel sprockets 1.10" wide, 2 set screws - $12.62

Staton-inc.com has some great items, but their "search" is useless!
Links to similar items:

Also available - 5/8" ID x 1/2" wide Adaptor for freewheel Sprocket 3 prong Design - $15.78
5/8" ID x 1/2" wide Adaptor for freewheel sprocket - $13.50

Also found a great little toybox item! -
Image - $5 !!!
"Gear Box 6.5 to 1 reduction, #40-79 Jacobson, Self Propelled Lawn Mower transmission"
Rated for 7HP!!! ... Yeah ... got a few!
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby ddk » Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:59 pm

...having read the thread finally I concur with limiting the top speed to below 10mph.
8mph is still tip-worthy---- actually you can tip a standard delta trike at just about any speed.

8mph is a nice cruising speed for a tricycle with no modifications. Someone walking their dog is 8mph territory.
The center of gravity would have to be lowered by about 15" for higher speeds, but then you run into problems with footrests/pedals being too high etc.
Stretching the frame, or starting with a stretched frame is the approach I took for my personal trikes.

My trikes are also my mobility devices, except I transfer to store electric carts if the store provides them. If not it depends on how I'm feeling whether or not I enter a cartless store (mostly I won't, as I can only walk for short distances)

...that jacobson drive isn't a differential drive which is why it's $5, nor can it handle hugher rpms for very long
(ask me how I know :lol: )
(oh, don't bother... I destroyed several)
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby DrkAngel » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:28 pm

DrkAngel wrote:
Also found a great little toybox item! -
Image - $5 !!!
"Gear Box 6.5 to 1 reduction, #40-79 Jacobson, Self Propelled Lawn Mower transmission"
Rated for 7HP!!! ... Yeah ... got a few!

Also, different location, I picked up 6 (new) B&D 12V VSR drills, dual range 0-300 & 0-1200 rpm.
Together ... I can build ...

Motorized pull wagons, with Variable Speed Reversible controls on handle.
Pull loads up hills, or just sit in it and drive.

"Kiddy" go carts.

All sorts of toys!

Hey! ... I missed my mid-life crisis.
So please ... let me enjoy my 2nd childhood!
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Alameda Drivetrain

Postby DrkAngel » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:05 pm

26" Alameda Trike

Rear Axle -
Looks to be room for another freewheel!
Alameda Axle.JPG
Alameda Axle.JPG (70.57 KiB) Viewed 576 times


Chain Idler - Idler sprocket, hanging on end of bolt.
Alameda idler.JPG
Alameda idler.JPG (54.05 KiB) Viewed 576 times


Differential? - left wheel is operated through some type of friction device!
Right wheel is solid, to axle.
Left wheel is capable of light to moderate acceleration-braking.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby ddk » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:16 am

alameda keyway.jpg
alameda keyway.jpg (27.5 KiB) Viewed 747 times

assuming the keyway is machined throughout the open area...
yep
enough room to shuffle two freewheels around and (the tricky part) drop in the keys.

alameda friction coupler.jpg
alameda friction coupler.jpg (23.44 KiB) Viewed 747 times


seems to me this might be a an interesting disassemble.
Hopefully the friction coupler isn't welded to the axle ends (probably isn't)
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby DrkAngel » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:15 am

I was thinking of adding another freewheel between the brake and the pedal freewheel.

3 freewheel.JPG
3 freewheel.JPG (77.33 KiB) Viewed 724 times

Hmmm?
Looks like there might be enough space to use a 5 - 6 speed freewheel, for the pedal chain.
Tho ... rigging the derailleur might be a problem ... I don't have aluminum welding capability.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby ddk » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:57 pm

DrkAngel wrote:I was thinking of adding the 3rd freewheel between the brake and the pedal freewheel.
...
Looks like there might be enough space to use a 5 speed freewheel, for the pedal chain.
Tho ... rigging the derailleur might be a problem ... I don't have aluminum welding capability.
Probably not a 6-speed.which is what I have for 5/8" axles.
There's not enough room to drop in the keys unless the keyway is cut throughout the length of the axle (some old workmans trikes had this "feature")
You'll be wanting to mount at least a 44-tooth freewheel to reduce the speed of your gear motor btw, unless you're thinking of adding a jackshaft for additional gear reduction.
-or did you want old people cruizin' @ 17mph on an unstable trike? :lol:
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby DrkAngel » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:58 pm

ddk wrote:
DrkAngel wrote:I was thinking of adding the 3rd freewheel between the brake and the pedal freewheel.
...
Looks like there might be enough space to use a 5 speed freewheel, for the pedal chain.
Tho ... rigging the derailleur might be a problem ... I don't have aluminum welding capability.
Probably not a 6-speed.which is what I have for 5/8" axles.
There's not enough room to drop in the keys unless the keyway is cut throughout the length of the axle (some old workmans trikes had this "feature")
You'll be wanting to mount at least a 44-tooth freewheel to reduce the speed of your gear motor btw, unless you're thinking of adding a jackshaft for additional gear reduction.
-or did you want old people cruizin' @ 17mph on an unstable trike? :lol:

Keyway, and keys, are full through the center.
Just slide the chain freewheel to the center (for the motor), add 5spd freewheel in old spot, everything "keyed" ... no additional key needed!

12V to reduce speed, or, potentiometer (POT) in HALL circuit, to limit speed.
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby ddk » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:59 pm

DrkAngel wrote:
ddk wrote:
DrkAngel wrote:I was thinking of adding the 3rd freewheel between the brake and the pedal freewheel.
...
Looks like there might be enough space to use a 5 speed freewheel, for the pedal chain.
Tho ... rigging the derailleur might be a problem ... I don't have aluminum welding capability.
Probably not a 6-speed.which is what I have for 5/8" axles.
There's not enough room to drop in the keys unless the keyway is cut throughout the length of the axle (some old workmans trikes had this "feature")
You'll be wanting to mount at least a 44-tooth freewheel to reduce the speed of your gear motor btw, unless you're thinking of adding a jackshaft for additional gear reduction.
-or did you want old people cruizin' @ 17mph on an unstable trike? :lol:

Keyway, and keys, are full through the center.
Just slide the chain freewheel to the center (for the motor), add 5spd freewheel in old spot, everything "keyed" ... no additional key needed!

12V to reduce speed, or, potentiometer (POT) in HALL circuit, to limit speed.


You'd lose the motor's so-called "sweet spot" where it's most efficient/effective i.e speed/torque, which is close to but a bit lower than it's rated rpm.
But then again...
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby ddk » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:08 pm

DrkAngel wrote:Keyway, and keys, are full through the center.
Just slide the chain freewheel to the center (for the motor), add 5spd freewheel in old spot, everything "keyed" ... no additional key needed!

12V to reduce speed, or, potentiometer (POT) in HALL circuit, to limit speed.

Not having an example of the alameda trike in front of me I'm making assumptions based on the 7 trikes I've worked on that use similar tubed axles.
Assumptions are for chumps (which I resemble)
...about the freewheel size
You use these motors, so you know what the speed is using a 17-tooth freewheel with a 26" wheel.
At 10mph or less (I recommend 8mph) you'd lose the motor's so-called "sweet spot" where it's most efficient/effective i.e speed/torque, which is close to but a bit lower than it's rated rpm. (about 14-15mph with the 17-tooth gear on a 26" wheel)
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby DrkAngel » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:27 pm

Alameda has a 20T rear freewheel sprocket, same as the eZip that the motor is designed for.
Efficiency, on this brush motor, is best in the 50 - 80% of "no load" speed (18mph), a 9 - 14+mph "sweet spot" @ 24V.
This efficiency seems to translate well with higher voltage, @ 36V the torque and, presumably, the efficiency, are "sweet" in the 13-22mph range.

Theoretically, 12V would provide a 4.5-7mph "sweet spot" with a 8mph top speed.

"Effectively" ... partial throttle via a PWM controller provides the equivalent of lower voltage, including a shift of the "sweet spot".

Related - 44 Magnum

Of course, motor (watt) output is reduced.
At 12V, or the equivalent, the 450w motor would output a mere 225w.

At 24V, with a potentiometer, I should be able to "dial in" any equivalent voltage.

PS Hidden TURBO button could bypass potentiometer providing full power.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby Chalo » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:21 am

I've built, rebuilt, and repaired a lot of three-wheelers over the years. Mostly Worksmans, but also Columbias, Schwinns, Suns, and various pedicab trikes (which I consider to be in a different category).

I can't help but think that the Kent trike in question is less a mobility device and more a way to economize on long term elder care expenses. Just sayin'.

Keep it slow. I don't think you can go too slow for this machine. It would be easy to go too fast, though-- not only with regards to treacherous handling qualities, but also too fast for the weak wheels and axles when the rider inevitably encounters bumps. Sidewalks have more unpleasant surprises than traffic lanes.

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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby etriker » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:36 am

I bolted a Tricruiser rear end right onto a Schwinn Meridian.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x218 ... NP0007.jpg

https://www.curriestore.com/product/IZIP-Frame/439/

Got the Tricruiser rear end on eBay.

Sold my biodiesel Mercedes and the whole biodiesel setup. The trike does the job now.

I rode the trike for over a year before I put a motor on it.

Trikes are not bikes and it takes awhile to learn how to handle one and get over the fear of tipping.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0IJgoj4chI&feature=plcp

The youngest person the ride that trike so far was a 9 year old girl and the oldest was an 84 year old man.
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Re: eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Postby DrkAngel » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:13 pm

Chalo wrote:
I can't help but think that the Kent trike in question is less a mobility device and more a way to economize on long term elder care expenses. Just sayin'.

Chalo

My consideration is towards a greater degree of independence.
Including financial.

The typical "mobility scooter" ranges in the $2000-$3000.
ETrike conversion ... well under $500!

Advantages
Besides price, An eTrike conversion has the advantages of:
Further range.
Cargo capacity.
Inexpensive component replacement.
Re-gearing capability.
Higher speed - if advisable.

Disadvantages
Poor "inside" maneuverability.
Not authorized for Social Services (medicare) payment assist.

Designed for paved trail cruising.
Good for trips to the store, groceries, prescriptions, doctor appointments, laundromat etc.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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