My ultra-sufficient semi-recumbent tricycle project

[ddk]

Quote-"after many hours of searching
and unanswered e-mails
I'm just gonna assume the cyclone recumbent trike(s) don't exist ...but it did somewhat appeal to me (the dual-motor version)"

Yeah, I looked long and hard and couldn't find anything either.
Baffling, and disappointing.
I fully expected them to have Chinese "crappy" build issuses, but at those prices I could deal with re-welding the frame, replacing the hardware, etc.

I believe that the Cyclone Trike and the motors are made in Tiawan and probably have a higher level of quality than some Chinese stuff.
otherDoc

A recumbent trike with a cyclone motor exists, probably lots of them do.

See: http://www.recumbents.com/forums/topic. ... IC_ID=4266

-Warren.

What may have existed before seems to have vanished
Warren -You might check the first link in that post... for me it 404's
Other links go nowhere or provide no contact information (always helpful, that)

My inquiry to Cyclone remains unanswered, but we'll see.... They seem to lack distributors in North America willing to import these machines (if they ARE available)
-might be a stocking/quantity issue, like having to buy a container-full
*notes* -I did see a German manufacturer/distributor with machines looking remarkably similar to Cyclones' offering

[www.recumbents.com]

Try: http://www.electric-bikes.com/betterbikes/e4.html

[ddk]

Try: http://www.electric-bikes.com/betterbikes/e4.html

Hey Warren
I saw that also but I was referring specifically to the Cyclone Premiere recumbent.
i.e http://www.cyclone-tw.com/recumbent.htm

I'm still wondering about the mid-drive but I do like the geared-hub motor I currently have (minimal speed.high efficiency)
I am using a currie/united brushed-motor in addition to the geared-hub motor for negotiating steeper climbs.

While the brushed-motor isn't efficient, it's very small, very powerful and doesn't cog (unlike the geared-hub motor)
So my simple, yet effective solution has been using the PAS for the hub motor. I disconnected the grip throttle from the HMs' controller, re-appropriating it for the MY1018 motors' controller.
Really effective, as I only power up the brushed-motor when needed
So...
The brushed-motor has it's own battery/controller/throttle. It drives a freewheel with a 44-tooth chain gear mounted on the rear axle. Both motors take on any hill I've encountered in my location effortlessly (up to about 18% grades where I sometimes ride)

editttted for the right model number of the motor

[Rassy]

Just saw this thread. That delta trike is the same one I built that big yellow trailer to push. Top speed was just under 30 MPH and felt good, but I don't like riding that fast and wanted my ride to be legal when away from home. The rear wheels are cambered quite a bit, which helps the cornering, but is also part of why the trike is built so heavy. Mine was the 2006 model, and I think the new ones are even heavier duty.

My daughter-in-law has the trike now and she loves it. It just has an old brushed motor in the front wheel now, running from a 48V 15AH Ping. My son found a set of shorter cranks at the community bike place in Eugene and that made a big difference, but than she is under 5'.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Edit: Here's a link to my trike (before the yellow trailer) from back in 2007 when I first joined the forum:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=703&hilit=delta+trike

[ddk]

(Note: not to be confusing, but I was at this time considering purchasing a Sun USS HD delta trike and my comments are based on this assumption)

Hi Rassy

,,,about that trailer, yes... very scary esp. with the standard-delta!

Since I have those motors I considered cutting one away from its' hub and gearing it down o my more accustomed 8-15 mph speeds; but I lack the proper tools. Having it done locally would likely cost more than just buying a new low-speed geared motor. (motor work/gears/etc}

...so it goes.

I like my current ride EXCEPT my personal rear-end demands better seating accommodations.

The emoto is quite comfortable for pedaling. The crank arms looks to be about 150mm.
When I first saw them I was thinking "childs bike" but after using them I realized just how much easier it is on my worn-out body parts.
So...
If I get the HD trike, or the terratrike I intend to harvest the cranks from my emoto to reduce my leg extension and knee/hip motion/angle. Being old sux

The HD usx appeals to me for being able to approach the modifications in stages and its' GVW rating.
step 1. install front hub motor from emoto -using new sensorless controller
step 2. ???
step 3. *build/install solar panel and controllers
step 4. Profit

I wanna go to CA and back on an irregular basis but I don't want to carry the batteries needed for the 60-200 mile trips.

*Using 10mm coroplast and carbon tubing supporting PV cells solves most the energy issues Light, Smallish (if one thinks an elephant is smaller than a whale) and most importantly...
kinda cheep.

It's somewhat funny to me how the scale of economics shifts from one extreme to another but always, in the end, costing more.

[ddk]

ok

ordering the usx HD today

the deciding factor
































fixing tires, which I seem to do a lot of these days

[ddk]

lol-I LIE

nobody who could order the trike was at the store
came back another day for the same-same experience

Waiting for the rains to end I mocked up the seating and pedaling angles half-a**ed measured from the manuals/pictures
my *pedals* - a passive exercise machine (motorized assist)
After an hour I could no longer hold my legs in that position, even resting on the pedals

so....

I bought this thing after a few days/nights research

belize comfort trike.jpg (28.27 KiB) Viewed 1730 times

basically uses the same parts my current trike has (lowest-end junk)
But hopefully the axle won't come pre-bent from the factory, which is my one and only issue with my current trike, besides the uncomfortable seat. (no like tractor seats)

The factory/supplier wanted what I considered an outrageous price for the electrification (lol-they basically toss in a 'kit' of the lowest quality e-bike stuff with the order) so I'm considering my options for a high-speed build approaching the speed of sound, or 15mph, whichever comes first.

(edit-t-t-t-ted to emphasize the crap Belize sells at premium prices.)

[ddk]

story time

Ordered the trike through jazzysports- hoot another interesting store name
kept bothering them with "has it shipped yet?" until it shipped- I'm learning new tricks and I'm an old dog
interjection***what's getting to be a normal, yet not right condition to ordering stuff on the internet is to expect things to 'have some issue'
Drop shippers, pretending to have a warehouse, list their items as being 'in stock' when they're usually just guessing (example- emoto purchase)
jazzy listed their shipping methods as FedEx
the trike shipped from the manufacture/distributor in Canada via DHL- no biggy- except the package stopped being tracked when it reached Portland a couple of days ago

So today, while adjusting solar panels my neighbor casually asked if I'd received the trike yet (been 8-9 days since I ordered it)
I replied in my best goofy voice "I dunno" and we both talked about how we'd never seen a DHL delivery truck in this area before
After concluding the pleasantries, what should pull up right in front of my motorhome but a DHL truck (whenever I 'assume' something I am AWAYS proven wrong... in this case It was OK to be wrong)

seems DHL only delivers on Fridays here.

Changing thoughts:
Two days after I ordered the trike I finally received the axle I needed from Emoto
only took 4 months to get it
such is my mojo/karma/luck/whatever...
Like when I bought a new set of wenches because I thought someone had walked with my wench bag
The same day I picked up the new wenches the missing wench bag found me again.

Back to the trike
whatever comments I made about the emoto being a cheep bike with shoddy mechanicals' ( whilst still holding true)
(good welds though)
The Emoto far outshines the Comfort Tri-Rider Semi-Recumbent tricycle (what a stupid name)
-except for the derailleur and shift index thingy
The Tri-Rider Semi-Recumbent tricycle (forever more referred to as the CTRSR, or CRAPTRIKE) uses the finest in childrens' cheap bicycle components
-except the derailleur
The bearings for the fork, bottom bracket and front wheel came pre-assembled and wrenched so tightly as to assure repid destruction shortly after being put into use.
I actually couldn't turn the fork by hand
the front wheel was nice and solidly locked onto it's axle and the crank arms needed, well, nevermind.

less see
single piece crank-check (child-sized to be sure, but I've found I prefer child-sized cranks -it's an old-age thing)
tiny torque washers for the round front axle made of material slightly thicker then foil -check
shoddy assembly instructions -check

My favorite part however, are the assembly instructions (comes even LESS-assembled then the Emoto, which previously was pretty hard to beat for the number of steps taken to assemble a bike/trike)
I stoped reading after, I believe, step 6
step 6- install the handle grips on the handle bar (o...k)
step 7- install first the left, then right brake handles -lucky for me I decided to ignore step 6 since I'll be adding a throttle
I didn't bother with the brake handle part either.
-I might use one handle because it has a 'parking brake' feature I kinda want. Having only one e-brake is ok by me as I always use front and rear brakes by habit
Emoto and CRAPTRIKE share the same rear band brake, which I find to be very strong and reliable... well, reliable once the axle is modified a bit using with an errant hose clamp keeping the brake drum from shifting it's position
The instructions for assembling the seat was non-existent- although they did provide a nice photo and a figure showing the bolt hole locations
A note about the seat- the seat, which is similar to a chair comes un-assembled ('natch) with the seat and back attached with the heaviest chunk of steel imaginable to create the 'chair'
I was fading rapidly by this time so it didn't immediately occur to me that it would be best to assemble this thing while off the tricycle
-hilarious times with me trying my best to align a bolt through the seat bracket, an over-sized threaded nut (used as a spacer- real high-tech stuff here) and the heavy, unwieldy (and very unbalanced) back bracket. Apparently the developer was striving to save the weight of a couple of bolts when designing this contraption)

another note:
I has an aversion to paypal.
really

so
I ordered a geared-front hub motor kit from highertech bicycles in frisco because I'm still awaiting correspondence from cell-man not just about payment but about ANYTHING. (edit-other people seems to be able to sorrespond with this vendor but I was unable too)
he's apparently too busy to check e-mails etc.
By researching site photographs I determined the Emoto's battery could be sourced from MXUS.
I really like the battery package but alas, I'm now forced by circumstance (and a rapidly diminishing budget) to build my package using R/C LiPo purchased from Hobby King
lucky for me I've yet to purchase a faulty 5s Turnigy pack, but now I'll need four-six more. and more battery chargers etc.
My tests using the MAX 80 battery charger with solar panels is successful, except HK (usa warehouse) is currently out of stock
One of HK's 50w chargers shares the attributes as the MAX 80... except it's 50w and I'm really cutting it close using 3 or 4 80w units, so I'll wait.

ATM the whole solar-powered idea is not going to come together as I want- at least I could upgrade my existing panels with the *much* higher output cells- I believe (by actual tests) I will double the MH (Motor Home) panels' wattage in the same space the current panels exist in.
and finally
eventually I'll have an EMoto trike up for sale with a NEW COMPLETE REAR END LOL- they couldn't be bothered sending only the axle and bearings so they sent the complete assembly; which is, ok

(edited for lack of anything better to do)

[ddk]

assembled the seat and mounted it on the trike.
needs 2 longer bolts then what was supplied but it's too late and I'm too whipped.

Not really knowing where the seat supports needed to be I set them at the '1 up from lowest' position.
I'm a little short of 6' but not by much.
I sat in the seat, placed my feet on the pedals and realized the seat needs lowering, possibly lower then the rear support is manufactured to go.
-Funny how the Emoto had to have the seat/handlebars raised to their highest positions to accommodate my body.

not impressed. This thing wasn't designed as much as picking pieces of parts that 'looked' like they would work, sticking them in a box and calling it a tricycle, err,... a Tri-Rider Comfort Semi-Recumbent 20/24 tricycle. (The colors match, however)

Sometimes I get the feeling I be digging the hole, tossing my money in it and starting a LiPo fire.

[ddk]

I now fit the trike .

Have to make a new back support bracket (hello painted wood)
'tis a purple people seater

[motomech]

I now fit the trike .

Have to make a new back support bracket (hello painted wood)
'tis a purple people seater

"Purple People Eater", LOL. You are dating yourself.

[ddk]

@ motomech- Shep Woolley and PDQ Bach inspired me greatly as a composer of sorts.
I'm a lot older then I think I am.

I note that by looking at my pics it occurs to me that I should have the Village Smithy (really- that's the name of the local welding/fab shop) weld a new bottom bracket tube thingy for a 3-piece crank right at the bend of the lower frame tube.
This will allow me to drop the seat completely into the tube -no more having to put my trust into a 1/2" collar bolt (or my rear end for that matter)

[ddk]

WHOO HOO I HAS A WHEELIE MACHINE

I now know where I'll be mounting the front hub motors' batteries and controller

I'll be adding a new, or used (if I can find a cheap used bike) bottom bracket for a three-piece crank
mounted about where the arrow is pointing

bottom bracket move

bike paint bottom bracket move.JPG (58.81 KiB) Viewed 973 times

(edit- My local fab/weld shop moves the existing bracket to its' forward location- cost $20 bucks for that as he takes pity on confused old people) (Thanks to The Village Smithy)

I got the back support figured out. Slipped it between the axle support tubes, although I loose the 'proper' basket mounting location

simple solution- I LIKE simple solutions!

bike rear support arms.jpg (76.05 KiB) Viewed 973 times

eventually I might even get around to adding the motors

(edited for reality)

[ddk]

as if anyones' actually following this thread.
Today I got the derailleur semi-working and the rear brake hooked up.
Took it for a quick spin and the verdict is...

OMG this thing now turns FAST without tipping
...if I was to guess I'd think 3-4 times faster except I never actually got it to tip! (to be determined)

better picture of the Belize Seat Solution

belize redo sideview.jpg (98.51 KiB) Viewed 960 times

and for your amusement, what the bike was 'sposed to look like.

belize comfort trike.jpg (28.27 KiB) Viewed 960 times

naughty bits

back brace reposition.jpg (59.6 KiB) Viewed 960 times

I kept scrapping the handlebars on my thigh when turning so Mr Simpleton comes up with the clever (no, not really) idea to turn the handlebars upside down
end result- worked 'natch
I should have just reversed the handlebars in the fork in the first place

belize reversed handlebars.jpg (95.27 KiB) Viewed 960 times

The position of the bottom bracket, which I intend to move farther forward, is interesting in that it puts my feets in danger of touching the front wheel

belize redo sideview.jpg (98.51 KiB) Viewed 960 times

Compare that to the more standard position on a sit up trike (emoto to the rescue)

belize vs emoto pedal position.jpg (86.98 KiB) Viewed 960 times

I'm thinking a bent spring fork and new handle bars for a lowrider (old fart on lowrider alert alert alert)

yum... I can see those twisty bits of metal in my minds' eye.

[Rassy]

Well, I am actually "trying" to follow. The pictures help a lot. Of course I think maybe that's the way the seat was supposed to be put together and you just did it wrong the first time.

It sounds like either the pedals are too close to you now or your legs are too long. It would probably be tough to get your legs shortened so moving the crank forward might solve the problem. Another possibility would be shorter cranks. I notice that's a one piece crank, so I bet a lot of those goodwill kid's bikes have the same crank with shorter arms. Maybe shorter crank arms and moving the bottom bracket forward and changing the fork.

[ddk]

hey there Rassy


sorry about the meessy thread
My current solution (edited-done)
-move the bottom bracket shell forward ...

-acquire and install a 'bent fork with support arms' ( ala chopper) moves the front wheel as far as possible while still being able to turn in a reasonable radius. (yes I made that mistake a long time ago, in a far away galaxy) (edittededed-measured 10')

it's my turn to buy lunch (edited-still is)

[amberwolf]

-have a bottom bracket shell for a 3-piece crank welded at the bend in the tubes 150mm crank arms like what's on the emoto.

You dont' have to weld it on. If you cut one off a bike with the right sized downtube/seatube, and leave enough of those two tubes on the BB, you can fishmouth them sufficiently to wrap around the trike's frame tubing and bolt them onto it securely.


Regarding the fork, if you don't change the headtube angle, then either you will have some likely trouble with steering (assuming you use a "bent" fork that puts the wheel that far forward of the pivot point), or you will have a pretty high front end (assuming you use a straight chopper fork so that it raises the whole front end of the trike up to let the headtube be in line with it).

[ddk]

hi amberwolf

By 'fishmouth' you mean splitting the tube from the cut end to the BBtube?
I don unnerstand dis teknical stuffs so well.

Having built a jchopper with 6' extended front forks (giving it a turning radius of about 30 feet)
I know what you mean

I'm considering using one of these

for a 26" wheel

bent spring fork cropped.jpg (3.31 KiB) Viewed 784 times

but I has my eye on this one! (mmm twisty metal bits)

kewl

bent spring fork twistest.jpg (29 KiB) Viewed 784 times

If the turning radius is over 8' I'll have to modify my turning habits
*stands up... picks up the front end by the handlebars and turns LOL*

[ddk]

note
I now know the term "fishmouth" refers to a pipe notch
( which I've always called "a pipe notch")

i lacks the tools and for whatever reasons, junked, used or second-hand bikes are as extinct as dinosaurs in my hometown area
(been around looking for months on end)

threaded steel bottom bracket tubes sell for about $10+fab shop $15-20= cheaper where I don't get to hurt myself so much

[ddk]

Dunno why I'm being so stupid about this (edited-being stupid is my new 'normal')
visited Medford
bought stuff saving bootloads of cash, or at least a wallet-full

[ddk]

well
the pieces of the puzzle are coming together... albeit slowly

-I got the geared hub front wheel kit from highertech bikes today... undamaged
too whipped to work on the trike today
-The guy at the sign shop called to say he was making his pilgrimage to Portland at the end of the week to pick up coroplast for his shop along with a sheet of 10mm for my solar-celled roof project. We found out he had the other types in stock I (might) need (although I wanted to see what the 'clear' coroplast looked like) (wanna be amused)

Rassy was a no-show on Sunday
I could have been out riding the emoto!

Rassy, was that you who almost stopped when I was coming out of the lumbar yard parking lot?

[bgnome]

It sounds like either the pedals are too close to you now or your legs are too long. It would probably be tough to get your legs shortened so moving the crank forward might solve the problem. Another possibility would be shorter cranks. I notice that's a one piece crank, so I bet a lot of those goodwill kid's bikes have the same crank with shorter arms. Maybe shorter crank arms and moving the bottom bracket forward and changing the fork.

how about bolting on a set of kiddie cranks to the top tube? this will let you adjust bottom bracket height easily.
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/kiddy-crank- ... rrency=usd

instead of a new fork, maybe dropping down to a 20" wheel is a possibility?

[Rassy]

Rassy was a no-show on Sunday
I could have been out riding the emoto!

Rassy, was that you who almost stopped when I was coming out of the lumbar yard parking lot?

Uh, I posted somewhere that I would be heading past your place on May 4th (and back again on May 6th). Going on an organized ride down in Ferndale, California with my pedal trike riding buddy Bob. That's about 2 months from now, but if you want to use me for an excuse not to have to ride that's okay with me.

[ddk]

...

how about bolting on a set of kiddie cranks to the top tube? this will let you adjust bottom bracket height easily.
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/kiddy-crank- ... rrency=usd

instead of a new fork, maybe dropping down to a 20" wheel is a possibility?

there's also http://problemsolversbike.com/products/sliding_bottom_bracket_shell/ for ~20 bucks less

sliding bottom bracket shell.jpg (5.37 KiB) Viewed 758 times

But the kiddy thingy looks to be a nice product (except for the price LOL)

My local welding shop is cheap and good and the BB shells are cheap
For 96.75 I could have a series of bottom bracket shells welded to the tubes HaHAHAhahahahahahahhaahaahhh- sorry

-too late for the wheel idea as I just received my motorized 24" wheel
I questioned myself about doing that (using a 20" wheel) but I rejected it because it would change the already poor handling of the trike
-How poor do you ask?
ans:I first assembled the trike as the manufacturer intended, where my legs couldn't extend all the way to the pedal extremes.
I rode it like that to get an idea for a solution (pedal blocks etc)
When I took my hands off the handlebars to see how much the trikes' drift would be the front wheel immediately turned 90 degrees to the left, throwing me off the seat.
Lucky I was only traveling at slightly less than walking speed. (hard to speed up when your feet don't reach the pedals)

who knows? maybe a 20" front wheel would have improved this things' characteristics
but I has an 24" wheel

[ddk]

Rassy was a no-show on Sunday
I could have been out riding the emoto!

Rassy, was that you who almost stopped when I was coming out of the lumbar yard parking lot?

Uh, I posted somewhere that I would be heading past your place on May 4th (and back again on May 6th). Going on an organized ride down in Ferndale, California with my pedal trike riding buddy Bob. That's about 2 months from now, but if you want to use me for an excuse not to have to ride that's okay with me.

may march I gets so cornfuzed...

oh heck I likely will have the trike done by then!