eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

[ddk]

alameda keyway.jpg (27.5 KiB) Viewed 744 times

assuming the keyway is machined throughout the open area...
yep
enough room to shuffle two freewheels around and (the tricky part) drop in the keys.

alameda friction coupler.jpg (23.44 KiB) Viewed 744 times

seems to me this might be a an interesting disassemble.
Hopefully the friction coupler isn't welded to the axle ends (probably isn't)

[DrkAngel]

I was thinking of adding another freewheel between the brake and the pedal freewheel.

3 freewheel.JPG (77.33 KiB) Viewed 721 times

Hmmm?
Looks like there might be enough space to use a 5 - 6 speed freewheel, for the pedal chain.
Tho ... rigging the derailleur might be a problem ... I don't have aluminum welding capability.

[ddk]

I was thinking of adding the 3rd freewheel between the brake and the pedal freewheel.
...
Looks like there might be enough space to use a 5 speed freewheel, for the pedal chain.
Tho ... rigging the derailleur might be a problem ... I don't have aluminum welding capability.

Probably not a 6-speed.which is what I have for 5/8" axles.
There's not enough room to drop in the keys unless the keyway is cut throughout the length of the axle (some old workmans trikes had this "feature")
You'll be wanting to mount at least a 44-tooth freewheel to reduce the speed of your gear motor btw, unless you're thinking of adding a jackshaft for additional gear reduction.
-or did you want old people cruizin' @ 17mph on an unstable trike?

[DrkAngel]

I was thinking of adding the 3rd freewheel between the brake and the pedal freewheel.
...
Looks like there might be enough space to use a 5 speed freewheel, for the pedal chain.
Tho ... rigging the derailleur might be a problem ... I don't have aluminum welding capability.

Probably not a 6-speed.which is what I have for 5/8" axles.
There's not enough room to drop in the keys unless the keyway is cut throughout the length of the axle (some old workmans trikes had this "feature")
You'll be wanting to mount at least a 44-tooth freewheel to reduce the speed of your gear motor btw, unless you're thinking of adding a jackshaft for additional gear reduction.
-or did you want old people cruizin' @ 17mph on an unstable trike?

Keyway, and keys, are full through the center.
Just slide the chain freewheel to the center (for the motor), add 5spd freewheel in old spot, everything "keyed" ... no additional key needed!

12V to reduce speed, or, potentiometer (POT) in HALL circuit, to limit speed.

[ddk]

I was thinking of adding the 3rd freewheel between the brake and the pedal freewheel.
...
Looks like there might be enough space to use a 5 speed freewheel, for the pedal chain.
Tho ... rigging the derailleur might be a problem ... I don't have aluminum welding capability.

Probably not a 6-speed.which is what I have for 5/8" axles.
There's not enough room to drop in the keys unless the keyway is cut throughout the length of the axle (some old workmans trikes had this "feature")
You'll be wanting to mount at least a 44-tooth freewheel to reduce the speed of your gear motor btw, unless you're thinking of adding a jackshaft for additional gear reduction.
-or did you want old people cruizin' @ 17mph on an unstable trike?

Keyway, and keys, are full through the center.
Just slide the chain freewheel to the center (for the motor), add 5spd freewheel in old spot, everything "keyed" ... no additional key needed!

12V to reduce speed, or, potentiometer (POT) in HALL circuit, to limit speed.

You'd lose the motor's so-called "sweet spot" where it's most efficient/effective i.e speed/torque, which is close to but a bit lower than it's rated rpm.
But then again...

[ddk]

Keyway, and keys, are full through the center.
Just slide the chain freewheel to the center (for the motor), add 5spd freewheel in old spot, everything "keyed" ... no additional key needed!

12V to reduce speed, or, potentiometer (POT) in HALL circuit, to limit speed.

Not having an example of the alameda trike in front of me I'm making assumptions based on the 7 trikes I've worked on that use similar tubed axles.
Assumptions are for chumps (which I resemble)
...about the freewheel size
You use these motors, so you know what the speed is using a 17-tooth freewheel with a 26" wheel.
At 10mph or less (I recommend 8mph) you'd lose the motor's so-called "sweet spot" where it's most efficient/effective i.e speed/torque, which is close to but a bit lower than it's rated rpm. (about 14-15mph with the 17-tooth gear on a 26" wheel)

[DrkAngel]

Alameda has a 20T rear freewheel sprocket, same as the eZip that the motor is designed for.
Efficiency, on this brush motor, is best in the 50 - 80% of "no load" speed (18mph), a 9 - 14+mph "sweet spot" @ 24V.
This efficiency seems to translate well with higher voltage, @ 36V the torque and, presumably, the efficiency, are "sweet" in the 13-22mph range.

Theoretically, 12V would provide a 4.5-7mph "sweet spot" with a 8mph top speed.

"Effectively" ... partial throttle via a PWM controller provides the equivalent of lower voltage, including a shift of the "sweet spot".

Related - 44 Magnum

Of course, motor (watt) output is reduced.
At 12V, or the equivalent, the 450w motor would output a mere 225w.

At 24V, with a potentiometer, I should be able to "dial in" any equivalent voltage.

PS Hidden TURBO button could bypass potentiometer providing full power.

[Chalo]

I've built, rebuilt, and repaired a lot of three-wheelers over the years. Mostly Worksmans, but also Columbias, Schwinns, Suns, and various pedicab trikes (which I consider to be in a different category).

I can't help but think that the Kent trike in question is less a mobility device and more a way to economize on long term elder care expenses. Just sayin'.

Keep it slow. I don't think you can go too slow for this machine. It would be easy to go too fast, though-- not only with regards to treacherous handling qualities, but also too fast for the weak wheels and axles when the rider inevitably encounters bumps. Sidewalks have more unpleasant surprises than traffic lanes.

Chalo

[etriker]

I bolted a Tricruiser rear end right onto a Schwinn Meridian.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x218 ... NP0007.jpg

https://www.curriestore.com/product/IZIP-Frame/439/

Got the Tricruiser rear end on eBay.

Sold my biodiesel Mercedes and the whole biodiesel setup. The trike does the job now.

I rode the trike for over a year before I put a motor on it.

Trikes are not bikes and it takes awhile to learn how to handle one and get over the fear of tipping.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0IJgoj4chI&feature=plcp

The youngest person the ride that trike so far was a 9 year old girl and the oldest was an 84 year old man.

[DrkAngel]

I can't help but think that the Kent trike in question is less a mobility device and more a way to economize on long term elder care expenses. Just sayin'.

Chalo

My consideration is towards a greater degree of independence.
Including financial.

The typical "mobility scooter" ranges in the $2000-$3000.
ETrike conversion ... well under $500!

Advantages
Besides price, An eTrike conversion has the advantages of:
Further range.
Cargo capacity.
Inexpensive component replacement.
Re-gearing capability.
Higher speed - if advisable.

Disadvantages
Poor "inside" maneuverability.
Not authorized for Social Services (medicare) payment assist.

Designed for paved trail cruising.
Good for trips to the store, groceries, prescriptions, doctor appointments, laundromat etc.

[ddk]

Alameda has a 20T rear freewheel sprocket, same as the eZip that the motor is designed for.

yes, I forgot what it was was used on the ezip. So I pulled a number outta my hat.

A tricycle was the best investment I made for my health.
I heartily recommend them to any older persons in loo of a mobility scooter.
-within reason (such as speed )

-if the alameda tricycle works out ok I will be copying your build (kinda but different) for the folks that want and need them.

[Chalo]

I can't help but think that the Kent trike in question is less a mobility device and more a way to economize on long term elder care expenses. Just sayin'.

My consideration is towards a greater degree of independence.
Including financial.

I'm not talking bout the elder's expenses. I'm talking about his or her longevity.

Chalo

[Sancho's Horse]

Wow etriker! That was some unexpected two wheel action on that trike. Pretty cool!

Chalo, I took care of my grandfather before he passed away from prostate cancer. He survived the Great Depression, and World War II (the pacific). The day after he received something like 110 radioactive pellets implanted in his prostate, we stopped by his house and he was up on a ladder painting his barn. On one occasion he said to me, "getting old ain't for sissies." This is getting a bit personal, but the occassion was a day where he had to admit that his vertebrae, which had collapsed due to cancer, had pinched his spinal column in such a way he could not move or feel his legs.

I think it is vital that you and others point out the risks of trikes. I also want you to know that for the vast majority of elderly in this and most countries, economic expense is as much a risk to health as anything. My grandfather was fortunate, but he understood that.

I am looking forward to this build, because I would like to see how inexpensively a trike can be pulled off (safely of course).

[DrkAngel]

I am torn ...
On the one hand, a motor only "rig" allows lowering the seat, (lower center of gravity reduces tipping danger), and proper footrests.

On the other, a freewheel allows pedal assist, for exercise and climbing hills.

The Alameda is only briefly available, every couple weeks.
If I could grab a 2nd trike it would be much simpler!
Just try both ...

But, I did order components for both builds.
I found a 27T freewheel, allowing ~12mph @24V.
Also ordered 28 & 32 sprockets adaptable to 5/8" adapters.
Still waiting for delivery, so I can "think" a little longer.

[DrkAngel]

Bargain price on Schwinn Meridian Adult 26-Inch 3-Wheel Bike.
Walmart and Amazon both offering them at $239, with free shipping.

It has a 22T solid rear sprocket. Ideal for mounting an eZip brush, geared motor!
While doing so would disengage the rear drum brake and pedals, it would be held back and slowed down by the geared motor ... stopped with front brake. Available reversing controller for emergency braking and reverse. Additionally the 9T to 22T sprocket ratio would limit 24V speed to a stable 12+mph, Ideal for use as a mobility-cargo scooter.

Amazon.com


Walmart.com


Price Tracking

[Chalo]

Bargain price on Schwinn Meridian Adult 26-Inch 3-Wheel Bike.
Walmart and Amazon both offering them at $239, with free shipping.

That's deep enough into the oh-so-cheap range that it starts to look worth it just for the frame and rear axle assembly. It would not be ridiculously expensive to lace some decent rims on those rear hubs, and maybe switch to a dual crown chopper fork with a disc or drum brake in front.

Then you could reduce the wheel diameter to 24", or with shorter cranks, even 20". That would yield stronger wheels, lower step-through, and lower center of mass-- all good things for a mobility device.

[SamTexas]

I'm still in search for decent tricycle with:
1) 20" wheels all around
2) Front V-brake
3) Rear V or disc brake on both wheels
4) Chromo frame.
You guys have any recommendations?

[Chalo]

I'm still in search for decent tricycle with:
1) 20" wheels all around
2) Front V-brake
3) Rear V or disc brake on both wheels
4) Chromo frame.
You guys have any recommendations?

I have never seen a granny trike with brakes on all three wheels, except old ones with a differential gear coupled to a coaster brake.

The Cycles Maximus pedicab/cargo trike meets your criteria more or less (it comes stock with a hydraulic rim brake in front, and the rear wheels are some slightly larger than 20" moped size), but it's very large, very heavy, and very expensive.


Price list for Cycles Maximus trikes

Most trikes need enough material to provide adequate stiffness that using chromoly rather than ordinary high tensile steel is not of much benefit. That is, if they have enough material to be adequately stiff, they are more than strong enough for the job. (Some are not stiff enough or strong enough, so caveat emptor.)

[SamTexas]

That's weird, isn't it. One would thought that granny tricycles are those that need the best brakes. I would hate to be old and going down a hill on a tricycle with wimpy brakes.

The pedicab and/or cargo trikes are not what I'm looking for. Just a small, light and well built traditional tricycle.

In the end I might end up with a Sun recumbent delta trike. About 2 feet longer than what I want.

[Sancho's Horse]

I have a worksman, and it is going to have braking overkill. It already has a drum brake on the front, an electronic brake and disk brake on the motor, and I am going to use a go-kart disk brakes on the live axle. It doesn't have a differential per se, just a limited slip differential at the hub. I have worried that this limited slip differential at the hub could give a bit of play in the rear during braking, so until I have this figured out, I am going to let that aspect wait.

Originally, all it had on it was a coaster brake. Not a stopping machine.

[Chalo]

Most granny trikes move at walking speed, when they move at all. At walking speed, having a coaster brake on one rear wheel is good enough.

Upright pedal trikes don't lend themselves well to powered applications, in my opinion.

[Rassy]

Sam and others reading this thread, I think the Sun EZ-3 USX (Underseat steering model) is a good choice. The trike has good brakes, is very comfortable and easy to pedal, corners better than other trikes with it's VW style slanted rear wheels. It is stable at 20 MPH, I once had a pusher trailer that would move it close to 30 MPH with no issues, but I didn't like that high of a speed. It works great with a simple front hub.

Docnjoj's wife rides one. I had one which my Daughter-In-Law currently has. It fits all sizes with a simple seat adjustment. I am over 6' and Daughter-In-Law is under 5' tall.

Downside, the trike is large and so is the price tag.

[SamTexas]

Thanks Rassy. My search for a decent, well built, traditional tricycle is coming to a sad ending. They just don't exist. I will likely end up with the Sun EZ-3 USX as you suggested, or the same model with the regular monkey handle bar. It appears to be easier for a handicapped person (BIL) to get in and out. This used one is listed on Houston craigslist for $800.

Nice to hear from you Rassy. Have a good weekend.

SunDeltaTrike.jpg (40.98 KiB) Viewed 250 times

[Chalo]

Yeah, you should go for the unsuspended, above seat steering model. The USX is heavy like you wouldn't believe, an odious chore to work on, and really slow for any given amount of pedal effort. No, thanks.

There is a reason that there are no high quality, intelligently made granny trikes for street use. That layout makes it impossible to make a trike that rides worth a damn, regardless what features you include. So people who care about the ride don't bother with them. The better granny trikes (e.g. Worksman Adaptable) are completely out of their element on the street, but they are great for doing what they're designed to do-- hauling a basket full of tools and supplies around an industrial site at 4mph. For 25 years in a row.

[Rassy]

Yes, the EZ-3 SL (or AL) delta is ok. After his stroke, I gave my brother his choice and he wanted the OS model (Over Seat Steering). He's been using it for several years now and really likes it. No motor, but he lives in a flat area. He has limited use of his left leg and no use of his left arm. He clips in to help control his left leg and allow mostly right leg pedaling. The SL isn't quite as stable as the USX, and just has a 16" front wheel, but the handlebars do give him something to hang on to when getting on and off of the trike.

The one pictured above looks like a newer version. It appears to have dual rear disk brakes where as my brother's has a rear disk in the driveline which thus only stops one rear wheel.