My ultra-sufficient semi-recumbent tricycle project

[ddk]

made my way to Medford today via beautiful HWY 199 through the giant redwoods

stopped at a couple of 'real' bike stores for some sticker shock (you want HOW much for those 150mm crank arms? They made outta platinum or what?)

CK Enterprise had everything I needed EXCEPT the bent-springer fork, as the proprietor had recently run out of stock (but he assured me he would have more next week)
Seeing the fork installed on a bicycle gave me confidence that it will be my salvation to the tire/shoes interaction issue.
It moves the wheel about 3 1/2 inches forward a normal fork's wheel position and lowers the front by 2-3"

Man that place is great!
new 150mm crank- $5
new BB bearings- $5.99
new complete frame (with the BB shell needing surgical removal)- $5.00
Score!

oh and Harbor Freight was having a sidewalk sale so I over-purchased tools.
grinder- $9.95
cutoff wheels- $1.29 each
grinding wheels- 3 for $3.00
small rotary tool kit (formerly owned one-smaller than a dremal- I find it slightly more useful because of it's size)- $9.95
those color-coded deep-well 6-point sockets in metric- $9.95 (ALWAYS wanted a set)
and assorted good buys on other bits and pieces
Unfortunately their 3" bench vise wasn't in stock so I settled on the 2.5" (we'll see how long it takes me to utterly destroy this)
Being just another weak old guy I couldn't deal with the 4" or larger vises and if I can't carry it it just doesn't belong in my outside portable pic-a-nic table shop

I also found a place in town that sells bearings, pillow blocks, machine tool ends, vises etc.
except... The parts are all HUGE.
With a name like "Logger's Supply" who'd guess?
His smallest vise weighs in at about 30kg (his largest at 1/4 ton!)
has GREAT stock including 1" and thicker aluminum bars
2" axles/bearings, 5" bearings, railroad trucks... I almost stopped looking but then...
found a box of 5/8" pillow blocks- Got all excited until I opened a package up to find it contained a pillow block with an eccentric bearing... made for a wobble axle -like I needs more wobble in my trike's axle!
The Emoto came with a wobble axle free of charge (recently replaced -all is well in trikeland once more...)

[ddk]

ok
back to the bike and the ramblings of a cranky old man

HI THERE
I HAS AN NEW EBIKE KIT WITH KNOES INFORMATION (caps lock is cool!)

kins of a standard statement, eh?

I has a game for all you...

My front hub geared brushless motor I was led to believe might be sensorless (my preference for my reasons) is sensored.
why did I assume otherwise?
-this assumption was made by reading Highertechs' webpage which refereed me to AmpedBikes' webpage for a (poor with lack of any real technical information) description of what I was supposedly purchasing.

ok- sensored motors work, in fact it's not some a super calamity OMG teh WORLD is wrong issue

this is the game

I has a new controller (no ID labels on the cables 'natch)
it has this pretty red button on one end
I wonders what this button is?
*pushes on it*
Ooh- it's a switch!
I wonders what it switches?
*ponders*
if I connect a battery to the (unmarked) connector will the switch:
1. do nothing?
2. turn the controller off/on?
3. reset some weird computerz stuffs
4. remake human civilization (what's left of it) as we know it?

I'm hoping it's #4

here's the much-needed picture

I wonder what this does?

bike controller.jpg (26.2 KiB) Viewed 587 times

perhaps your guess might be more worthy than mine?



the correct answer to the pop quiz is #2.
if you chose #2 please award yourself one cookie

(edited for the heck of it)

[ddk]

more pictures to help your guessing

bike controller label.jpg (16.6 KiB) Viewed 582 times

the picture above represents the piss-poor language translation between Chinese and English (or your own native speak)
we, the BUYERS of your products, have to deal with!
this label is stuck on the controller
I'm gonna assume that translated properly, the bottom line should say something about the controller having regen capability (just the ticket for a motor that has a freewheel LOL)
The word "MUTE" in that same line may or may not give me an idea of what the RED SWITCH might effect (see: above post by me)

and then there's always my favorite
WOULD IT BEHOOVE THE SUPPLIERS OF THESES SO CALLED 'KITS' TO AT LEAST PROVIDE THE OPPOSITE-GENDER CONNECTORS?
really
come on!
we're talking a less than a dollar part that I won't be able to find locally so instead, I get to pay some extortionist "shipping and handling" fee to get the opposing connector for this (unlabeled but likely) controller on/off port
I DO want to turn the controller off before I connect my battery because I DON"T like sparkles and zaps so I WILL install an (unprovided) switch
my other 'option' is to replace the connector with one I can purchase locally, thus voiding any warranty (assuming the controller even has a *real* warranty)

the connector

bike controller control off on connector.jpg (50.49 KiB) Viewed 582 times

end of rant

[ddk]

it'll be at least a week before the weather clears around my parts of the world
I ordered the stuff I need for my jackshaft.-had to call it in, as my browser indicated their webpage was only secure via one-way communication (mentioned it to the proprietor)
-talked about what I needed to build my jackshaft
-pointed out some errors regarding 'parts description' on their webpage vs. our phone conversation
-parts ship tomorrow ...I should receive them Friday.

my, that was simple... maybe I should just forgo using the internet as a purchasing medium altogether and just phone in my orders?
is that how you guys contacted cellman?

NOTE: I have never experienced what I've currently experiencing with (edit-insert the word "Some" online vendors) on-line vendors before I started my recent project(s) in alternative transportation

last edited by ddk on 6/66/6666. edited 666 times

[ddk]

Since it's storming outside I continue
I own and ride an E-Moto Trike ...formally sold on-line thru various vendors and possibly still in stock at Menard's stores
-don't have a Menard's store in my area so I'm making an assumption.

I made some unjustified accusations about the unworthiness of the trike (well, some of it WAS justified- although finally made good upon)
-most of my problems stemmed from the fact I bought the last one stocked by the warehouse/distributor in 2011
The Trike came with a bent rear axle- likely warped when welding on the drive wheel hub engagement thingy.

The trike was rideable, although a bit wobbly

-so I rode it and started quizzing the warranty service shop about parts replacement (November 2011)
Come December- still no parts and the wobbly axle is starting to take the fun away
I experienced these problems directly caused by the wobble:
-gear cluster shifting in position on the axle causing the chain to slip off
-brake drum shifting in position on the axle causing, well, no brakes! ahhhhahahahhhhhhhhhhhh!!

I started (and continue to) carry a complete set of tools necessary to effect repairs on the road
NOTE: the Trike's multi-tool set fit NOTHING on the actual trike!
...at one time as I was riding the axle key for the brake drum fell into the tube (see pic)

0000 TUBE.jpg (221.16 KiB) Viewed 570 times

causing no brakes ...but suddenly BRAKES (the key jammed between the axle's keyway slot and the tube)
-more calls to the shop-
completely disassembled the trike's rear end (again) removing the axle from the tube bearings to retrieve the key
-this is where I (finally) figured out the axle - a rather standard part available through ebay vendors etc, had lot's of little modifications to make it compatible with the Trike's somewhat unique wheel hubs (more on this later on)
January had the axle problems happening once every couple of days, until I got the not-so-clever idea of using hose clamps to keep things in place (with help from forum members here to jog my creative juices)
-worked a treat!

however with no support from the shop (yet) and my personal rear-end complaining about the seat (let's not get TOO personal) prompted me to start THIS HERE PROJECT. YUP

and of course the same day I received my project tricycle I FINALLY received the Trike's warranty replacement tricycle assembly (dimmit)
while I set about replacing the tricycle assemblies it struck me curious as to why the *new* assembly should be so much lighter than the *old and wobbly* assembly ( I likes the word "wobbly")
The new assembly also lacked those little bits and modifications the original assembly had.
the old assembly was of *ALL STEEL CONSTRUCTION* as opposed to the replacement assembly's aluminum tubes
hm mm

anyway I thought I bought a turkey ...but now I have a falcon
and for an inexpensive (well, relatively) electric-motored tricycle with a 6-gear derailleur and lithium battery, I now consider the E-Moto Trike to be a best buy -in comparison to e-trikes within the same narrow price range of $900-$1500
..and I didn't has to build it
too bad they don't seem to be importing anymore of these things
-likely because MY Trike(tm) may not have been the only "first-gen turkey"(soon-to-be-a-tm)

[ddk]

well... off to the village smithy we go!
The first time I trailered the project trike over there I apparently caused a bit of a local controversy (WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?) (oh, I know what that is) (c) Steve Martin

the EMoto always gets its' share of curiosity amongst the driving-public and today, while explaining what a hub motor is and no, the battery isn't the motor, it's a battery, the person exclaimed something about seeing me towing the project trike (further amusements etc) (the frivolity never ends...)

after waiting out a storm, I removed all the unnecessary stuff from the trike in preparation to have the bottom bracket shell relocated on the frame
...but alas the village smithy was closed by the time I returned (he keeps his own hours LOL)
so I took this picture

[ddk]

h hi

got a question or any electronically knowledgeable folk on this board.

On an average controller: About how much current do you think the "throttle" +5v pin will source?

wanna build my own cruise control, since the controller came without a PAS port (lol)
and it would be nice if say, 15-20ma of current was available at the +5v line (to power a couple of devices and an led)

gonna ask this question in a separate thread in "technical"

[ddk]

terry @highertechbikes
"We do need some work on the manual, especially for the new geared kits. The switch on the controller is the main power switch. The current instructions were written for the Aotema kit which includes an extra packet with cable ties and some shrink tubing. I will send that to you today and start including that in all kits from now on. Any other questions, let me know.

so there you have it...
Both my guesses were wrong (as usual)

[ddk]

h hi

got a question or any electronically knowledgeable folk on this board.

On an average controller: About how much current do you think the "throttle" +5v pin will source?

wanna build my own cruise control, since the controller came without a PAS port (lol)
and it would be nice if say, 15-20ma of current was available at the +5v line (to power a couple of devices and an led)

gonna ask this question in a separate thread in "technical"

I has an answer:

from terry@highertechbikes]...On the PAS, The smaller 15A controller supports it but the larger 20A controller does not, which you have. I can swap that out if you want.
Regarding the throttle current, I am not sure but I would think 20mA would be fine. Usually there is a 74L05 regulator that's rated for 100mA and the controller circuitry probably uses half that.

being a retired electronics design engineer this actually is all the info I need
My intention is simple with the result being a 'push on' throttle being turned off by one on the brake handle switches.
I'm thinking a simple cmos 555 (two of these) hooked up as a set-reset flip flop would suffice, as the truth-table can be adjusted for all situations
speaking of flip flops I accidentally typed "cmos flipflop" into my search engine and the results wre amusing
to wit

JK flipflop.jpg (12.67 KiB) Viewed 462 times

I'd really, REALLY like a flip flop in a stylish design

[ddk]

the sun came out again after a few days of stormy weather so...

time to check out stuff.
I HAVE committed to a plan!
no mo' mr. wishy-washy I bought stuff

explanation of my reasons:
neither the Emoto or the project trike can shift through all 6 gears.
It has to do with the location of the derailleur arm mounting bracket, which isn't close enough to the gear cluster.
The Emoto can only be adjusted for 4 gears whilst the project trike is limited to 5 gears. Both can't use the lowest gear sprocket.
So in an effort to stay under budget I decided to use the 36tooth sprocket on the gear cluster as the second motor's drive point
Yes, this does drive the pedals -but only while the motor is operating (only on steep hills over 6%)
The gearing is calculated to drive the pedals between 60-70 RPM (1st and 2nd on the derailleur gear cluster) which is quite comfortable for me.
I'm re-using as many add-on parts I had on the Emoto as possible, leaving the stock Emoto intact.
So...
-new front hub motor - same as the Emoto or, an Aotema geared-front hub wheel purchased through Highertechbikes (previously talked about) They either mistakenly supplied me with a 22amp controller or they gifted it to me because their web page had errors.
I will use the 22amp controller just to see what difference it provides on those long-ish steeper hills in my area- Afterwords, maybe they'll exchange it for the 15amp controller, which includes the PAS port the 22 amp controller lacks.
Because I have my solution for hills with motor #2, the MY1016Y.
-old but perfectly functional MY1016Y off the Emoto Hitch (motor #2 is a Currie 450w brushed motor with gear reduction)
-44 tooth sprocket mounted on a freewheel with a 5/8" freewheel adapter (Sick Bike parts)
-the HITCH (because I can always use a hitch point)
-new parts for a new jackshaft consisting of a 5/8" axle with a full slotted keyway , bearings for said axle, 13 tooth sprocket w/5/8" bore and keyway slot for 40/41 chain (if you read their webpage you might assume the sprockets come with no keyway slot... but they do) bearing hanger plates w/weldable mounting brackets for the bearings (I actually intended to make my own plates but the place I bought this stuff from had pretty good plates for ~$15 a pair) (but I now own a 1 3/8" drill bit I no longer need LOL) and various bits to make things go together like collar stops and key stock. Bought all of it from ombwarehouse.com (The omb stands for "old minibikes")
Via a phone order, as my browser indicated purchasing through their webpage might be less than totally secure.

As soon as the weather is nice, I'll deliver the frame and mounting brackets to the welder guy

Today I stripped the project trike's frame of everything I could
I checked where the best position might be for the jackshaft, temporarily mounting the plates allowing for the 44-tooth sprocket's clearance
I used my *new* $9.95 Harbor Freight grinder to (seriously) grind down the 13-tooth sprocket teeth to a size that accepts BMX bike chain.
(I might grind it down a little more so I can use multi-speed bike chain)



pictures

my pick-a-nic table workshop

checking clearence.jpg (65.16 KiB) Viewed 434 times

highest- qualery workmanship

13 tooth sprocket.jpg (41.44 KiB) Viewed 434 times

edited for goofy spelln errorrrrz

[ddk]

today... on a dark and stormy day, the ddk follies continues on

jackshft bracket welding done!

i haz sum grindnz 2 doo

jackshaft welds.jpg (22.81 KiB) Viewed 395 times

bottom bracket re-location done!

i see a bb and I wanna paint it black

BB relocated.jpg (22.49 KiB) Viewed 395 times

cost $40
but I didn't have to buy a new tig welder with which I would have likely burned through the tubes LOL

waiting for the next break in the weather...
and I've yet to order my fork... it seems odd, but most the online community that sells lowrider bike parts have been victims of various stuff (too many, to different... stuffs)
but is always a reminder that you have to be careful before dealing with on-line stores you know naught of.
For my own reasons I refuse to use e bay or p ay (an additional pocket) pal... which limits my sources
so I might have to wait until my neighbor makes his next foray to Medford in a couple of weeks

[ddk]

a lil bit off topic (as if I've ever stayed on topic) for you cargo trailer pullers

A couple of weeks ago I was browsing a local auto parts store, semi-considering buying a 1 7/8" ball hitch to replace my bolt and nut affair on THE HITCH because the bolt and nut affair is actually a PAIN to use (although it does the job)
anyway I ran across an old and dusty package containing the cutest little 1" ball EVER.
weighs about 1/2 what the 1 7/8" ball does (maybe because it's about 1/2 the size ya think?)
So I brought it up to the counter and asked "do you gots the other half of this here ball thingy (referring to the receiver for the trailer tongue)(and I actually do talk like that)
The counter person looked in his catalogs, made a few phone calls, asked for my number (no, not what you're thinking) and called me a few hours later explaining the manufacturer was either out of business or his company no longer did business with them -rats

anyhoo while surfing the interwebs this morn' I accidentally found a source, likely the source and they're not even that far from me
http://www.messengermfg.com/mini_hitches.html although reading their company history somewhat explains why the auto parts store might not carry their product no mo'.
ef'n you reads between the lines

haven't done my usual webby detective stuff yet but I thought someone, besides myself might be interested in a 1" ball hitch assembly for hauling heavy stuffs in 'murica with their light weight transportation device

[Rassy]

Very interesting. That big yellow trailer was hooked to my old delta trike with a 1" ball. I got the ball from a trailer supply. They are used on stabilizers between trailers and tow vehicles. Looked all over for the other part and never could find one. Made one that worked out of a piece of 1 1/4" steel pipe with a pair of holes on each side to accept hitch pins to keep it on the ball. Worked okay, but I wasn't very proud of it.

[Rassy]

I've also used a steering knuckle from a lawn tractor with 3/8" studs. It worked good, but required a wrench to disconnect the trailer. I replaced it with the same sized ball and socket with a spring loaded slip collar for disconnect. These are made to hook a trolling motor to the main outboard so that they steer together. This worked great for a lighter two wheel pusher trailer, probably about 130 pounds total with sla's back then.

[ddk]

@Rassy
Big Yellow Trailer's hub motors don't seem to like going slow, but I do, so until I get around to building a more suitable cargo trailer, I've been using the Big Yellow Trailer (TM), un-powered to carry heavy and/or bulky items.
In this way I don't have to use the MH for transport.

I likely will never get around to rewinding the Big Yellow Trailer's MC hub motors but it makes for a a great trailer with those MC hubs/tires.
-I'd prefer a ball hitch or a ring and clamp hitch over other, more bicycle-centric solutions... which is why I've hap-haphazardly looked around or something suitable. I initially used an old tie-rod end but I quickly destroyed it. Currently using a 5/8" hardened nut/bolt.

Another day of solid rain meant I sat on my rear and successfully did nothing useful, other than take a long nap because my interwebs was cranky

I did manage to order the replacement fork from Chubbycruisers.com (might have spelled that wrong) They're physically located in CA
-in this way I don't need to bother my neighbor. (think: old guy on simsons "I don't want to be a bother.")
The fork was shipped today via FedEx so I'm hoping for Friday delivery

(edited for no reason whatsoever)

[ddk]

the sun broke through long enough for me to do a quick and ugly paint job on the grind spots

ugli brown primer

belize redo1.jpg (73.33 KiB) Viewed 436 times

jackshaft allows for any type of power source

belize jackshaft.jpg (36.19 KiB) Viewed 436 times

new bb shell welds

belize bb relocation.jpg (30.17 KiB) Viewed 436 times

FedEx indicates my fork gets delivered tomorrow
Hopefully tomorrow's weather will allow me the pleasure of assembling the whole trike. (sans electrical)

[ddk]

No Joy- the fork didn't arrive on time so I won't receive it until Monday

oh well, started reassembling what I could.

notice the mounting brackets for the jackshaft (center)

OK, so it's a 142mm crank LOL

5 5 inch crank arm mounted.jpg (105.08 KiB) Viewed 424 times

having the rear done I could measure out and start construction for the new motor mount
good gravy inflation is strong! U-bolts I purchased in December cost twice as much in March
Notice my super-duper precision measurements for the u-bolt slots, allowing for +/- 3/4 chain link

sharpie power

super high precision cutting guide.jpg (37.8 KiB) Viewed 424 times

and finally I don't know how I missed this, but I failed to properly isolate he aluminum motor mounts I'd added to The Hitch, although I used stainless steel screws I forgot to use the plastic isolation pad
nothing my wire wheel brush can't get rid of but I'll have to either re-treat The Hitch, or paint it (thinking canary yellow with more brown primer to help ugli-fy the new trike)

rust-it never sleeps

The Hitch.jpg (75 KiB) Viewed 424 times

[ddk]

another day
more whales to watch
grebes doing their mating rituals
and ddk building his tricycle
sometimes taking one step forward, two steps back

motor mount done (needs end cuts cleanup and painting)
jackshaft mounted (after some surgery on the trike's frame)

motor mount location tested

motor temp mount.jpg (60.21 KiB) Viewed 416 times

Temporarily mounting the MY1018 found this to be in the way

this thing

this thing.jpg (35.54 KiB) Viewed 416 times

so a little help from my grinder with a cutting wheel and that thing is like, gone man.

gone

gone gone gone.jpg (66.64 KiB) Viewed 416 times

I successfully mounted the jackshaft and can now trim the axle ends

we gots sum cutten tooo dues

jackshaft temp mounted.jpg (41.61 KiB) Viewed 416 times

[ddk]

I got a new fork, as previously discussed.
The epitome of 1930's high tech engineering, the fork is everything I expected... and less
Needing some minor modifications, such as fender mounts, side-pull v-brake points and re-drilling side arm supports for clearing the motor's axle, the fork otherwise fits over the front hub motor-equipped wheel effortlessly.

I'm also considering making/having made torque arms. But the fork, constructed of relatively heavy steel tubes should indicate it's possible faults before catastrophic failure i.e I might not bother with the additional work **as he eyes the dropouts on his pink monstrosity's frame**

Assuming the fog will blow over today, I'd love to move all the bike parts/tooling and whatnot outside and off my stove top etc. After which, I shall breakfast.

[ddk]

still waiting for the rain to clear off
-record amounts of water have fallen/falls causing flooded areas and mudslides cutting off roads and highways (waves @ rassy)

I had an emphany today
I'm inclined to use an inclinometer to control the MY1018 motor, as that IS it's only use; climbing slopes the Aotoma geared front hub motor will fail at.
Tilt switches, not of the mercury type, are inexpensive like, $1.50 :8
- where I only have to design some hysterious logic to create a ramp-up and hold for the MY1018's controller
-end results should be hysterical.

when I retired I promised myself to NEVER get involved with electronics or mechanical endeavors for the rest of my life.
Too easy it is, to break a promise.
-esp. when faced with the fact that what I want, nobody makes.
what I need, nobody cares about
and so on

The sun peeked out for about 20 minutes between storms giving me enough time to make a dash to the store and back on the Emoto.
As soon as I returned, so did the rain.
It's so incredibly windy today that riding a 4% grade downhill found me having to use the motor, otherwise I was stopped in my tracks. downhill. on a tricycle.
I am so bored looking at my contentiously growing mountain of tools and assorted bicycle parts

tools with fork.jpg (67.16 KiB) Viewed 372 times

[ddk]

supposedly no rain forecast for the next 24 hours
I'll attempt to fit the fork and front wheel to the trike.


just to clear up any misunderstanding of my 'hill assist' (and more likely because I was playing with inkscape (TM) )

I made a poorly made diagram of how it works (might wurk LOL)

oh, wow

STOKE THE MONKEY.jpg (13.27 KiB) Viewed 366 times

[ddk]

got the chain on (not in this pic)
currently in 'whipped' mode

I think trike looks pretty kool, until I sii on it reducing the cool factor by 420%

[ddk]

2nd, or 3rd wind
finds the whole front motor kit (sans batteries) installed along with the handlebar stuff and the all-important chain

suddenly, mirrors
mirrors everywhere

dual mirrors.jpg (72.47 KiB) Viewed 343 times

chain chain chain
chain's a fool

chained up.jpg (85.08 KiB) Viewed 343 times

bigger tie straps rated for 350# pull
ain't accidentally dropping off somewhere LOL

tie strapped.jpg (61.79 KiB) Viewed 343 times

Velcro replaces zip ties FTW

velcro the best zip tie.jpg (46.4 KiB) Viewed 343 times

[ddk]

another rainy day...
otherwise I would be able to test the trike up our local hills today, as all I've left to do for the temp assembly is add the rear supports (two chunks of wooden 1x4 bolted to the tricycle assembly) for my sbs case to hold the batteries.
Will 8 amps make 'the big dif'?
-at least for today I'll still not know.

btw, the turning radius for the trike is right at 10' or, taken from Sun's specs, the same as a USS whatchamacallit trike.
...what limits the steering is that the fork arms make contact with the head tube LOL.
The suspension actually does 'something' but I'm not sure what the real effect will be until I ride downhill after a storm, crunching over broken branches and misplaced pine cones

[Rassy]

Yep, I noticed yesterday that your new fork was going to increase your turning radius. One of the nice things about delta trikes with OS steering is their ability to be turned around in their length.

You can still turn a lot sharper than my tadpole. You'll get used to it.